Carlton dont know how to do a rebuild cos theyve never done one.
Poaching good players from other teams by paying them illegally isnt a rebuild.
Poaching good players from other teams by paying them illegally isnt a rebuild.
Saints rebuild vs Carlton rebuild
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They are going to get worse before they get better.
Why do we even care
Persevering Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Let them rot?
Not sure where you've pulled this from. We started the year with the 10th oldest list. Our round 23 side was actually almost a year younger on average than your round 23 side.
In terms of the rebuild, yes we have a long way to go but we are doing it properly this time. The club acknowledges we could be 4-5 years away from top 4, and are giving SOS and Bolts plenty of time for the slow burn.
To suggest we are not 'competitve' is also ridiculous. The win against Geelong, along with close losses to WC, Sydney and Hawthorn would suggest otherwise.
Air King
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Article from the roar this year:
"Despite being in the early stages of a rebuild, Carlton have 17 players on their list in the prime age of 25-30 – tied with West Coast and Port Adelaide for the most in the league.
If you expand that to all players older than 25, the Blues’ veterans number 18, equal fourth with Hawthorn and Port Adelaide, and behind only West Coast (19), North Melbourne (20) and Fremantle (21) – with the exception of the Blues, all of those teams have premiership aspirations."
As I said the Blues has plenty of hurt in front of them before being a competitive ie top 8 team again.
- Oct 9, 2014
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The problem is I just don't know how you guys shoot up the ladder, your youngsters will improve a little next year sure, but a lot of your early season form was on the back of your stars playing well, who obviously aren't improving as they're already very good players, and your middle tier players playing out of their skins, if one of those two things don't happen from 2017 to about 2019, you'll go backwards, by the time your kids have caught up your stars (obviously apart from Cripp, Docherty and by that time Weitering) will be very close to done, Simpson probably isn't far away already being 32. Needless to say to get a solid rebuild and not just rely on top end talent you'll need a fair few decent picks in the next 2-3 drafts, and unless you bite the bullet and trade out one of your stars, I just can't see how this happens, no one outside of Cripps, Docherty, Murphy, Gibbs and maybe Kreuzer would have any trade value at all, so really unless you do a full rebuild and let stars go ala us and the dogs, I just can't see you guys stockpiling enough talent to shoot up in the next 5-6 years, puts a lot of pressure on curnow mckay cunningham (obviously Weitering will be so I haven't included him in that) picks 5 and 23 this year to become stars, because those 2 picks each year won't be enough unless you strike gold every time, can't see you dropping to bottom 2-3 territory with the core group you have so I estimate the picks to generally be in that area
Judd , Cooked.
Murphy, 29 , Nearly Cooked.
Gibbs, 27 probably was ready to take out of the oven 2 years ago.
Kreuzer: Half Baked.
Kreuzer completely cooked and fried
Judd , Cooked.
Murphy, 29 , Nearly Cooked.
Gibbs, 27 probably was ready to take out of the oven 2 years ago.
Kreuzer: Half Baked.
St.Kilda in front at this stage. No question.
Carlton does have a long way to go but the one thing that does please me is for the young leaders coming through.
Players Docherty, Cripps, Weitering are all 'captain' material and are as good a quality trio of players as there may be.
Very pleased with Charlie Curnow, Silvagni, Plowman, McKay, Byrne and Cuningham. All look like AFL quality players and did, as far back as this years pre-season.
That's 9 players 22 or younger that I have a lot of confidence in. Nowhere near enough but not a terrible platform either.
Could put some others here but haven't got the same level of confidence about them.
Everyone gets excited about their youth but I don't care of all players are 45, if Premierships are rolling in......and that's what matters.
Carlton does have a long way to go but the one thing that does please me is for the young leaders coming through.
Players Docherty, Cripps, Weitering are all 'captain' material and are as good a quality trio of players as there may be.
Very pleased with Charlie Curnow, Silvagni, Plowman, McKay, Byrne and Cuningham. All look like AFL quality players and did, as far back as this years pre-season.
That's 9 players 22 or younger that I have a lot of confidence in. Nowhere near enough but not a terrible platform either.
Could put some others here but haven't got the same level of confidence about them.
Everyone gets excited about their youth but I don't care of all players are 45, if Premierships are rolling in......and that's what matters.
Yeah fair assessment.
