Schoenmaker Vs Rance

[cash]

Who would you pick?

Have gone with Rance.

 

[Monkey King]

Rance really started to show signs last season; his Round 21 game against Sydney stood out from the ones I watched. Schoenmaker seems to struggle with his hands - dropping marks and fumbling - and at times has poor foot disposal. Not sure he'll even make it at this rate, especially if Roughhead takes CHB. He's young though, but I'd be taking Rance easily at this stage.

 

[The Goon]

Rance at this stage. But he is a year older with only last year as a breakout, so Schoenmaker could catch up no doubt.

 

[Igloo]

Rance. He played some very good football last year.

 

[ManOfClay]

Haven't seen much of Rance, only last season when he looked completely out of his depth against Will Minson who was resting up forward. Minson's four goals that day made Rance look pretty average.

In the end, Shoenmakers has had his fair share of dud games, too. My Hawthorn mate was actually ready to kill him late last year.

nil all draw?(that is harsh. I'll go Rance because I've seen Shoenmakers get demolished or have a shocker regularly).

 

[Hodgepodge]

Schoenmakers is a scapegoat, no doubt about it. He can have a great game but people will continue to remember his errors, probably because of the timing of them and also because he had a reputation for disposal errors in his first two seasons.

His disposal and decision making has gotten to a very good level now, and there's few CHBs who rebound as well as him.

I would like to see some more commitment to the spoil, and probably needs to improve his marking as well.

Schoenmakers.

 

[Brown n Gold]

Schoenmakers cops it left right and centre and every one of his mistakes is highlighted by all and sundry.

Shoey has played several very good games, kept Travis Cloke goalless at the end of 2010, shut pods down when he had torn Gibbo a new arse last year. Rance looks like he is developing nicely however. Physically a beast but doesn't seem to get his body positioning right that often.. Franklin made him look pretty second rate in the 3rd Nab cup game.

 

[hawkman]

Schoenmakers cops it left right and centre and every one of his mistakes is highlighted by all and sundry.

Shoey has played several very good games, kept Travis Cloke goalless at the end of 2010, shut pods down when he had torn Gibbo a new arse last year. Rance looks like he is developing nicely however. Physically a beast but doesn't seem to get his body positioning right that often.. Franklin made him look pretty second rate in the 3rd Nab cup game.

He isn't the first that has happened to.

Schoenmakers also beat Sam Reid twice last year as well but his problem is that the errors he makes are so bad that they really stand out

 

[juss]

Schoenmakers cops it left right and centre and every one of his mistakes is highlighted by all and sundry.

Shoey has played several very good games, kept Travis Cloke goalless at the end of 2010, shut pods down when he had torn Gibbo a new arse last year. Rance looks like he is developing nicely however. Physically a beast but doesn't seem to get his body positioning right that often.. Franklin made him look pretty second rate in the 3rd Nab cup game.

True, but as another poster said, Franklin has done that to a lot of defenders. There's no shame in being beaten by Franklin, most defenders are beaten by him on a weekly basis. To Rance's credit, he has beaten Goodes, J Brown and J Pod to name a few.

I like Rance, saw a lot of good things in 2011, but I'm far from calling him a lock yet. Many players have one very good season then fall away. He needs to back it up again this year. FWIW, he started last season pretty poorly aswell I think. Certainly he came on towards the middle and his end of season form was his best footy.

 

[Bardo State]

The only thing stopping Shoenmakers is confidence. He actually played many good games last year yet people label him a 'dud' because of 4-5 errors across the season. They were pretty bad errors but he is a baby in KPD terms. His disposal is actually one of his greatest weapons. It is his decision making when in deep defence that has sometimes let him down.

Unfortunately everyone seems to judge him on two games.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

TBH I have hardly seen either play, but going off what I've heard Rance has a break out year

 

[Lance Uppercut]

difficult poll, as I don't rate either of them at all.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Rance is ahead but Shoenmakers cops more crap than he deserves to be honest. Yes he made an error at a vital time but it's pretty frustrating that people only remember this and don't remember that he was actually having a really good game before that incident.

I'll revisit this at the end of the year before I vote. Currently Rance but I haven't seen enough of him to vote.

