Coach Senior Coach Ben Rutten

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Is this even a rebuild?
They're calling it a 'development period' but it's essentially the same thing. They admitted we were no chance at a flag in the next few years by drafting a bunch of KPPs who will take 4-5 years to hit their straps.

The issue with Knights vs. Hardwick is not that Knights was a sh*t coach, it's that if we took Dimma instead of Knights there is no way that the club would have had the patience to endure a "5 year plan" and emerge out the other side with a premiership. We didn't have the patience to even give Knights 3 years and the sentiment at Richmond in 2015 and 2016 was not dissimilar to how Essendon felt in 2010 when we rolled him for Hird. And we all know how going full BIG CLUB ENERGY turned out.
And segments of the fanbase seem to have learned nothing and are whinging about the coaching 1 year into a rebuild. Hopefully the club knows better than big footy nuffies but given the apparent influence of the coteries on club affairs I'm not convinced.

I look at us, and Hawthorne

Probably in about the same position, last week we were about the same, probably go on to win but clarko changed up and outcoached Rutten..

This week we get blown away first quarter and status quo remains all game

Hawthorne get blown away first quarter then clarko changes up and they remain competitive if still losers

At seasons end we probably end up close on the ladder, with similar list but one will look more competitive than the other and it's probably due to more flexibility in the coaches box.

What I'd be looking for is a coach willing to adapt on the run. I understand comparing a rookie coach to the league's best is a bit rich , but if we are grading the bloke on a year when results don't matter it has to be here, in the box, can he change on the run and make us atleast look competitive and not training drill fodder?
Hawthorn has an ingrained game plan, an experienced group of coaches off the field and a large number of experienced leaders on it who are capable of implementing mid-game strategy changes.

We have developing leaders, a style of play we are still learning, a group of coaches who have not spent years working together, and a large number of young, inexperienced players in pretty much every part of the ground.

Even if Rutten knew what needed to be done to counter whatever Hawthorn were doing, you still need leaders who also understand and players who can implement it. Which I feel is a big ask at the stage we're at.
 

staaation

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But then I hear Leppitsch yesterday say something that was pretty disturbing. He didn't seem to think there was any point Rutten sitting on the bench because Rutten is, something like, "not the sort of bloke to put him arm around the players, be demonstrative with instruction or act like a father figure".
Could be that he's trying to work on that aspect of his coaching by sitting in with the players
 

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Don35

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So lets sack a coach because we are too impatient, so we can hire another coach to start our new rebuild?
No u sack them because u reach a conclusion that they aren’t the man for the job.

Reece Shaw was the most laughable appointment I’d seen until this bloke. He wasgame day coach last year and we were deplorable. Facts are he’s into his second year running the team on game day and the same under 12 fundamentals aren’t happening.

I’ve actually never seen an essendon team that doesn’t understand that u can’t be led to the ball all over the ground, need numbers at the fall of the ball at marking contests, can’t just kick it to the same place exiting d 50 to an outnumber all the time, let opp waltz the ball out of your f 50 to an inevitable uninterrupted scoring shot.

been bizarre watching for last year and a bit. Bloke has no idea what he’s doing. Blue collar.... ruthless.... haaaaaa
 

bomberlegend2007

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No u sack them because u reach a conclusion that they aren’t the man for the job.

Reece Shaw was the most laughable appointment I’d seen until this bloke. He wasgame day coach last year and we were deplorable. Facts are he’s into his second year running the team on game day and the same under 12 fundamentals aren’t happening.

I’ve actually never seen an essendon team that doesn’t understand that u can’t be led to the ball all over the ground, need numbers at the fall of the ball at marking contests, can’t just kick it to the same place exiting d 50 to an outnumber all the time, let opp waltz the ball out of your f 50 to an inevitable uninterrupted scoring shot.

been bizarre watching for last year and a bit. Bloke has no idea what he’s doing. Blue collar.... ruthless.... haaaaaa
So, who is the right man for the job?
 

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‪I laughed when we signed Truck after not interviewing or even looking at what else was out there.Due diligence seemed to have got us into trouble once before,looks like history is repeating.
I reckon that’s a bit of jumping at shadows to be honest.

Headhunting happens in all industries and one of the main architects of a side that’s probably going to end up winning 5 or 6 flags is an obvious candidate. People want to poach Clarko, how much process and due diligence do you reckon is going to be involved in that? He could go around turkey slapping people and still get the gig.

I don’t think you can do more than find a really promising, well credentialed young coach, surround him with his people as well as a bit of experience and give him carte blanche. As long as you stick to it.

Sidenote, he’s already shown that he’s not going to do what Hird and Worsfold did which is go into self preservation mode, clog games up to stay close and pick mature (sometimes unfit) players. Even if it cannot be sustained now he’s going to do it his way and stick with it, credit where credit is due for that.
 

