Prediction St.Kilda Best 22

[pebblesofsand]

Who takes over from Gresh part in singing the song after a win? Logically would be Higgo due to position and personality. IMO, at the current moment I am not sure if I have Jack in the best 22 long term.

Not sure what people have against Higgins. Has averaged 1.8 goals a game in his 59 games with the Saints which is a pretty tidy return.

As a comparison Max King has averaged 1.97 goals a game in his 70 games, Dan Butler 1.2 goals a game in his 99 games.

 

[saintmike65]

Not sure what people have against Higgins. Has averaged 1.8 goals a game in his 59 games with the Saints which is a pretty tidy return.

As a comparison Max King has averaged 1.97 goals a game in his 70 games, Dan Butler 1.2 goals a game in his 99 games.

I’m a Higgins fan but have noticed a couple of things with him that can be fixed:
Firstly, he starts preseasons in good shape, then, for whatever reason he gradually puts on weight during the course of the season proper.
Secondly, his lack of intensity when he hasn’t got the footy needs to be better.

 

[gringo2011]

I feel like I'm rare for having Butler ahead of Higgins. I know Butler has a setback at the moment, but he was better than Higgins in 2023 imo. Higgins was the leading goal kicker but Butler wasn't too far off and he has much better pressure and impact imo.. Higgins had a great start to the year again but then faded away.

Butler is a hard working GOP, Higgins is an in jury prone slightly lazy enigma with the skill set to become a superstar. Higgins had 36.25 season with 293 disposals, 43 tackles season. Butler 33.13 259 disposal, 101 tackle season. Not far apart except for tackles. I think Higgins is frustrating because there are levels to go up.

 

[The Punter]

Butler had a better 2023 but is still yet to get on the track this pre-season.

Also, Butler and Higgins play clearly different roles.

 

[CursingFijian]

Not far apart except for tackles.

That’s the gripe though.

That he 1) doesn’t work hard enough on defence and 2) doesn’t train hard enough to fix this hole in his game.

From what I can see he also spends too much time reacting to contact that doesn’t favour him. A little bit of histrionics that rules him out of the next contest.

Is it a major flaw? I dunno. I think as long as others are working exceptionally hard around him then not a problem. But if they’re all doing it, well it’s a big problem.

Part of my absolute love for Owens is his mental fortitude to stay in the contest and go again. You don’t just have to beat him once, you need to beat him 2-3 times.

 

[beside the seaside]

Butler is a hard working GOP, Higgins is an in jury prone slightly lazy enigma with the skill set to become a superstar. Higgins had 36.25 season with 293 disposals, 43 tackles season. Butler 33.13 259 disposal, 101 tackle season. Not far apart except for tackles. I think Higgins is frustrating because there are levels to go up.

I think Higgins' main issue is his kicking. He doesn't kick the ball well, struggles to kick through it and get much distance on his kick and is a horrible set shot at goal.

If he can improve that part of his game he can become a damaging player but not sure if it's something that players often improve at his stage of his career.

Butler is a much nicer kick. Butler's issue is he tends to disappear from games, not sure why that is but when he's bad he's terrible. Having said that if he doesn't get up for round one he will be a massive loss.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

 

[puppy_dog7]

Just have a feeling Sharman is gonna solidify his spot as the 2nd tall this season. Turns 24 in July, Has all the attributes and will now have had 3 pre seasons under his belt.
Looks like he has filled out his frame a bit as well.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just have a feeling Sharman is gonna solidify his spot as the 2nd tall this season. Turns 24 in July, Has all the attributes and will now have had 3 pre seasons under his belt.
Looks like he has filled out his frame a bit as well.

Do we count Membrey as on of the talls?
Last year Cordy was pretty effective as a "ruck forward", to the extent that we kind of missed him when he wasn't there.
I tend to think that if we have Cordy, Membrey and King, we are tall enough.
But if Cordy, or Membrey aren't performing, that might open a spot for Hammer or Sharman. Otherwise they might play Owens or even Phillipou as a second or third tall.

Bit of healthy competition .

 

[gringo2011]

That’s the gripe though.

That he 1) doesn’t work hard enough on defence and 2) doesn’t train hard enough to fix this hole in his game.

