Six letters in the Rudd dictionary spell insanity

[medusala]

Big call re Gough. Still good to see someone put the boot in where it is deserved.

[I have not pasted the whole article just the quality parts]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/busines...y-spell-insanity/story-e6frfig6-1225783182193

WHAT do the government's proposed ETS and NBN have in common?....

The basic answer is irresponsibility.


Along the way, Rudd's typically bureaucratic `clever' alternative to closing our power stations is to `allow us' to pay billions of dollars to foreigners to let us keep them open.

I have to stress this, because the utter stupidity of what is proposed is so breathtaking that the average person wouldn't believe it.
The NBN -- National Broadband Network -- is equally breathtaking in its recklessness. The government has embarked on spending $43 billion without the slightest idea of whether it makes any sense.


[ Do not quote articles so extensively. It is in the rules. It was announced in here specifically. Do not do it - Chief ]

 

[camsmith]

Good article Meds. Every Australian should read it.

Also:

ETS modelling finds falls in GDP, wages

AAP October 12, 2009, 8:33 pm

Economic modelling on an emissions trading scheme (ETS), commissioned by the NSW government and conducted by the same firm used by the federal opposition, has found a four per cent drop in GDP and a likely eight per cent fall in real wages.

This modelling, according to the NSW government, generally received a tick from the Commonwealth Treasury.

The document was obtained by the Seven Network through a Freedom of Information application, with details broadcast on Monday night..

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/6209034/ets-modelling-finds-falls-in-gdp-wages

and

Tax by any other name

House Rules Blog | October 13, 2009 | 75 Comments

POLITICS is all about the pitch and the packaging - and the perception, too. We only think about the product later.

The federal opposition is in a mess over the emissions trading scheme because its pitch is bad. Barnaby Joyce and his friends have got it right. The ETS is a tax on everything.

Some analysts believe the government’s planned Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme will add costs across the economy in just its first year equivalent to increasing the GST to 12.5 per cent.

There’s a great political pitch there: the ETS equals whacking 25 per cent on the GST.

We haven’t heard the line because it conflicts with received wisdom around since the Franklin Dam debate of the early 1980s that insists environmental action is a vote-winner.. etc..

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...theaustralian/comments/tax_by_any_other_name/

 

[medusala]

Economic modelling on an emissions trading scheme (ETS), commissioned by the NSW government and conducted by the same firm used by the federal opposition, has found a four per cent drop in GDP and a likely eight per cent fall in real wages.

The unions will love this.

Not only will they lose huge numbers of members in auto, mining, construction, forestry etc but massive pay cuts.

And they said Howard was brave/crazy to introduce WorkChoices.

 

[camsmith]

The unions will love this.

Not only will they lose huge numbers of members in auto, mining, construction, forestry etc but massive pay cuts.

And they said Howard was brave/crazy to introduce WorkChoices.

Yeah well they aren't showing much opposition:

“The reality is Australian coal mining companies are extremely profitable and will continue to be well into the future under the CPRS,” CFMEU national president Tony Maher said.

“This scare mongering is purely a cynical bid by mining giants to squeeze more money in compensation out of taxpayers.”

http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2009/09/29/carbon-scheme-ignites-job-fear/

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Global warming/climate change could be the catalyst for making big bucks if enough people were to cop on to it. A wise leader should be pumping funds into R & D for the alternative fuels industry, once the worldwide economy cools down further. Australia lost good research work to Caifornia with regards to solar energy a while back, if I remember rightly.

Australia's got some fine minds that just aren't being put to use. There's money to be made.

 

[medusala]

Global warming/climate change could be the catalyst for making big bucks if enough people were to cop on to it.

????

Heaps of Australians are on to it via wind farms, uranium exploration, shale gas, palm oil etc etc.

A wise leader should be pumping funds into R & D for the alternative fuels industry, once the worldwide economy cools down further.

A wise leader would no such thing. A wise leader would realise picking winners is amongst the single most idiotic thing a government could do.

If (big if, huge if) it really is a problem then taxing carbon will bring about a market solution as people switch to alternative.

Australia lost good research work to Caifornia with regards to solar energy a while back, if I remember rightly.

What makes you think Australia would dominate this field in any event?

Australia's got some fine minds that just aren't being put to use. There's money to be made

Plenty of money is being made from gullible governments. In reality it just means higher taxes and higher power costs.

Nothing to get excited about.

 

[Schism]

The unions will love this.

Not only will they lose huge numbers of members in auto, mining, construction, forestry etc but massive pay cuts.

And they said Howard was brave/crazy to introduce WorkChoices.

brave?no

 

[medusala]

brave?no

I don't believe he is stupid enough to ever do it unless there is some miracle international agreement.

The media has to a large extent ignored the economics of it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/03/2588506.htm

One of Australia's most eminent economists says the Federal Government's planned emissions trading scheme is like a 'GST from hell' that is bound to fail economically and environmentally.

Geoff Carmody, a co-founder of Access Economics, says the Government's Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme should target consumers, not producers.
In the Australian context the CPRS is very much like the GST from hell.

"What I mean by that is it taxes our exports but not the exports of our trading partners; it taxes our import competing products but not our imports.

 

[Tex_21]

I read an article in the AFR a while back that there is an option for bringing in an ETS which would be roughyl 45% cheaper than the production-based system proposed currently. IIRC it put the focus on consumption, rather than production, reducing the economic fallout of the scheme to much smaller amounts. I'll see if I can chase it up

 

[medusala]

I read an article in the AFR a while back that there is an option for bringing in an ETS which would be roughyl 45% cheaper than the production-based system proposed currently. IIRC it put the focus on consumption, rather than production, reducing the economic fallout of the scheme to much smaller amounts. I'll see if I can chase it up

That is what Carmody from Access wants ie consumption based, the logic being a tv made in China will also then be taxed.

