Sin City's 2012 Phantom Draft

[HARKER]

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-...-in-at-the-draft/story-e6frf9jf-1226516135805
Been on about this one for a while now, makes a lot of sense to me given they're already very strong in the midfield and forward line.

Nice early call Sin

Didn't see that as a possibility but getting the impression that Plowman may make for a jack of all trades.
Do you see him capable of centre involvement or is he strictly a stay at home back?

 

[HARKER]

I always wonder just how much weight recruiters place upon their character profiling.

Of course it's very subjective, but when you see what has shown up as an obvious talent in Darling, drop anything from 10 - 20 places because of him pigeon-holed as a "type" it must really throw recruiters into a bit of a quandary.
Must be tough weighing up the risk vs. the benefit at times and there seems to be quite a few players in that mix this year, for medical as well as character reasons.

 

[Sin City]

Nice early call Sin

Didn't see that as a possibility but getting the impression that Plowman may make for a jack of all trades.
Do you see him capable of centre involvement or is he strictly a stay at home back?

Or getting the impression the Herald Sun are getting their "inside word" from BigFooty

He might have potential to make a move into the midfield after a while, similar maybe to David Mundy but I don't think so. To me he's the sort of defender that can control a game.

He'll shut down his man whether it's a lead up CHF or a medium forward, he'll help his team mates out with his wonderful judgement and spoiling and he'll set his team up offensively with interceptions and rebounding. A defender that good that may be a midfielder may a well remain a defender.

 

[Sin City]

I always wonder just how much weight recruiters place upon their character profiling.

Of course it's very subjective, but when you see what has shown up as an obvious talent in Darling, drop anything from 10 - 20 places because of him pigeon-holed as a "type" it must really throw recruiters into a bit of a quandary.
Must be tough weighing up the risk vs. the benefit at times and there seems to be quite a few players in that mix this year, for medical as well as character reasons.

It's interesting isn't it. No doubt all clubs will be different in the way they assess them, it's a difficult age too at only eighteen years old. Very hard to predict how any eighteen year old will turn out with still so much life experience in front of them.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Hey Sin,

Nice reading on the draft.

When you look at Carlton's list there are many things we still need. One aspect that is lower down the list of requirements but still important is hardness or that bit of extra aggression. Lucas, Warnock, Simpson, Betts, Garlett, (Russell - gone), Gibbs...+ quite a few more are fine as players and do their bit for the team but you wouldn't accuse any of them as having mongrel.Only Robinson has mongrel and a few others like Judd/Brock have the hardness tag. Some of the others are suspect best 22 like Duigan/Bell.

We now have a bit of everything developing on our list to address the recent lopsided nature of our list which leaves mostly best available as the goal. Still within that, which players around the 8-15 mark would you say had that extra bit of hardness/mongrel? I'm not talking about just getting an inside grunt stocky player (formula hard), i'm talking about a Rhys Jones or Andrew Mckay type character that are not stocky in appearance but had the character type that is hard/crazy.

Given the closeness in the ratings from 8-15 i'd be interested if anyone stood out with this nature attribute on top of other characteristics (elite kicking/ball winner). I really think Carlton could use this charactersitic to support the lucas types that will make up our future best 22.

 

[Sin City]

Hey Sin,

Nice reading on the draft.

When you look at Carlton's list there are many things we still need. One aspect that is lower down the list of requirements but still important is hardness or that bit of extra aggression. Lucas, Warnock, Simpson, Betts, Garlett, (Russell - gone), Gibbs...+ quite a few more are fine as players and do their bit for the team but you wouldn't accuse any of them as having mongrel.Only Robinson has mongrel and a few others like Judd/Brock have the hardness tag. Some of the others are suspect best 22 like Duigan/Bell.