From what I can see he also spends too much time reacting to contact that doesn’t favour him. A little bit of histrionics that rules him out of the next contest.

Is it a major flaw? I dunno. I think as long as others are working exceptionally hard around him then not a problem. But if they’re all doing it, well it’s a big problem.

Part of my absolute love for Owens is his mental fortitude to stay in the contest and go again. You don’t just have to beat him once, you need to beat him 2-3 times.

Higgins is never going to be a pressure forward and he's probably going to need to be Stevie J type of mid sizer. He really needs to get his tally to around 50 to 60 goals a year to cover for his lack of defensive pressure and spread. He should easily be able to average 2 to 3 goals a game. At his best and most consistent he's probably got a 70 goal season in him even. He's lead the Coleman a few times before dropping away.

 

[gringo2011]

I think Higgins' main issue is his kicking. He doesn't kick the ball well, struggles to kick through it and get much distance on his kick and is a horrible set shot at goal.

If he can improve that part of his game he can become a damaging player but not sure if it's something that players often improve at his stage of his career.

Butler is a much nicer kick. Butler's issue is he tends to disappear from games, not sure why that is but when he's bad he's terrible. Having said that if he doesn't get up for round one he will be a massive loss.

He's all or nothing. If he misses his first shot he'll miss all night. Kick the first and he can kick 6.

 

[CursingFijian]

Higgins is never going to be a pressure forward and he's probably going to need to be Stevie J type of mid sizer. He really needs to get his tally to around 50 to 60 goals a year to cover for his lack of defensive pressure and spread. He should easily be able to average 2 to 3 goals a game. At his best and most consistent he's probably got a 70 goal season in him even. He's lead the Coleman a few times before dropping away.

I rewatched the Geelong game again the other day and in the first quarter there were three penalties that should have resulted in goals for Jack but were 'pinched' by others through quick play on's etc. So he does help to create opportunities for others.

 

[Ads734]

Hill would be a good choice!

I think it will be Wilks, a rookie like Tiprat , spritual leader , desrves it

 

[Otiman]

He's all or nothing. If he misses his first shot he'll miss all night. Kick the first and he can kick 6.

We can't afford to win and lose games on a coin toss.

 

[joydivision22]

2024 St.Kilda Saints Preferred Starting Team Round 1

FB: Stocker Howard Wilkie

CHB: NWM Battle Sinclair

C: Hill Steele Wood

CHF: Butler Membrey Phillipou

FF: Owens King Higgins

FOLL: Marshall Crouch Jones

INT: Sharman Windhager Clark Henry (Wilson)

EM: Ross Dow Webster Byrnes


Sandringham

FB: Hastie Van Es (Webster)

CHB: McLennan Cordy Shoenmaker

C: Paton (Byrnes) Bonner

CHF: Hotton Hayes Garcia

FF: Collard Caminiti Keeler

FOLL: Heath (Dow) (Ross)

INT: Campbell O’Connell Allison

 

[SteeleSaints]

The biggest bonus for the club would be to have a healthy and full list to chose from for the majority of the year!

My AFL Team:
Windhager Howard Wilkie
Sinclair Battle Wanganeen-Milera
Henry Crouch Wood
Owens Caminiti Hill
Butler King Membrey

Marshall, Steele, Jones
Int: Higgins, Phillipou, Sharman, Ross
Sub: Dow

My VFL Team:
Shoenmaker Cordy Webster
Paton Van Es Stocker
Bonner Clark Allison
Hotton Hayes Garcia
Collard Keeler Heath

Campbell, Wilson, Byrnes
Int: Hastie, O'Connell, McLennan

I think this is the first year in decades when I have done both teams, where there is talent across all lines in the VFL and 80% of that side wouldnt look out of place in the senior side. There is a strong chance Keeler may start the year in defence, but I think he is a natural tall forward at this stage.

 

[gringo2011]

We can't afford to win and lose games on a coin toss.

I don't think we're going to lose matches because of him unless his mate Max misses goals as well.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Main questions I have going into the season about the best 22.

Has Webster been moved past? There still is possibly room for Webster and Stocker, but it'll be interesting to see who the main lock down small defender is.