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CBombers17

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Everyone gets that it's only been two rounds...

We could also pretend Truck just started this year but the truth is he's been in charge of our team defensive set up for 3 preseasons now (3.5 really given Covids extra preseason) - so for all the parience is a virtue types, where.do you realistically see this season trending out of the following?

a) improved defensive effort accross the board resulting in (and dare i say it) honest / hard working blue collar competitive performances or:

b) infighting, one way running and giving up / arse covering finger pointing and smashings week in week out - in other words - a failure of the coaching group to deliver on its promise of at least a hard working side being well coached and lead in the right direction.

Instead of stating the obvious get on the record for how you think this will pan out. Clearly plenty on here see 'b' looming large (including myself) - and it's not because they lack wisdom, maturity or patience. There is actually already plenty of exposed form for this playing group and current coaching regime - if you care to take your head out of the sand and have a look at it.
 
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owen87

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a) improved defensive effort accross the board resulting in (and dare i say it) honest / hard working blue collar competitive performances or
I’m going with this.

Emphasis on the ‘effort’ part.

May not lead to wins, may not stop is getting blown off the park. But effort, and some semblance of a system is what I want to see by the end of the season.

Port have blown lesser teams off the park for years now, even when they weren’t a Top-4 side they’ve been very proficient at putting lesser sides away. This result shouldn’t have been unexpected.
 

westking

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I actually found his after game press conference intriguing. He was in obvious shock. Really deflated effort. Looked embarrassed.
But he obviously cares alot reflected by how devastated he came across.

If he could come across more angrier, it might be enough to start changing peoples minds. Drop a few 'f' bombs, publicly demand higher standards something, anything. But Im thinking he got on the aeroplane and cried all the way home.

But the club cannot sack him even if they don't win a game - which is an unlikely possibility but still possible. They are obliged to back him in another two years and that will make three (including last year).

But if the team loses more important payers, namely Zerret and Parish at the end of the year on top of Danihar, Fantasia and Saad last year, he better look out.
 

CBombers17

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I’m going with this.

Emphasis on the ‘effort’ part.

May not lead to wins, may not stop is getting blown off the park. But effort, and some semblance of a system is what I want to see by the end of the season.

Port have blown lesser teams off the park for years now, even when they weren’t a Top-4 side they’ve been very proficient at putting lesser sides away. This result shouldn’t have been unexpected.
Port felt zero resistance in the first and glided for the rest of the game for mine but i can see how there could be some hope for improvement in this area after the first 2 rounds.

Did you feel we came to play with the required level of defensive effort from the opening siren ? Did this drop off or was it ok against Port in your estimation? Was this game a pass or a fail for the commitment to blue collar defensive work ethic?
 

B4dg3r

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I love how most BigFooty pundits were predicting an 80 point thrashing and instead we got towelled up by less yet they’re saying sack the coach. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble but get used to loses like the port game cause there’s going to be a lot of them. Let’s give Rutten the years (at least 3 IMO) to rebuild the team HIS way and then make broad statements about his capacity to coach. I’ve been through enough hell the past 20 years to know that sacking coaches regularly isn’t the way to build success.
 

Maxabillions

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I love how most BigFooty pundits were predicting an 80 point thrashing and instead we got towelled up by less yet they’re saying sack the coach. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble but get used to loses like the port game cause there’s going to be a lot of them. Let’s give Rutten the years (at least 3 IMO) to rebuild the team HIS way and then make broad statements about his capacity to coach. I’ve been through enough hell the past 20 years to know that sacking coaches regularly isn’t the way to build success.
Very true. Basically everyone on here was saying this is gonna be ugly and we’re gonna get smashed. And shockingly we got smashed 🤷‍♂️
 

owen87

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Port felt zero resistance in the first and glided for the rest of the game for mine but i can see how there could be some hope for improvement in this area after the first 2 rounds.

Did you feel we came to play with the required level of defensive effort from the opening siren ? Did this drop off or was it ok against Port in your estimation? Was this game a pass or a fail for the commitment to blue collar defensive work ethic?
I had to go out around half time, so haven’t seen the second half.

I felt they jumped us in Q1, Draper going off inside the first 5 seconds definitely didn’t help that. Took the best part of half a quarter to get organised. Effort =/= organisation, it LOOKED like an inexperienced team that got hammered by an experienced one taking a few minutes to compose themselves.

I thought the effort was there, the organisation comes with experience. Accuracy let down much of the good work down in the second half of the first quarter.

We’re fielding a backline with Gleeson as a late in as the most experienced player back there, and they did OK given the onslaught coming their way. The midfield got bullied, no question.

