Should the AFL allow Essendon to play if charged with doping ?

[I Rock]

So would any player - Brent Guerra rings a bell

Are you suggesting that all the Essendon players were injured at the time of the "supplement" program and given injections to give them the best chance to play in a final?

 

[Cronos]

Players are asked first and foremost to consult their club doctors.

Is this a good time to quote Doc Reid's letter?

Last week the players were given subcutaneous injections, not by myself, and I had no idea that this was happening and also what drug was involved.

I guess they didn't ask him before getting the jabs...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Are you suggesting that all the Essendon players were injured at the time of the "supplement" program and given injections to give them the best chance to play in a final?

None of that matters regarding the point he was making...

 

[BigJoeD_]

Are you suggesting that all the Essendon players were injured at the time of the "supplement" program and given injections to give them the best chance to play in a final?

LOL.

I am suggesting that players take the word of the club doctor regarding the substances injected into their bodies.

But I think you know that

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So would any player - Brent Guerra rings a bell

Orkothine is ASADA approved, and used by many AFL clubs, including Essendon. There lies the difference.

 

[Bazza37]

Gill's Contingency Plan 2014 : Let Essendon players continue to play

 

[BigJoeD_]

Orkothine is ASADA approved, and used by many AFL clubs, including Essendon. There lies the difference.

Irrelevant to my point - guerra didn't even ask what it was

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Irrelevant to my point - guerra didn't even ask what it was

LOL. Of course he did. He also knew that Nich Riewoldt was having the same treatment.

There was no veil of secrecy, unlike Essendon's daily stomach injections.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Orkothine is ASADA approved, and used by many AFL clubs, including Essendon. There lies the difference.

dude, it's not ASADA approved. We went over this. Do you want me to find the press release issued by ASADA clearly stating that? You're quoting a newspaper article that was shot down the very same day by ASADA!

 

[BigJoeD_]

LOL. Of course he did. He also knew that Nich Riewoldt was having the same treatment.

There was no veil of secrecy, unlike Essendon's daily stomach injections.

asked what he'd had injected into his hamstring Guerra said: "I'm not too sure... I just lay on the table and I say 'you do what you've got to do and I'll be quite happy to just lay there'."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-fixtures/guerra-true-blood-20120906-25hn1.html

LOL yourself

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

dude, it's not ASADA approved. We went over this. Do you want me to find the press release issued by ASADA clearly stating that? You're quoting a newspaper article that was shot down the very same day by ASADA!

Ok, well it looks like Essendon are in more strife then.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-fixtures/guerra-true-blood-20120906-25hn1.html

LOL yourself

You are very gullible if you believe that Guerra and others had no info as to what it was.

That answer he gave the press is similar to when cameras rock up to training and ask "How did player A pull up after he went off on the weekend?", and they respond with "Oh, I haven't spoken to him, so I'm not sure. He looks fine."

The players know damn well. They are just shielding their knowledge from the media.

 

[BigJoeD_]

You are very gullible if you believe that Guerra and others had no info as to what it was.

That answer he gave the press is similar to when cameras rock up to training and ask "How did player A pull up after he went off on the weekend?", and they respond with "Oh, I haven't spoken to him, so I'm not sure. He looks fine."

The players know damn well. They are just shielding their knowledge from the media.

Hahaha, okey mete

 

[Sydney Bloods]

The AFL will have enough problems justify allowing them to player after the show couse notices are issued. In fact I have no doubt they are demanding that the issuing of show clause notices be kept secert until a finding is entered in the registar. But the AFL would be mega stupid if they really attempted to allow the players to continue to play once it got out.

Recall the loud BOOS when Watson played. If Essendon runs onto the field with several players who have been entered on the registar as drug cheats then the roof of Etihad will lift off with the chanting of CHEATS CHEATS CHEATS. Fights will begin in the crowd as faithful Essendon fans hear the people beside them chanting CHEATS CHEATS CHEATS. Some players, hello taggers, would be unable to resist bad mouthing their Essendon opponents, whispering fithy druggie cheat. Fights would begin on the field. Violence feeding violence, officals losing control. people begin being hurt, panic begins. Panic among a crowd of 40,000 plus is deadly.

Sure this nightmare may not happen, it may not even be likely, but it could happen.

So NO

Ladies and gentlemen it's time to play Worst case scenario, here your host baldur!

 

[I Rock]

LOL.

I am suggesting that players take the word of the club doctor regarding the substances injected into their bodies.

But I think you know that

I do, however I would suggest that if you were going to partake in a program that will mean you receive such a high number of "irregular" injections with a number of "irregular" substances. Then you really should question it more than you would if you were about to get your average pain killing injection. But I think you know that

You see Joseph, there are many Essendon posters who seem to make the assumption that the Essendon program was a regular occurrence and therefor the regular assumptions apply. However the program was not a regular AFL occurrence and the regular assumptions should not apply. Jobe Watson himself admitted he received more injections as part of the program that he every had before. That by his own admission should mean Jobe Watson should have been more diligent with what was getting pumped into his body. But I think you know that .

 

[BigJoeD_]

I do, however I would suggest that if you were going to partake in a program that will mean you receive such a high number of "irregular" injections with a number of "irregular" substances. Then you really should question it more than you would if you were about to get your average pain killing injection. But I think you know that

You see Joseph, there are many Essendon posters who seem to make the assumption that the Essendon program was a regular occurrence and therefor the regular assumptions apply. However the program was not a regular AFL occurrence and the regular assumptions should not apply. Jobe Watson himself admitted he received more injections as part of the program that he every had before. That by his own admission should mean Jobe Watson should have been more diligent with what was getting pumped into his body. But I think you know that .