Does Sharman continue where he left off? Feels like he's really earned a shot at a good run at it up forward, but I'm still not certain he starts. Sounds like Membrey and Owens are both looking good up forward. If Owens is going to play mainly forward, I could see Sharman still struggling to get in. Hope not though.

The midfield mix. Clearly the most interesting element to the line up. Steele, Crouch, Dow, Ross, Clark, Windhager, Phillipou etc. Not all going to fit in. Feel that Ross and Dow are probably going for one role.

Very keen for the practice games to see how things are looking.

 

[The Cobra]

Main questions I have going into the season about the best 22.

Has Webster been moved past? There still is possibly room for Webster and Stocker, but it'll be interesting to see who the main lock down small defender is.

Does Sharman continue where he left off? Feels like he's really earned a shot at a good run at it up forward, but I'm still not certain he starts. Sounds like Membrey and Owens are both looking good up forward. If Owens is going to play mainly forward, I could see Sharman still struggling to get in. Hope not though.

The midfield mix. Clearly the most interesting element to the line up. Steele, Crouch, Dow, Ross, Clark, Windhager, Phillipou etc. Not all going to fit in. Feel that Ross and Dow are probably going for one role.

Very keen for the practice games to see how things are looking.

Really not much of an idea about the best 22 but there seem be lots of players (some older & some younger) fighting for the same spots. Love that it looks like we have some solid depth and competition.

Also means that whilst you might earn first crack when the AFL season starts, if you don’t play your role as instructed, RTB will bring in the next best player to have a go.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Really not much of an idea about the best 22 but there seem be lots of players (some older & some younger) fighting for the same spots. Love that it looks like we have some solid depth and competition.

Also means that whilst you might earn first crack when the AFL season starts, if you don’t play your role as instructed, RTB will bring in the next best player to have a go.

Without question competition for positions is a good thing, its something that all the top teams have and we are not far off it. We have recruited really well in the past 3 years and those players have lifted the expectations on our mature players. It will be interesting to see who steps up and grabs their opportunities once the practice matches and games begin. Its one thing looking good in intra club scratch matches, its another playing against real opposition.

Our midfield and centre clearances have been our greatest weakness which needs to improve. We know what we'll get from Steele, Crouch & Ross, so if we can have players like - Clark, Jones, Dow, Henry, Brynes in form to chose from will add to last years list. Plus the development of those coming through - Phillipou, Owens, Windhager, Hotton, Wilson and Garcia all of a sudden our midfield will become a strength.

We saw the Hill effect when Ratten moved him to the half back, we were basically playing with 5 defenders. Contrarily Sinclair and NWM have the perfect balance of defence and attacking games so unless they are injured I cant see Bonner playing, but he will be good depth. The other small defender will be asked to play the lock down role Stocker, Webster, Paton (I doubt Bonner is that). Plus we will have Windhager, Clark and Sharman who can rotate through the back half if needed.

In the short term if Butler is not fit to start the season, we will have to find a pressure forward. I dont think Collard will be up to it, so it may fall to Byrnes, Hotton or Garcia to play that role. We may go a little taller and give Wilson the chance, but currently I see Wilson competing with Hill and Phillipou for a start in the high half forward position.

For future planning we need to find a player who can play 30% through the ruck and take some load off Marshall. Owens played the role last season and did well so perhaps he gets the gig going forward? Caminiti has had stints in there aswell so perhaps we already have the answers. Howard is servicable at full back but our aim should be to find or develop a dominant full back. If we can rely on our midfield and then the defensive 6 to win their share of contests, then our forwards wont have to compress up the ground so far. Surely that in turn allows our forward 6 to function more efficiently and play the game in our front half rather than in our defence.

Obviously our opinions on fringe players will chop and change throughout the year, but the big plus this year is there will be players in most positions ready to take baton.

 

[sammm]

A bunch of Hawthorn players (1st to 4th years) watched Boys in the Boat, which is an inspirational movie about a team/bunch of boys who are heavily doubted, who end up becoming champions, perhaps the young Saints lads should do the same.

What movie did Thomas take the players to? THEN we started losing
.

 

[Armoooo]

What movie did Thomas take the players to? THEN we started losing
.

The Day After Tomorrow... couldn't have been more fitting.