We now have a bit of everything developing on our list to address the recent lopsided nature of our list which leaves mostly best available as the goal. Still within that, which players around the 8-15 mark would you say had that extra bit of hardness/mongrel? I'm not talking about just getting an inside grunt stocky player (formula hard), i'm talking about a Rhys Jones or Andrew Mckay type character that are not stocky in appearance but had the character type that is hard/crazy.

Given the closeness in the ratings from 8-15 i'd be interested if anyone stood out with this nature attribute on top of other characteristics (elite kicking/ball winner). I really think Carlton could use this charactersitic to support the lucas types that will make up our future best 22.

Good lord, he's alive!!!!!!

Thanks for your comments BG2011, hope all is well. I agree with you, adding some tough nuts to help us become a tougher team to play against would be very handy. It'd be nice to have teams fear playing us. As far as toughness on my list goes Vlastuin is very hard at it almost in a Mitch Robinson type way, absolutely fearless and a good leader but I have him getting picked before our first pick.

Jack Viney is a real hard nut inside mid but he's obviously going to Melbourne. Tim Membrey is at 14 on my list and as a third tall forward is a real powerhouse, explosive, big bodied and a great leader while his Gippsland team mate Nick Graham is a real work horse, inside ball winner and hard tackler and I have him at 15. Many will think that I rate these two a bit high but like you I see their hardness as a big tick against their names as far as making it in the AFL goes.

Ben Kennedy I have going at our pick, he's known for speed and skill but he's a lot more than that. He runs hard all game and consistently wins the ball inside and out. Works hard to win the inside ball and is very competitive. Very productive player.

Hope that helps

 

[Sin City]

Wish the AFL would hurry up and make a decision on Adelaide's picks, I have my editing sorted out but I don't want to jump too soon.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Good lord, he's alive!!!!!!

Have been around but banned from the Carlton board. It didn't really pay to have a different view on our list or lack of KPPs. At least the 2010 draft has given us some chance in 2013/14.

Thanks for the info on the players.

 

[Sin City]

Have been around but banned from the Carlton board. It didn't really pay to have a different view on our list or lack of KPPs. At least the 2010 draft has given us some chance in 2013/14.

Thanks for the info on the players.

Ah right, well thanks for contributing in this thread. Feel free to keep on doing so.

I'm glad we shored up our KP stocks in 2010, time to build up the engine room now for when Judd, Carrazzo, Scotland and Simpson are gone although I wouldn't mind one more developing KPD on the list.

 

[zeeCFC]

Very hard to get a gauge on Jesse Lonergan. Would he have performed better in one of the stronger state sides?

How's his disposal? Doesn't look the best in his highlights clip.

 

[Sin City]

Very hard to get a gauge on Jesse Lonergan. Would he have performed better in one of the stronger state sides?

How's his disposal? Doesn't look the best in his highlights clip.

If his carnival seems underwhelming it's because he was a late starter due to injury. He generally does the bulk of the inside work for Tassie as he's the only one who can and although he's no outside mid we didn't get to see him go forward enough which is a pity because he can take a decent mark down there and convert.

As far as his field kicking is concerned while he's not going to stand out for it (especially with the amount of inside work he'll be doing) it's adequate and shouldn't affect his draft position. One positive is he doesn't rush his kicks, he steadies and makes sure he gets it on the boot properly.

 

[Tazwegian]

Very hard to get a gauge on Jesse Lonergan. Would he have performed better in one of the stronger state sides?

How's his disposal? Doesn't look the best in his highlights clip.

As Sin said, his first game back from injury was in Tassie's third game of the carnival, so I wouldn't worry about his slow start in that game. He was clearly the BOG in the last game of the carnival. Even though he only got 15 disposals from memory, it was a low disposal game. The highest disposal winner had 18 touches, and Thurlow's 14 disposals was the third highest for Tasmania, for example. On top of that, Lonergan kicked two goals, and laid 8 tackles. The stats aren't the most flashy of all the performances in the carnival, but in the context of that particular game, it was a huge impact. Particular considering 13 of those possessions were contested. I wouldn't have any concerns over Jesse's carnival at all.