However, Rudd has made it clear that everyone but the "rich" will be compensated for price rises (though hardly against real wage cuts one would think).

 

[Tex_21]

Yeah it was Carmody's article. I think he raises a good point but Rudd & numbnuts in Swan are too pig-headed to look into it. Was having a conversation with a well-credentialled economist recently, who identifies himself as being slightly left-wing (Keynesian), and he doesn't trust Rudd at all.

 

[medusala]

Was having a conversation with a well-credentialled economist recently, who identifies himself as being slightly left-wing (Keynesian), and he doesn't trust Rudd at all.

Kenneth Davidson in The Age is very left wing. He has also got right in to Rudd as well particulary over broadband network. That at least has a lobby group ie telcos to distribute positive propaganda

The ETS has nothing of note.

 

[medusala]

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...e-value-pd20091015-WU4LN?OpenDocument&src=kgb

One suspects that NBNCo will require a combination of monopoly pricing and taxpayer subsidy if its economics, particularly in its ramp-up years, are to make even the remotest kind of sense.

Without a significant step-up in the entry-level retail cost of telecommunications services NBNCo will almost certainly have negative equity value unless it is massively subsidised, directly or indirectly, by the taxpayer.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Yet again, the repetition of forceful opinion trumping fact and common sense, I'm afraid.

I wonder how most people involved in the agriculture sector feel about such a denialist approach to energy policy...

The singular lack of any serious logical formation in the raving against the NBN is noteworthy also. Whither lies the 'insanity' in increasing broadband access, improving speeds and assisting the IT sector, Terry?

Still, it could've been worse, Meds might've tried to quote Janet Albrechtsen, Piers Akerman, Michael Duffy or even Andrew Bolt

 

[cancat]

Chances of agreement in Copenhagen are looking slim.

http://www.theage.com.au/environment/plan-b-looms-as-hope-for-climate-pact-fades-20091026-hgrf.html

It makes Rudd's commiting Australia to targets that the major world CO2 producers will not follow mind blowingly irresponsible. It will cost us billions to reduce emissions yet with Australia's contribution at 1.3% of the global output it will make no difference to overall CO2 levels.

 

[medusala]

Yet again, the repetition of forceful opinion trumping fact and common sense, I'm afraid.

Fact and common sense? What are those facts?

There was no cost benefit analysis done by the government. That is a fact. That modelling by the private sector indicates the NBN isnt worth anything is a fact

That there are far, far better uses for tens of billions of taxpayers $ is fact

That the carbon scheme will achieve nothing re global warming and will seriously hurt the Australian economy is fact.

You don't have facts.

You have pom poms.

 

[medusala]

The singular lack of any serious logical formation in the raving against the NBN is noteworthy also. Whither lies the 'insanity' in increasing broadband access, improving speeds and assisting the IT sector, Terry?

Still, it could've been worse, Meds might've tried to quote Janet Albrechtsen, Piers Akerman, Michael Duffy or even Andrew Bolt

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-Telstra-Conroy-pd20091020-WZ4DN?OpenDocument

If the indicative pricing is implemented, in the urban areas covering more than 80 per cent of the population, the cost of access to Telstra’s unconditioned local loop (ULL) would rise from $16.90 a month per customer to $23.60 a month, with very significant adverse implications for their margins and profitability. Not surprisingly, they are outraged.

At a cost of $25 a month per line for access to the NBN, and no change in average revenue per user, Telstra’s competitors would suffer some reduction in margins – earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) as a percentage of sales would fall from the mid-to-high 30 per cent range to less than 30 per cent.

At $25 a month, the Goldman team says their previous estimate of NBNCo’s value – negative $9 billion – would rise to about negative $16 billion.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

That there are far, far better uses for tens of billions of taxpayers $ is fact

That the carbon scheme will achieve nothing re global warming and will seriously hurt the Australian economy is fact

No, it's not. Blankly saying something is "fact" does not make for a convincing argument.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-Telstra-Conroy-pd20091020-WZ4DN?OpenDocumentNot surprisingly, they are outraged.

By "they", this article is referring to ISP competitors, not the general public.

And as near as I can tell, this article does not in fact purport to argue against the NBN being of net benefit to broadband consumers.

 

[Tambaran]

Medusala is good at misquoting articles, but I think you've discovered that.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Ah yes... incidentally, after returning to this thread again, I feel compelled to point out that the title of the article Meds used in the OP shows a certain startling lack of basic literacy skills on the part of its author... 'insanity' spelt with six letters?

 

[medusala]

Ah yes... incidentally, after returning to this thread again, I feel compelled to point out that the title of the article Meds used in the OP shows a certain startling lack of basic literacy skills on the part of its author... 'insanity' spelt with six letters?

ETS NBN

How many letters?

 

[medusala]

No, it's not. Blankly saying something is "fact" does not make for a convincing argument.

Every model has said that the ETS will hurt economic growth. Everyone accepts that as a fact even the biggest cheerleaders.

You and Just Maybe can make snide remarks all you like but you never produce anything resembling evidence to back your argument.

Both the policies are duds you carry on cheerleading.

 

[medusala]

Medusala is good at misquoting articles, but I think you've discovered that.

It was not misquoted

 

[Tambaran]

Every model has said that the ETS will hurt economic growth. Everyone accepts that as a fact even the biggest cheerleaders.

You and Just Maybe can make snide remarks all you like but you never produce anything resembling evidence to back your argument.

Both the policies are duds you carry on cheerleading.

Typical recalcitrant response from the economic failure.