SOS definitely has a mandate to get early picks and/or trade them for talented players in their early 20s. Tuohy and Everitt (not for much) may get traded this off-season for picks. Perhaps Kreuzer and Gibbs in the coming years. SOS could also acquire earlier picks this year by trading future picks (possibly acquired in trades) with the expansion clubs. They'll have a glut of 2016 1st and 2nd rounders of which all can't be used and they'll value future picks more, benefiting us such as Melbourne last year.
It's also important to consider that early picks are those used to get the superstars of your next premiership side but getting value out of later picks, rookies, and not so obvious trades and free agents is just as, if not, more important. Our 2011 side had quite a few top-line guns but not much depth. The current Richmond team very similar. Both of these sides didn't make it far when it counted.
Look at the value Hawthorn have got from the likes of Breust, Poppy, Hale, Suckling, among others.You guys have done really well with Membrey and Bruce. I think the 2010 Collingwood premiership side had 8 rookies or something.
No doubt you guys are at least 2 years ahead, but I'm happy to give us plenty of time with Bolton and SOS at the helm and I'm confident we can do it properly.
- Aug 27, 2013
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We are 10th according to champion data
http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne...-each-clubs-list-based-on-age-and-experience/
When you look at the older players on the list and how important they are to the team its very minimal. We couldn't drop 20 players off the list at once, thats just madness. It will be a 2 year process of replacing them all.
Cam Wood(29) - didnt play a game
Andrew Walker(30) - struggled to hold his spot
Michael Jamo(30) - Hardly played
Dennis Armfield(29) - 15 games. Not important and easily replaced
Dale Thomas(29) - Cooked, doesnt do anything, shouldnt be playing
Same Rowe(28) - Last legs - Hanging in there while the others develop
Simon White(28) - Big body? - Easily replaced
Andrejs Everritt(27) - Potato - SOSOS taken over
Its not like these guys are the reason we were winning games this year. It was the younger players with Simmo & Gibbs
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sammm
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Saying Saints are ahead of the Blues is as obvious as saying the Bulldogs were ahead of the Saints in rebuilds in 2013.
Carlton are two years behind. Need to look in 2018
Carlton are two years behind. Need to look in 2018
Blinkers there.
Younger player like Gibbs?
Daisy is 29y2m
Murph is 29y1m
If you rebuilt really, really well you might make Top 4 in 4-5 years. So these two will not be part of such a push. Moreso as to date your rebuild is underwhelming.
Gibbs is 27y5m would be on last legs by then too.
Kreuzer is 27y3m and with his injury history he will not have a lengthy career. He is not part of your future.
No the Blues in terms of a rebuild are way way off. You still lack enough really young players (ie Gibbs is not young!!!!!) and will go backwards before you go forwards yet. In addition a lot of the younger players that you have brought in recent seasons are ordinary. The class of Cripps blinds many to this. To rebuild well you need a core of young players that will rise together as they mature. The Blues do not yet have such a group of good young plaers.
Dr Spaceman
Brownlow Medallist
I thought there was a bit of that happening when Lyon was at the Saints too.
Some clubs seem to think... "we need a tall forward, we will simply take the best tall forward we can get from the draft "
However some draft's have bugger all tall forwards, others have bugger all mids etc etc.
Its OK to draft according to need, but assessing best available should also be part of the value.
If the difference between best available and the "need" is too great, forget about the need.
Which is why i get really frustrated at people wanting to trade Bruce for Jack Riewoldt. It is simply not that easy to find good tall forwards. Carlton would not be using Casboult and Jones if they had options.
Will never happen.
Who would want to do that? Bruce is a gun, we'll take him off you.
- Aug 27, 2013
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Read the post again. I didnt say he was young. I said it was the young players with him & simmo. You dont trade all your experience. Wouldve been like the saints getting rid of Rooey, Fisher and Joey aswell, you would have been an absolute rabble. You need some experience to bring the youth through the rebuild. I stated Daisy was cooked and easily replaced aswell, again did you genuinely not read it? We looked at trading Kruezer last year? Core of McKay, C.Curnow, Docherty, Cripps, Weitering, Plowman, SOJ, Byrne isn't a bad start. I also didnt state we would move forward next year. All your points are invalid. I think we will be around the same mark again. We are 1 year into a 3 year rebuild
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