His kicking isn't great, but it's not bad. I suspect that if it was elite, we'd all be talking about Jesse as a top 10 prospect.

 

[Sin City]

I've made a start on round three even though I said I wouldn't. Still haven't done any editing around Adelaide's pick, I'll just wait and see there.

 

[Sin City]

Round three
46. West Coast - Jackson Ramsay
Plucky little player from East Perth who really caught my attention with his keenness to take the game on and run around his opponent. Had a very good start to the year and played two games in the National Carnival before a broken bone in his foot ruled him out for the year. If he had continued on the way he was going he'd get drafted much higher. Likes to kick long and wins a fair bit of the ball from defence (24 touches per game in WAFL colts, 19 per game at National Champs) and he's also not afraid of the contested stuff so could become either a small defender or move into the midfield.

47. Sydney - Spencer White
Big, strong bodied full forward who hadn't shown much up until the last half of the season but came home with a wet sail and kicked 30 goals in the last 10 TAC cup games. Recorded outstanding vertical performances at the combine and has decent speed for a big guy. Needs to learn how to get more involved in the game when he's not going for the mark and will need serious work on his defensive pressure but he's going to the right team for that.

48. North Melbourne - Tim Sumner
Another outside player for the Kangaroos, Sumner is a long term project which the 'Roos are not scared of but he is a brilliant athlete and skilful player. Excellent agility, has some really nice tricks that you'd expect to see out on the basketball court and has very nice speed and lead. Not a real productive player at the moment and that's the challenge for North, can they turn this guy into a twenty touches per game player? If so then they get an absolute steal here.

49. Melbourne - Reserved, expecting they'll get a slider after Adelaide lose their pick.

50. Western Bulldogs - Lachie Hunter
I personally think the Bulldogs got a bit of a steal here. Pretty good all round midfielder who suits the Dogs contested game and recruitment style. Has handy speed and agility, works hard all over the ground to link up as well as help his team mates out with the one percent plays and as has been mentioned plenty on these boards he's a very good tackler.

51. Western Bulldogs - Nathan Stark
Sitting down to watch SA in the championships there were so many players I was focussed on ahead of this skinny, Josh Bootsma build blondie but he just kept on bobbing up with impressive plays. Doesn't look at all like an inside midfielder but hits the contest with everything he's got and somehow comes out with the ball, quite often with a free kick for going hard at it and getting there first. Same goes with him drifting forward, just has the ability to be in the right place at the right time. Real surprise packet.

52. Essendon - Tim Broomhead
Another hard working midfielder for the Bombers. His kicking isn't great but he's a goer who can play back and forward as well. Pretty good runner who will add much needed depth to the Bombers midfield.

53. Melbourne - Harrison Marsh
Impressive medium defender who takes a very good contested mark. Hard worker which as you can see is becoming a common theme in my draft, he's a really nice kick who could in the future play more of an attacking role if required but is so nice to watch playing at half back so I hope he stays there.

54. Essendon - Brodie Murdoch
Has played a lot at half forward but can take a while to get into games and have quiet periods. he is a big bodied player who has good speed and skills and I think his go is in the midfield where he can just use his aggression to hard at the ball all the time rather than out at half forward where he can find it hard to get involved. Nice mark, good decision maker and more handy depth for the Bombers midfield.

55. Carlton - Aidan Corr
Handy defender who seems to have shot up the rankings lately. Good size at 194cm and about 87kg so would be expected to fill out nicely at an AFL club. I have to say that for all the hype he's getting I don't notice him anywhere near as much as other players during games, but that's not always a bad thing for a defender. Does most things nicely and with Carlton losing Thornton and Bower this year a developing KPD is a good addition after boosting the midfield with the early picks.

56. Gold Coast - Andrew Boston
Local boy and well known as being an excellent kick. Has played mostly as an outside midfielder where he can best utilise his kicking skills but I think with his big body that his inside game will be developed in the AFL. Hard worker with good endurance but not the quickest which is another reason to develop his inside ball winning ability.

