Should the GF be played at a Neutral venue?

[doppleganger]

It would only take one gf where vics were killed by flights for the afl to flex its muscles and do something.

What do you think the AFL can actually do?

Virgin Australia have a fleet of just over 100 planes, of which more than 70% are 737-800s which take bout 170 passengers.

In 2015, Virgin put on an additional 6500 seats above their regular schedule for the PER - MEL route.

But at the same weekend the NRL GF was on and plenty of Melbourne fans were heading to Sydney, and it is school holidays so plenty of people off traveling as it is already a peak demand period

Yet you actually still think that scheduling a GF that has an 80% chance of involving two non WA teams in Perth is something that a ‘pro-active’ AFL would do.

What the AFL would do is simply not proceed with any proposal that puts two east coast teams playing a GF in Perth.

 

[kranky al]

What do you think the AFL can actually do?

Virgin Australia have a fleet of just over 100 planes, of which more than 70% are 737-800s which take bout 170 passengers.

In 2015, Virgin put on an additional 6500 seats above their regular schedule for the PER - MEL route.

But at the same weekend the NRL GF was on and plenty of Melbourne fans were heading to Sydney, and it is school holidays so plenty of people off traveling as it is already a peak demand period

Yet you actually still think that scheduling a GF that has an 80% chance of involving two non WA teams in Perth is something that a ‘pro-active’ AFL would do.

What the AFL would do is simply not proceed with any proposal that puts two east coast teams playing a GF in Perth.

4 airbus A380’s in 800 seat configuration

Voila

9600 people moved a day in 3 flights.




https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...ent--at-a-steep-discount-20160616-gpl3sy.html

adding that some carriers might want A380s only at certain times of the year such as the Hajj pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, and that Doric is looking at ways to accommodate those needs.

 

[doppleganger]

4 airbus A380’s in 800 seat configuration

Voila

9600 people moved a day in 3 flights.


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...ent--at-a-steep-discount-20160616-gpl3sy.html

adding that some carriers might want A380s only at certain times of the year such as the Hajj pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, and that Doric is looking at ways to accommodate those needs.

Which A380s actually are set up as cattle class on both floors?

QANTAS set up is 480 people. And article states 550 people.

So just get six or seven of the buggers hey!

And yeah a ‘short-term’ five year lease would really appeal to the AFL.

Voila indeed

 

[flamingEMBERS]

You are aware the NRL grand final is played the day after the AFL grand final and at Stadium Australia! What would help grow the game in the northern states far more than a grand final is decent press coverage. Games shown on the primary channel not the secondary channels. Decent newspaper coverage. None of which was occurring in 2002-2004 and that was when Sydney & Brisbane were flying.

We could have forced the NRL Grand final a week later as has often been played or forced them into Suncorp. I bet if Melbourne could it would host both so I'd say NSW and Sydney would have wanted too. I'm not denying that media coverage is an issue in the northern states, but imagine the media coverage in the QLD or NSW that year they host a Grand Final. School Kids would be learning about AFL like kids did when the Olympics came. The two aren't mutually exclusive. They can simultaneously occur and hosting a grand final significantly influences what you were talking about.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Parochial victorians dont see the threat of soccer

With the increase in migration these idiots would see the afl become a second tier sport rather than share their toys.

This is so true. The threat of soccer is massive. It's not about rugby anymore. They're done and dusted. It's 1000000% soccer.

 

[kranky al]

Which A380s actually are set up as cattle class on both floors?

QANTAS set up is 480 people. And article states 550 people.

So just get six or seven of the buggers hey!

And yeah a ‘short-term’ five year lease would really appeal to the AFL.

Voila indeed

Look at you

Seizing on any small crumb you can find.


Aaahhhaaa it says in the article that they are configured for 550

Planes can be reconfigured - these planes are headed for the boneyard if they cant find someone to use them

The article SPECIFICALLY mentions users that might only want then once a year for haji

AND THE POINT IS NOT THAT THE AFL BECOME AN AIRLINE - the point is that the afl flex their muscles and stop the airlines from artificially restricting seats - there are several ways they can do this - including chartering existing widebody international planes already in and out of the country.

At the moment - small groups of west australians are chartering planes at ruinous expense - an organisation like the afl is able to have the upfront cash and bulk negotiating muscle to get them a much much much better deal.

The idea is to actually force the airlines to put bulk extra seats on as their duopoly on it is threatened.

At the moment they artificially restrict seats and charge accordingly.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Look at you

Seizing on any small crumb you can find.


Aaahhhaaa it says in the article that they are configured for 550

Planes can be reconfigured - these planes are headed for the boneyard if they cant find someone to use them

The article SPECIFICALLY mentions users that might only want then once a year for haji

AND THE POINT IS NOT THAT THE AFL BECOME AN AIRLINE - the point is that the afl flex their muscles and stop the airlines from artificially restricting seats - there are several ways they can do this - including chartering existing widebody international planes already in and out of the country.