 

[The Cobra]

Without question competition for positions is a good thing, its something that all the top teams have and we are not far off it. We have recruited really well in the past 3 years and those players have lifted the expectations on our mature players. It will be interesting to see who steps up and grabs their opportunities once the practice matches and games begin. Its one thing looking good in intra club scratch matches, its another playing against real opposition.

Our midfield and centre clearances have been our greatest weakness and we know what will get from Steele, Crouch & Ross. So if we can have players like - Clark, Jones, Dow, Henry, Brynes inform to chose from and develop those coming through - Phillipou, Owens, Windhager, Hotton, Wilson and Garcia all of a sudden our midfield will become a strength.

We saw the Hill effect when Ratten moved him to the half back, we were basically playing with 5 defenders. Contrarily Sinclair and NWM have the perfect balance of defence and attacking games so unless they are injured I cant see Bonner playing, but he will be good depth. The other small defender will be asked to play the lock down role Stocker, Webster, Paton (I doubt Bonner is that). Plus we will have Windhager, Clark and Sharman who can rotate through the back half if needed.

In the short term if Butler is not fit to start the season, we will have to find a pressure forward. I dont think Collard will be up to it, so it may fall to Byrnes, Hotton or Garcia to play that role. We may go a little taller and give Wilson the chance, but currently I see Wilson competing with Hill and Phillipou for a start in the high half forward position.

For future planning we need to find a player who can play 30% through the ruck and take some load off Marshall. Owens played the role last season and did well so perhaps he gets the gig going forward? Caminiti has had stints in there aswell so perhaps we already have the answers. Howard is servicable at full back but our aim should be to find or develop a dominant full back. If we can rely on our midfield and then the defensive 6 to win their share of contests, then our forwards wont have to compress the ground so far. Surely that in turn allows our forward 6 to function more efficiently and play the game in our front half rather than in our defence.

Obviously our opinions on fringe players will chop and change throughout the year, but the big plus this year is there will be players in most positions ready to take baton.

Excellent summary but please no future A grader Owens in the ruck going forward! Find a proper second ruck or someone we can afford to lose to injury!

 

[saintmike65]

Without question competition for positions is a good thing, its something that all the top teams have and we are not far off it. We have recruited really well in the past 3 years and those players have lifted the expectations on our mature players. It will be interesting to see who steps up and grabs their opportunities once the practice matches and games begin. Its one thing looking good in intra club scratch matches, its another playing against real opposition.

Our midfield and centre clearances have been our greatest weakness and we know what will get from Steele, Crouch & Ross. So if we can have players like - Clark, Jones, Dow, Henry, Brynes inform to chose from and develop those coming through - Phillipou, Owens, Windhager, Hotton, Wilson and Garcia all of a sudden our midfield will become a strength.

We saw the Hill effect when Ratten moved him to the half back, we were basically playing with 5 defenders. Contrarily Sinclair and NWM have the perfect balance of defence and attacking games so unless they are injured I cant see Bonner playing, but he will be good depth. The other small defender will be asked to play the lock down role Stocker, Webster, Paton (I doubt Bonner is that). Plus we will have Windhager, Clark and Sharman who can rotate through the back half if needed.

In the short term if Butler is not fit to start the season, we will have to find a pressure forward. I dont think Collard will be up to it, so it may fall to Byrnes, Hotton or Garcia to play that role. We may go a little taller and give Wilson the chance, but currently I see Wilson competing with Hill and Phillipou for a start in the high half forward position.

For future planning we need to find a player who can play 30% through the ruck and take some load off Marshall. Owens played the role last season and did well so perhaps he gets the gig going forward? Caminiti has had stints in there aswell so perhaps we already have the answers. Howard is servicable at full back but our aim should be to find or develop a dominant full back. If we can rely on our midfield and then the defensive 6 to win their share of contests, then our forwards wont have to compress the ground so far. Surely that in turn allows our forward 6 to function more efficiently and play the game in our front half rather than in our defence.

Obviously our opinions on fringe players will chop and change throughout the year, but the big plus this year is there will be players in most positions ready to take baton.

Nice work but I wouldn’t rule out Collard!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Excellent summary but please no future A grader Owens in the ruck going forward! Find a proper second ruck or someone we can afford to lose to injury!

What injuries are ruckmen prone to?