Stengleins value 'through the roof'

[Cove Cobra]

After watching last night's game in Sydney' Stinger's value must have shot up by quite a way I reckon.

Woosha and his committee would have been sitting there working out the trade at 3/4 time!!!

Absolutely NO ACCOUNTABILITY shown by the WC players. This is one of Stingers best assets in his all-round footballing abilities and EXACTLY why WC will chase and chase HARD FOR HIM.

Accountability = 15 to 20 extra stats on the 'invisible' tally sheet.

 

[macca23]

After watching last night's game in Sydney' Stinger's value must have shot up by quite a way I reckon.

Woosha and his committee would have been sitting there working out the trade at 3/4 time!!!

Absolutely NO ACCOUNTABILITY shown by the WC players. This is one of Stingers best assets in his all-round footballing abilities and EXACTLY why WC will chase and chase HARD FOR HIM.

Accountability = 15 to 20 extra stats on the 'invisible' tally sheet.

Correct. It seems obvious to all but the most narrow-minded WCE supporters that they have this glaring hole in their mid-field - a lack of accountability. They all run forward of the ball without concern for their opponent.

That's great when you're well on top, but will always burn you in the tough tussles, and can never win you a final, as we saw.

I don't want Stinga to go, but I'm even more certain that he will after the WCE mid-field's pathetic effort last night, as Woosha will have upped the ante to ensure that they do a trade to get Stenglein.

Unlike some of the supporters, Woosha isn't blind.

 

[spindoctor]

Correct. It seems obvious to all but the most narrow-minded WCE supporters that they have this glaring hole in their mid-field - a lack of accountability. They all run forward of the ball without concern for their opponent.

That's great when you're well on top, but will always burn you in the tough tussles, and can never win you a final, as we saw.

I don't want Stinga to go, but I'm even more certain that he will after the WCE mid-field's pathetic effort last night, as Woosha will have upped the ante to ensure that they do a trade to get Stenglein.

Unlike some of the supporters, Woosha isn't blind.

Must be hurting Woosha to see such a soft team considering how good he was defensively in his time.

Laughable that so many WCE say they don't need a midfielder of Stenglein's type and he would not even make their team.

Yeh funny. Last laugh is with us...think a few of them will be staying away from our board for a while...I wonder why.

Another pathetic finals performance from a team that doesn't know the meaning of the word 'accountable'. Much like Port, it's all well and good to go through the season guns blazing, but finals football is harsh and negative, and you need accountability to win a game.

 

[Macca19]

Another pathetic finals performance from a team that doesn't know the meaning of the word 'accountable'. Much like Port, it's all well and good to go through the season guns blazing, but finals football is harsh and negative, and you need accountability to win a game.

Pretty funny thing to say considering last year the major criticism of Port from Port fans was that we didnt have enough outright midfielders and that playing 4 taggers in a side was ridiculous.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Actually, during the game I imagine the coaching staff were hoping the Hay - homesickness rumours were true. With Hall, Goodes and O'Loughlin up front, the eagles were seriously stretched.

Get it through your thick heads, WC's strength is their midfield, no point paying through our teeth to strengthen it more when we have other areas of greater concern.

 

[mickyj]

I sat here watching it on the telly thinking they dont tyson yeah right i reckon west coast were on the phone this am asking what u want again lol

 

[Mead]

So to summarise-
"You don't want to send us your best quality young talent for a guy who is leaving no matter want. Therefore we don't like you, and you just lost a game, nyah nyah nyah."

Brilliant argument.

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but sheesh, I suppose one more time wouldn't hurt. We'd like Stenglein, he'd be an asset to our team, he's just not the #1 priority, and he's not someone we'd be prepared to trade our best quality kids for, since that would set us back just as far as we gained.
We're not in the charity business, and a deal which is going to hurt us or put us no further ahead than we were is worse than no deal at all.

As it was, our midfield was pretty horribly understrength yesterday- Cousins and Kerr were both playing injured and were hidden in the forward line, Chick was required in defence, and that kid who you'd all be doing cartwheels about if we were dumb enough to make a Stenglein/Waters swap, wasn't even playing.

The last laugh will occur when tradeweek comes around, and I don't think it will be your lot doing the laughing.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I don't know that his value went 'throught the roof' but it certainly highlighted the fact that WC do need Stinger more than some of their supporters think.

Stinger's value yesterday and today was the same. I think a reasonable trade is for Eagles first pick (I think its pick 12) and I think that is whats likely to happen and I would be happy with that. However, I know that AFC want a player because our midfield has been losing an important member every year for the past 3 years and be have not been able to replace them. Thats why I think AFC want a player of equal quality.

As I have said a million of times before, I see this trade getting done and there are 3 possibilities.