Players are told to consult the club doctor re supplements, injections, whatever, amirite Rocky?
Hindsight is always 20/20 is it not?

 

[Baldur]

Ladies and gentlemen it's time to play Worst case scenario, here your host baldur!

Yep, I spent a couple minutes of thinking about the worst case scenario. Therefore my worst case is predictable, forseeable, with very little effort. The thing about negligence cases is proving the bad event was predictable, even if not likely and bad enough that a certain action should have been taken. If the AFL allows them to play, they are negligent.

 

[I Rock]

Players are told to consult the club doctor re supplements, injections, whatever, amirite Rocky?
Hindsight is always 20/20 is it not?

So you are suggesting that Dr Reid is at fault? How do you feel about Dr Reid being in the EFC Hall of Fame? That must sting a bit.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I'd want to know why I need a consent form in that circumstance, and I ask someone OUTSIDE the club, but apparently, nobody did. end of story. Guilty your Honour

The players requested the consent forms.

Easily fixed....fess up 15 months ago, media scrutiny gone 24 month ban almost over. save the million made up by members blindly ticking the extra $50 on their membership and given to James(mokbel) hird and indeed the club would have been in a better place then where they now find them selves.

Is that how it works is it?

The media attention wouldn't have been any worse had they just confessed to knowingly cheating?

Is this a good time to quote Doc Reid's letter?

Last week the players were given subcutaneous injections, not by myself, and I had no idea that this was happening and also what drug was involved.

I guess they didn't ask him before getting the jabs...

Do you think any player at any club would run to their club doctor if their own sports scientist, an employee of the club and someone they trusted was telling them the injections were safe and legal and, possibly, had been ticked off by the doctor?

That letter shows the breakdown in communication between Dank and Doc Reid, and how much of a free reign Dank had. Don't worry, the people who allowed that to happen (Robinson, Hamilton, Robson) are already gone.

I'm not a professional athlete so I'd take the injection that my doctor tells me to

But in the case of being asked to take injections at an offsite clinic when Doc Reid isn't present, knowing that if something is wrong I'll cop a two year ban which may end my career I'd take the Zaharakis option

That "off-site clinic" was across the road from Windy Hill. And it would be almost impossible for Doc Reid to be there on every occasion... he has a job and a life outside the football club.

They trusted a fellow EFC employee, someone they believed was an ethical, responsible, trained expert to act in their best interests. As any player would.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hahaha, okey mete

You got nothing, eh?

Thought so.

 

[KennyHunter9]

The AFL should not allow players charged with doping offences to keep playing, unless it wants to be seen as soft on drugs.

EFC may seek injunctions of course, which the AFL would to comply with if granted.

Lawyers will inevitably be involved, which is exactly why ASADA is in no hurry. They will not want these charges to fall over for technical reasons. They will have spent months going over this. Timmy Watson can bleat all he likes about the time it's taking, but ASADA is moving slowly, as it should.

EFC may well sue, or seek injunctive relief. But they will also be on the receiving end of law suits from players.

There is a clear scenario whereby EFC will not be able to pay its debts if multiple players are successful in suing them for loss of earnings, breach of employer's duty of care and damage to their reputation.

 

[BigJoeD_]

So you are suggesting that Dr Reid is at fault? How do you feel about Dr Reid being in the EFC Hall of Fame? That must sting a bit.

I am not suggesting anything other than players are instructed to consult the club doctor prior to putting anything in their bodies. I am also suggesting that the players trust the doctors implicitly.

FWIW, I feel the timing of Reid's induction is absolutely disgraceful

 

[Cronos]

Do you think any player at any club would run to their club doctor if their own sports scientist, an employee of the club and someone they trusted was telling them the injections were safe and legal and, possibly, had been ticked off by the doctor?

If my six figure income depended on it, and my only defence is that the Doc said it was ok, then yes, I'd check with my club doctor at the absolute minimum.

That letter shows the breakdown in communication between Dank and Doc Reid, and how much of a free reign Dank had. Don't worry, the people who allowed that to happen (Robinson, Hamilton, Robson) are already gone.

At least one other that allowed it to happen got a contract extension, and a free study trip while being paid to not do his job.

That "off-site clinic" was across the road from Windy Hill. And it would be almost impossible for Doc Reid to be there on every occasion... he has a job and a life outside the football club.

However, the Doc had no idea it was happening, and nor did he know what the drugs injected that were "approved by the doc" were. Kind of hurts the defence that the Doc said it was ok...

They trusted a fellow EFC employee, someone they believed was an ethical, responsible, trained expert to act in their best interests. As any player would.

It blows me away that not a single person thought "this is unusual" and looked further. It's the kind of thing that someone complicit would do.

 

[BigJoeD_]

You got nothing, eh?

Thought so.

I've got nothing? You responded with a rant about players not meaning what they say - 'the players are shielding their knowledge from the media'.

I actually genuinely laughed at your feeble response

 

[SunshineBoy]

The players requested the consent forms.


Is that how it works is it?

The media attention wouldn't have been any worse had they just confessed to knowingly cheating?

Do you think any player at any club would run to their club doctor if their own sports scientist, an employee of the club and someone they trusted was telling them the injections were safe and legal and, possibly, had been ticked off by the doctor?

That letter shows the breakdown in communication between Dank and Doc Reid, and how much of a free reign Dank had. Don't worry, the people who allowed that to happen (Robinson, Hamilton, Robson) are already gone.


That "off-site clinic" was across the road from Windy Hill. And it would be almost impossible for Doc Reid to be there on every occasion... he has a job and a life outside the football club.

They trusted a fellow EFC employee, someone they believed was an ethical, responsible, trained expert to act in their best interests. As any player would.

are you saying dank didn't go rogue?