We’re low on personnel, low on experience, learning a relatively new system and game plan, against a genuine top-4 side playing at home.

From what I saw there were signs against both Hawthorn and Port of some semblance of a structure, along with some semblance of defensive running and effort from players.

I’d expect the understanding of the system to improve through the season, but the ability of the (especially younger) players to sustain the workload of the system to diminish.

Richmond are the product of years spent playing the same system over and over. We’re at the start of that journey.
 

westking

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I love how most BigFooty pundits were predicting an 80 point thrashing and instead we got towelled up by less yet they’re saying sack the coach. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble but get used to loses like the port game cause there’s going to be a lot of them. Let’s give Rutten the years (at least 3 IMO) to rebuild the team HIS way and then make broad statements about his capacity to coach. I’ve been through enough hell the past 20 years to know that sacking coaches regularly isn’t the way to build success.
I think your generalising a bit too much. When we listen to a Paul Brasher, Xavier Campbell or Ben Rutten we want to believe what they say. And what they have said was to expect a more consistent and blue collar performance (there were more promises made). However what we have seen this year and last year is anything but that. So when you remind people to get used to loses like this is, its not what the leaders in the club promised. (In fact I think Port would have been disappointed they didn't win by 80 because they certainly should have the way the out played us). So is it fair to criticise supporters in times like this?

The vast majority of supporters do not expect this team to win many games. But we need to start seeing progress.

Ben has been at the club 3-4 years. Apparently he was the brains behind the Tigers success and when he first came over as supporters they asked for patience. 3-4 years later we are still seeing the same poor efforts. Nothing has changed, in fact its worse then ever. I am worried what HIS way is because apart from lip service, Im not seeing it at all.

I hope Im wrong and I do hope Rutten proves many ppl wrong, I really do. But right now I do not see it happening.
 

CBombers17

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I had to go out around half time, so haven’t seen the second half.

I felt they jumped us in Q1, Draper going off inside the first 5 seconds definitely didn’t help that. Took the best part of half a quarter to get organised. Effort =/= organisation, it LOOKED like an inexperienced team that got hammered by an experienced one taking a few minutes to compose themselves.

I thought the effort was there, the organisation comes with experience. Accuracy let down much of the good work down in the second half of the first quarter.

We’re fielding a backline with Gleeson as a late in as the most experienced player back there, and they did OK given the onslaught coming their way. The midfield got bullied, no question.

We’re low on personnel, low on experience, learning a relatively new system and game plan, against a genuine top-4 side playing at home.

From what I saw there were signs against both Hawthorn and Port of some semblance of a structure, along with some semblance of defensive running and effort from players.

I’d expect the understanding of the system to improve through the season, but the ability of the (especially younger) players to sustain the workload of the system to diminish.

Richmond are the product of years spent playing the same system over and over. We’re at the start of that journey.
They've been listening to Truck explain the defensive part of the system for 3 years. How is that the start of the journey?

"Jumped us" in the first quarter is just another way to say belted us in the first quarter- in fact they took the game away from us without a shot being fired in anger. It was actually more like a surrender.

The midfield getting walked all over is the most revealing aspect of Ruttens and his coaches implementation because the midfield had continuity for all of last season with very few injuries. It's also the area we most need to be getting it and that should be getting it by now - and they aren't doing it.
 

owen87

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They've been listening to Truck explain the defensive part of the system for 3 years. How is that the start of the journey?

"Jumped us" in the first quarter is just another way to say belted us in the first quarter- in fact they took the game away from us without a shot being fired in anger. It was actually more like a surrender.

The midfield getting walked all over is the most revealing aspect of Ruttens and his coaches implementation because the midfield had continuity for all of last season with very few injuries. It's also the area we most need to be getting it and that should be getting it by now - and they aren't doing it.
K.
 

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It’s rarely about the loss.

It’s usually about how you lose.

If you continue to lose in the same manner then you have a problem because the system the head coach has in place is flawed.

The amount of uncontested ball we allow into the opposing forward 50 and bunched scoring runs is a real, and significant, problem.
 

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It’s rarely about the loss.

It’s usually about how you lose.

If you continue to lose in the same manner then you have a problem because the system the head coach has in place is flawed.

The amount of uncontested ball we allow into the opposing forward 50 and bunched scoring runs is a real, and significant, problem.
It’s a characteristic of footy in 2021 though, massive swings in momentum and the ball pinging from end to end. The fact that Rutten hasn’t worked out how to stop it is far from an indictment on him.

The best sides are guarding against it by keeping the footy and chaining it as far away from their back 50 as possible to give their defenders time to set the ground up and by converting their chances.

I would say we’ve got significant work to do on both of those things but we’re not as far away as people are making us out to be.
 

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