At the moment - small groups of west australians are chartering planes at ruinous expense - an organisation like the afl is able to have the upfront cash and bulk negotiating muscle to get them a much much much better deal.

The idea is to actually force the airlines to put bulk extra seats on as their duopoly on it is threatened.

At the moment they artificially restrict seats and charge accordingly.

How can the afl influence airline pricing when they cant even get all.of the players out of economy?

 

[kranky al]

How can the afl influence airline pricing when they cant even get all.of the players out of economy?

Well i outlined exactly how

Get one of the other richmond supporters who done got his letters to explain it to you as reading clearly is problematic.

West coast had a solution to that btw - kyboshed by the afl

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well i outlined exactly how

Get one of the other richmond supporters who done got his letters to explain it to you as reading clearly is problematic.

West coast had a solution to that btw - kyboshed by the afl

You.never said who is paying for all these chartered planes

If the afl, lol

If the airline, how do you force them.not to pass on the cost? The afl is a price taker in the ticketing market. If govt puts in price ceilings, the airlines will just put planes on more profitable routes

 

[kranky al]

You.never said who is paying for all these chartered planes

If the afl, lol

If the airline, how do you force them.not to pass on the cost? The afl is a price taker in the ticketing market. If govt puts in price ceilings, the airlines will just put planes on more profitable routes

Id imagine the afl would pay upfront then pass it on to the users

At a reasonable rate not $2000-10000 per ticket.

They can even make a small profit.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Id imagine the afl would pay upfront then pass it on to the users

At a reasonable rate not $2000-10000 per ticket.

They can even make a small profit.

Show us what costs you expect to make a.profit

It costs around $60k an hour jist to hire one of these things, and you will have to bring it in from somewhere, have it sit around for days, so its not just flight time your paying for.

Add to that airport charges and so on

 

[doppleganger]

Look at you

Seizing on any small crumb you can find.


Aaahhhaaa it says in the article that they are configured for 550

Planes can be reconfigured - these planes are headed for the boneyard if they cant find someone to use them

The article SPECIFICALLY mentions users that might only want then once a year for haji

AND THE POINT IS NOT THAT THE AFL BECOME AN AIRLINE - the point is that the afl flex their muscles and stop the airlines from artificially restricting seats - there are several ways they can do this - including chartering existing widebody international planes already in and out of the country.

At the moment - small groups of west australians are chartering planes at ruinous expense - an organisation like the afl is able to have the upfront cash and bulk negotiating muscle to get them a much much much better deal.

The idea is to actually force the airlines to put bulk extra seats on as their duopoly on it is threatened.

At the moment they artificially restrict seats and charge accordingly.

You are having a laugh surely.

You think it is a small process to simply reconfigure 4 or 5 A380s just so the AFL can use them for what 10 days!

And how much lead-time do you reckon that would entail? AFL potentially won’t know the demand until the week before!

You can charter a380s now, £40K per hour is advertised price from this mob - https://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/large-airliner-hire/A380.html

You want the AFL to not only charter 4 A380s, for what 10 days - but to have them pay to also have them reconfigured especifically for them, with no lead time.

Then you want them to be flown almost non-stop, no consideration of actual staffing implications...not just chartering the plane and one crew, would need multiple crews to enable your schedule with conditions and rest time for pilots/crew under working standards to be met.

All this just so some Perth people don’t have to pay 5x the price of an airfare!!

It is not the airlines who are restricting seats, it is Perth’s isolation...

any smart organisation would never plan to host a huge event there, especially when it is known that it is an 80% probability that up to 50k people who are normally granted ticket access (club members and AFL club support members) would be based on the East Coast.

The only way Perth would ever host a GF if it reverted to a highest ranked team type deal where the crowd is more like a PF.

 

[Heisenberg_]

You're living in a fantasy world if you think the consumer wouldn't be the ones getting ripped off.
It's a moot point anyway, if it's ever going to happen it won't be for another 20 years when the MCC contract expires, who knows what the airline industry will be doing then.

 

[doppleganger]

Show us what costs you expect to make a.profit

It costs around $60k an hour jist to hire one of these things, and you will have to bring it in from somewhere, have it sit around for days, so its not just flight time your paying for.

Add to that airport charges and so on

Plus days it would take to change fit out to his pure cattle class before they get here. Then the same days after AFL is done with it to change it back.

Or do the charter companies also do this for free because of the AFLs muscle?

 

[kranky al]

You are having a laugh surely.

You think it is a small process to simply reconfigure 4 or 5 A380s just so the AFL can use them for what 10 days!