57. North Melbourne - Shane Nelson
Missed out last year despite being very highly rated during the season. Ball magnet who has done everything right this year. Fast (2.82 second 20m sprint) and has good endurance but still has a very light frame. Worked harder at winning his own ball this year and averaged 25 disposals per game in the WAFL seniors.

58. Gold Coast - Jaryd Cachia
Surprisingly de-listed by Carlton last year after a good 2011 season Cachia did the right thing and went to the SANFL for Norwood and starred in their grand final win. Big, strong bodied inside midfielder with excellent endurance and work ethic. Lays bone crunching bumps and tackles and is a good addition to a Suns team needing an inside midfielder.

59. Gold Coast - Kyal Horsley (rookie upgrade)

60. West Coast - Alex Howson
Has played as a forward but I don't mind him as a defender and with the Eagles well set for tall forwards I think he'll be developed as a defender. Has a good balance of spoiling and marking, seems to make the right choice of when to do either and has a big body which the Eagles like.

61. West Coast - Samual Lowrie
Tall midfielder who will again appeal to the Eagles because of the potential to develop a big body. Great endurance and a real hard worker through the midfield and another local boy.

62. North Melbourne - Sam Gibson (rookie upgrade)

63. GWS - Jacob Ballard
Adding a bit of depth to the GWS defence, pretty handy player who can do the job on a bigger opponent and provide some handy rebound as well.

64. Sydney - Jarrod Stokes
very quick and agile small forward/midfielder who has a nice bag of tricks. Will probably play as a crumbing forward in the AFL but has the ability to win his own ball in the midfield. Hard to tackle and likes to take his man on and use his foot skills.

65. Sydney - Mason Wood
Another who I don't rate as highly as others but recently made Shifter's top thirty which usually means someone is interested in getting him early. Medium forward who is a good height and has good speed but I'm not a fan of his kicking and he hasn't been real productive or impacted games a real lot yet.

Round three added, still a bit of work to do on my draft once a decision is made on Adelaide.

Enjoy

 

[HARKER]

Great work again Sin.

Just went through drafts of the 00's only to find that some years had only 2 players making in this selection range spanning 20 players.

If we get one of those years again, which 2 players? Hard work for recruiters down this low.

 

[Sin City]

Great work again Sin.

Just went through drafts of the 00's only to find that some years had only 2 players making in this selection range spanning 20 players.

If we get one of those years again, which 2 players? Hard work for recruiters down this low.

Cheers Harker

As Toadvine posted earlier this week less than 5% of players drafted after pick 40 go on to play 100 games and has the same success rate as the rookie draft. Very difficult to predict which ones will make it.

 

[Azul]

55. Carlton - Aidan Corr
Does most things nicely and with Carlton losing Thornton and Bower this year a developing KPD is a good addition after boosting the midfield with the early picks.

Andy McInness had both of them covered by round 22. But with injury concerns over Jamison and Laidler plus a possible go-home factor for McCarthy, an extra tall defender couldn't hurt.

I notice you've drafted short people with picks 1 and 2 as a pre-emptive strike for losing Ellard, Scotland and Joseph next year. Bootsma will compensate the departures of Collins, Russell plus (White and Duigan).

So I'm expecting some 186-190cm midfielders with picks 4 and 5 to replace Judd, Carrazzo and Simpson.

Will Darcy Fort slide to our first rookie pick if we, perhaps inevitably, trade Warnock?

 

[Sin City]

Andy McInness had both of them covered by round 22. But with injury concerns over Jamison and Laidler plus a possible go-home factor for McCarthy, an extra tall defender couldn't hurt.

I notice you've drafted short people with picks 1 and 2 as a pre-emptive strike for losing Ellard, Scotland and Joseph next year. Bootsma will compensate the departures of Collins, Russell plus (White and Duigan).