 

[cash]

Last time I saw him (edit: Talking about shoenmakers), he tried to take a mark and the ball bounced of his face and opposition crumbed a goal.

Rance has a big win.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Last time I saw him (edit: Talking about shoenmakers), he tried to take a mark and the ball bounced of his face and opposition crumbed a goal.

Rance has a big win.

So you start a thread just to denigrate a Schoenamkers. Classy stuff.

 

[MikesTop50]

Rance for me, much better defensively and better kick.

Shoenmakers hasn't got it in him, crumbles far too much under pressure.

 

[theflea]

So you start a thread just to denigrate a Schoenamkers. Classy stuff.

you cant be serious.

pot. kettle. black.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

you cant be serious.

pot. kettle. black.

Not once have I started a polls thread, where I stated my opinion in the op. Not once. Not once have I started a polls thread, where I have said something like

"Last time I saw him (edit: Talking about shoenmakers), he tried to take a mark and the ball bounced of his face and opposition crumbed a goal.

Rance has a big win."

So the op thinks Rance is miles in front but starts a poll anyway? That's something I would never do.

Sure, I might have strong opinions on some things, that some people might disagree with, but I only ever start polls between two players who are evenly matched. Rance was always going to win this poll by a mile, there doesn't need to be a thread about it. I know Rance is the better player, you know Rance is the better player and so does the op.

 

[cash]

you cant be serious.

pot. kettle. black.

nail. hammer. head.

 

[cash]

So you start a thread just to denigrate a Schoenamkers. Classy stuff.

Was responding to someone who said his mistakes standout.
Not sure what you are upset about emo.
Rance did have a big win.

 

[HARKER]

Schoenmakers cops it left right and centre and every one of his mistakes is highlighted by all and sundry.

That's true and the mould is hard to break when it has been set.
The kids got talent, so hope he has the capacity to stick through the tough times.
Fortunately for Hawthorn, he doesn't get quite the ribbing from his supporters the way some other clubs turn on their own.

I voted Rance though, but feel I'll be wrong.

 

[HARKER]

Not sure what you are upset about emo.

He's not emo.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Geez, Rance easily in this poll.

 

[Bardo State]

That's true and the mould is hard to break when it has been set.
The kids got talent, so hope he has the capacity to stick through the tough times.
Fortunately for Hawthorn, he doesn't get quite the ribbing from his supporters the way some other clubs turn on their own.

I voted Rance though, but feel I'll be wrong.

This is a fair assesment.

He is actually quite a good player when playing across half back and pushing up to the wing. It's when he is forced deep that critical errors can occur. This is one of the reasons he played so well on Reid. They tried to use his athleticism to put him at CHF pushing onto the wing but it played right into our hands.

Then in the next week of the Collingwood game Clarko did something I thought was quite clever. Cloke roams up to Chf as well as going deep, so we couldn't just take the same aproach that we did with Sydney. What happened was that whenever Cloke was outside the 50, Cloke was Shcoenmaker's man, with Gibbo doing his loose man thing, staying in the middle of the 50 behind Cloke. Then when Cloke pushed into the 50, he would become Gibbo's man, with Schoenmakers being allowed to not have the responsibility of a direct opponent. However he sometimes looked lost, as if to say 'do I go on Cloke or Dawes' and looked like he was constantly changing his mind. We also dearly missed Gibbo being the loose man. By the end of it he had a decent game, defending adequately and providing a bit of rebound off half back. However it will always be remembered for "that" spilled mark. He made 1 or 2 bad errors but there were plenty of other hawks that made plenty more.

If he can increase his confidence and composure when he crosses the red or blue paint then he has the potential (I feel dirty) to be a very good player, however this is not something that can't be easily taught but will hopefully come with experience.

As with Rance and what I have seen of him, he is a good KPD but I don't see him as the type to become one of the best out there. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of him but it looks like he will probably be a good defender. That's not a bad thing, good KPDs are hard to come by. He reminds me somewhat of Stratton in terms of his potential capabilities.

In the end both are too young to judge in KPD years, with Rance having a years head start on Ryan. The next 2-3 years will be when we can judge them more accurately.

 

[raskolnikov]

So you start a thread just to denigrate a Schoenamkers. Classy stuff.

Pretty much sums up your Big Footy existence.