And how much lead-time do you reckon that would entail? AFL potentially won’t know the demand until the week before!

You can charter a380s now, £40K per hour is advertised price from this mob - https://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/large-airliner-hire/A380.html

You want the AFL to not only charter 4 A380s, for what 10 days - but to have them pay to also have them reconfigured especifically for them, with no lead time.

Then you want them to be flown almost non-stop, no consideration of actual staffing implications...not just chartering the plane and one crew, would need multiple crews to enable your schedule with conditions and rest time for pilots/crew under working standards to be met.

All this just so some Perth people don’t have to pay 5x the price of an airfare!!

It is not the airlines who are restricting seats, it is Perth’s isolation...

any smart organisation would never plan to host a huge event there, especially when it is known that it is an 80% probability that up to 50k people who are normally granted ticket access (club members and AFL club support members) would be based on the East Coast.

The only way Perth would ever host a GF if it reverted to a highest ranked team type deal where the crowd is more like a PF.

You do realise your grasping at straws is an argument in our favour not against


Right now you are terrified of the grand final moving so you are desperately seeking negatives - anything - no matter how slender

Planes are made to be reconfigurable easily - its meccano - they have rails all the way up and everything clips in modules

If the grand final moved and YOU were facing what we face - you would be directing all this negative energy into positive measures.


We would have 1/2 a million vics demanding that something be done

Instead of vics who arent affected idly telling us nothing can be done whilst wringing their hands in unctuous glee.

 

[doppleganger]

Grasping at straws?

Pointing out the shortcomings of your suggestion isn’t grasping at straws.

What is there to be frightened about?

Some jilted WA person ranting about how they are shafted and the time is coming when everyone out east else will find out what that is like...

You need a cup of tea, a bex and a good lie down.

 

[kranky al]

Grasping at straws?

Pointing out the shortcomings of your suggestion isn’t grasping at straws.

What is there to be frightened about?

Some jilted WA person ranting about how they are shafted and the time is coming when everyone out east else will find out what that is like...

You need a cup of tea, a bex and a good lie down.

When one of the articles clearly mentions short term hires

I quote that part of the article - and link it

And you twatwaffle about five year leases.

Theres more straws being grasped than teenage girls at a rolf harris gig

 

[doppleganger]

When one of the articles clearly mentions short term hires

I quote that part of the article - and link it

And you twatwaffle about five year leases.

Theres more straws being grasped than teenage girls at a rolf harris gig

This is the entire sentence you were supposedly ‘quoting’ I have bolded the part you left out.

Leases for as little as five years -- half the usual lease term -- could be accepted in order to maximise interest, Paehler said, adding that some carriers might want A380s only at certain times of the year such as the Hajj pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, and that Doric is looking at ways to accommodate those needs.

The article you posted also specifically mentioned the planes are 550 seaters.

So yes, I read your full article that you posted and realised you had cherry picked a partial piece of a sentence and ignored other parts of it...and then came up with some fanciful projection over chartering 4 a380s and actually thinking the AFL could make money from it!!

Pointing out some pretty obvious flaws in your scenario isn’t clutching at straws.

But yeah, us evil East Coasters are going to get what is coming to us one day...

By the way...what does Rolf Harris, a good WA boy, have to do with anything? Is that what is coming to us...you going to send more Rolf’s over East?

 

[kranky al]

This is the entire sentence you were supposedly ‘quoting’ I have bolded the part you left out.

Leases for as little as five years -- half the usual lease term -- could be accepted in order to maximise interest, Paehler said, adding that some carriers might want A380s only at certain times of the year such as the Hajj pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, and that Doric is looking at ways to accommodate those needs.

The article you posted also specifically mentioned the planes are 550 seaters.

So yes, I read your full article that you posted and realised you had cherry picked a partial piece of a sentence and ignored other parts of it...and then came up with some fanciful projection over chartering 4 a380s and actually thinking the AFL could make money from it!!

Pointing out some pretty obvious flaws in your scenario isn’t clutching at straws.

But yeah, us evil East Coasters are going to get what is coming to us one day...

By the way...what does Rolf Harris, a good WA boy, have to do with anything? Is that what is coming to us...you going to send more Rolf’s over East?

Thankyou

adding that some carriers might want A380s only at certain times of the year such as the Hajj pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia, and that Doric is looking at ways to accommodate those needs.

Carriers only want 380s at certain times of the year

That aint a five year lease

Hajj pilgrimage

Sorta like a gf pilgrimage innit - only the gf is more religious.


All in all you still miss the point by a mile though.

The idea is to not be a part time airline

Its to force the duopoly to not restrict flights to force up prices past a certain point.

 

[doppleganger]

The idea is to not be a part time airline

Its to force the duopoly to not restrict flights to force up prices past a certain point.