So I'm expecting some 186-190cm midfielders with picks 4 and 5 to replace Judd, Carrazzo and Simpson.

Will Darcy Fort slide to our first rookie pick if we, perhaps inevitably, trade Warnock?

A rookie ruck, I wouldn't mind that at all. It'd be nice if we had the same luck as we did with Jacobs.

Who knows what will happen with Warnock under the new coach, either way getting a developing ruck on the list wouldn't hurt.

 

[Imformant]

Hey sin , what r ur thoughts on Anthony bonaddio ?

 

[Sin City]

Hey sin , what r ur thoughts on Anthony bonaddio ?

Personally I quite like him. The big issue us obviously his size which had seen him pigeon holed as a small forward but I think with a bit of time (he'll need time) he can develop into a midfielder and most likely a tagger with his good tackling and leg speed.

 

[Sin City]

I've edited mine due to Adelaide being very likely to have their picks taken from them and I wanted my draft finalised as soon as possible. With Tanner Smith at the Crows pick I've dropped him to Sydney's pick 22, Nathan Wright to Hawthorn's pick 28, Matthew McDonough to Port's pick 29, Rory Atkins to Richmond's pick 33 and Anthony Tipungwuti down to Melbourne at 48.

 

[Azul]

Sin, what's you're opinion on Mayes, should he slide to our pick? Someone with poise and goal-kicking skills is on the radar given Simpson's age and that we've turned over Kerr, Houlihan and Collins (touch wood) with no HFF prospects.

Are concerns over his ability to step into the midfield justified? c.f. Gibbs, in that as talented as a flanker he is, there's a lingering "what if" had we chosen a pure midfielder like Selwood.

Would talent alone trump "best available midfielder"?

 

[Knightmare]

I like that you've put your own rankings up there Sin. Always more fun that way and would be great to see more do the same as a way to seperate your personal views from where you think players will land on draft day.

There might be some selections you want to review with Garlett maybe not even going 1st round on draft day.

Colquhoun, Graham and Smith are more 2nd rounders with Hrovat, Lonergan and O'Brien more 1st rounders along with Corr.

Otherwise one of the better, more informed attempts. Well done.

 

[Sin City]

Sin, what's you're opinion on Mayes, should he slide to our pick? Someone with poise and goal-kicking skills is on the radar given Simpson's age and that we've turned over Kerr, Houlihan and Collins (touch wood) with no HFF prospects.

Are concerns over his ability to step into the midfield justified? c.f. Gibbs, in that as talented as a flanker he is, there's a lingering "what if" had we chosen a pure midfielder like Selwood.

Would talent alone trump "best available midfielder"?

I'm a huge fan of Mayes. As you can tell in my write up, he's a really good player who does so many things well. I would hope he'd be strongly in considerations if available at our pick. I can see us choosing from possibly Mayes, Macrae, Kennedy, Simpson, Menzel and Jaksch (who I expect will be picked by Brisbane) and I hope it would go in that order.

I think he would be best available and could see him becoming a very good outside midfielder with the required aggression, work rate, body size and physicality to hold up in an AFL midfield.

 

[Sin City]

I like that you've put your own rankings up there Sin. Always more fun that way and would be great to see more do the same as a way to seperate your personal views from where you think players will land on draft day.

There might be some selections you want to review with Garlett maybe not even going 1st round on draft day.

Colquhoun, Graham and Smith are more 2nd rounders with Hrovat, Lonergan and O'Brien more 1st rounders along with Corr.

Otherwise one of the better, more informed attempts. Well done.

Thanks KM, much appreciated.

I won't ever do my Phantom based on where they appear to be headed, I'll always do it on where I think they should go.

I've been a fan of O'Brien for a long time now, especially after what he did to my boys in the champs. Not sure where he will fit in yet, project but wouldn't surprise me if someone wanting a tall went for him in the 20-25 range.

I'm not buying this talk about Corr, I really don't see it and think he's more of a third round pick.