The Muslim travel is a year round process, and Malaysian is testing out whether it is commercially viable for them to proceed. They are cracking on with the plan by the way.

You do realise that the Umrah packages, another “pilgrimage” when you simply head to Mecca at other times during the year are substantially cheaper than Hajj packages.

Funny that.

The company’s aren’t exploring this to help out Muslim travellers, they see it as an opportunity to make $$$ and the plane owners need to get more $$ than they would from leasing compared to selling for parts. Everyone is simply looking to maximise their $$$.

Yet from that you have somehow deduced that the AFL should deliberately work against its commercial airline partner and instead go out on their own and try to arrange a charter arrangement with an alternate carrier based in Asia or Europe.

And by doing this, the AFL will somehow be able to turn a profit whilst not passing on any costs to people wanting to fly!?

You are living in fairy land.

 

[kranky al]

The Muslim travel is a year round process, and Malaysian is testing out whether it is commercially viable for them to proceed. They are cracking on with the plan by the way.

You do realise that the Umrah packages, another “pilgrimage” when you simply head to Mecca at other times during the year are substantially cheaper than Hajj packages.

Funny that.

The company’s aren’t exploring this to help out Muslim travellers, they see it as an opportunity to make $$$ and the plane owners need to get more $$ than they would from leasing compared to selling for parts. Everyone is simply looking to maximise their $$$.

Yet from that you have somehow deduced that the AFL should deliberately work against its commercial airline partner and instead go out on their own and try to arrange a charter arrangement with an alternate carrier based in Asia or Europe.

And by doing this, the AFL will somehow be able to turn a profit whilst not passing on any costs to people wanting to fly!?

You are living in fairy land.

But they werent talking about umrah

They are talking clearly about short term and hajj

And AGAIN with the either/ or

noone said the afl has to do it for free - you keep putting words in my mouth then knocking it down -

The afl can even turn a tidy profit on it - just not $2000 per ticket

Ive mentioned this in several posts but you are like a blowfly butting its head against a window with this.

Oh and all the fallacious arguments you are using - heres a list so you can avoid them in future


There are only a couple of these you havnt used yet.

 

[doppleganger]

The afl can even turn a tidy profit on it - just not $2000 per ticket

Ive mentioned this in several posts but you are like a blowfly butting its head against a window with this.

I am not the only poster to have questioned you on this.

How do you propose the AFL will be able to turn a profit by competing against their airline partner, and not pumping up prices?

Love to see your modelling.

 

[kranky al]

I am not the only poster to have questioned you on this.

How do you propose the AFL will be able to turn a profit by competing against their airline partner, and not pumping up prices?

Love to see your modelling.

Well when the partner is charging extortionate prices

Ie More than a trip to england and back


Im going to take a wild swing in the dark and say its not going to be difficult to beat that.

Seeing as england is nearly 15000 km away.

Qantas were charging $2860 return in 2015

On a flight that usually costs between $350-500 return.


Thats extortion.
They have figured out that instead of putting on heaps more flights - they are better off restricting supply and ramping prices.

Thats nearly 6 times the price of a regular fare.

Im sure theres a margin in that - dont you think?

 

[Big Blood]

You're living in a fantasy world if you think the consumer wouldn't be the ones getting ripped off.
It's a moot point anyway, if it's ever going to happen it won't be for another 20 years when the MCC contract expires, who knows what the airline industry will be doing then.

Cue the equally irrelevant stadium discussion.

 

[doppleganger]

Well when the partner is charging extortionate prices

Ie More than a trip to england and back


Im going to take a wild swing in the dark and say its not going to be difficult to beat that.

Seeing as england is nearly 15000 km away.

Qantas were charging $2860 return in 2015

On a flight that usually costs between $350-500 return.


Thats extortion.
They have figured out that instead of putting on heaps more flights - they are better off restricting supply and ramping prices.

Thats nearly 6 times the price of a regular fare.

Im sure theres a margin in that - dont you think?

That isn’t any modelling.

Flights in school holiday periods always are more, even looking return Qantas flight for April school holidays can’t get it for under 500...even with the red eye.

Perhaps Tiger or Jetstar if lucky, but school holiday period rarely get change from 600 with Qantas.

But a commercial group putting a premium on of x4 or 5 isn’t unusual. It is exactly what is happening in the US now. But thankfully Eagle fans over there have other options, they can fly to neighboring cities and then drive from there to reduce costs etc.

But direct flights from Philadelphia are over $2000

https://www.aol.com/article/finance...minneapolis-for-the-super-bowl-cost/23340283/

And accomodation in Minny is up x10.

It is how the world works.

And involving an isolated city with no neighboring options, and no real other option apart from flying - it makes it even worse.

Where is your modelling on the costs to charter a380s? £40,000 per hour going rate...and assume that is with one crew.