1) Probably unlikely but Water or Butler for Stinger
2) Stinger for Pick 12 (a good chance)
3) A 3 way deal that lands us a player that we like from some other club. Maybe Scott Thompson from Melbourne.

I think second option is most likely. Then we would have some decent picks to stock up on quality youth. With picks 8, 12 and 24 we could possibly get Monfries/Eckermann, Wood and maybe Meyer. 3 quality SA kids that show plenty of promise and we can develop and build the team around.

 

[Monocle]

I don't know that his value went 'throught the roof' but it certainly highlighted the fact that WC do need Stinger more than some of their supporters think.

Stinger's value yesterday and today was the same. I think a reasonable trade is for Eagles first pick (I think its pick 12) and I think that is whats likely to happen and I would be happy with that. However, I know that AFC want a player because our midfield has been losing an important member every year for the past 3 years and be have not been able to replace them. Thats why I think AFC want a player of equal quality.

As I have said a million of times before, I see this trade getting done and there are 3 possibilities.

1) Probably unlikely but Water or Butler for Stinger
2) Stinger for Pick 12 (a good chance)
3) A 3 way deal that lands us a player that we like from some other club. Maybe Scott Thompson from Melbourne.

I think second option is most likely. Then we would have some decent picks to stock up on quality youth. With picks 8, 12 and 24 we could possibly get Monfries/Eckermann, Wood and maybe Meyer. 3 quality SA kids that show plenty of promise and we can develop and build the team around.

Stiffy well put you are one of the more realistic AFC posters.

To all those Crows who take the attitude" you lost therefore you need Stinger as your number 1 priority, so give us more today than he was worth yesterday"

Yes we have weaknesses in our side ,like I would suggest most sides do.

A first round draft pick would be more than fair. Dont get greedy.

 

[theorangeapple]

for me, last nights dismal performance would not have changed stengliens value to the side. we beat sydney's midfield in all facets; clearances, centre breaks, tap outs and possesion wise. last night we were shown out for not having experience/ quality (yet) in the key positions. we also were soft at the ball, which hasnt been a trait this year but reared its head last night. i think last night showed we have a much higher need than a disgruntled midfielder, we need guy like hay or tarrant (who doesnt?) or possibly even gasper.

 

[Mead]

I don't know that his value went 'throught the roof' but it certainly highlighted the fact that WC do need Stinger more than some of their supporters think.

Stinger's value yesterday and today was the same. I think a reasonable trade is for Eagles first pick (I think its pick 12) and I think that is whats likely to happen and I would be happy with that. However, I know that AFC want a player because our midfield has been losing an important member every year for the past 3 years and be have not been able to replace them. Thats why I think AFC want a player of equal quality.

As I have said a million of times before, I see this trade getting done and there are 3 possibilities.

1) Probably unlikely but Water or Butler for Stinger
2) Stinger for Pick 12 (a good chance)
3) A 3 way deal that lands us a player that we like from some other club. Maybe Scott Thompson from Melbourne.

I think second option is most likely. Then we would have some decent picks to stock up on quality youth. With picks 8, 12 and 24 we could possibly get Monfries/Eckermann, Wood and maybe Meyer. 3 quality SA kids that show plenty of promise and we can develop and build the team around.

Pick #12 would not be out of the question, although it would probably be dependent on some other trading by WC for another first round pick. I think we'll probably go trawling in melbourne and see if we can get a look at another late first rounder with the likes of Morrison Chambers, Paul Johnson + our 2nd rounder. If we can net another 1st rounder from an obliging club like Carlton or Richmond then I think we'd be prepared to trade for Stenglein.

 

[F-U]

If anything Stengleins value went through the floor because last nights game showed that we need more key KPP's and in the end will probably result in Eagles targeting KPP's before Stenglein. Basically this thread just proves that Adelaide fans know nothing about football...

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I don't know that his value went 'throught the roof' but it certainly highlighted the fact that WC do need Stinger more than some of their supporters think.

Stinger's value yesterday and today was the same. I think a reasonable trade is for Eagles first pick (I think its pick 12) and I think that is whats likely to happen and I would be happy with that. However, I know that AFC want a player because our midfield has been losing an important member every year for the past 3 years and be have not been able to replace them. Thats why I think AFC want a player of equal quality.

As I have said a million of times before, I see this trade getting done and there are 3 possibilities.

1) Probably unlikely but Water or Butler for Stinger
2) Stinger for Pick 12 (a good chance)
3) A 3 way deal that lands us a player that we like from some other club. Maybe Scott Thompson from Melbourne.

I think second option is most likely. Then we would have some decent picks to stock up on quality youth. With picks 8, 12 and 24 we could possibly get Monfries/Eckermann, Wood and maybe Meyer. 3 quality SA kids that show plenty of promise and we can develop and build the team around.

Stiffy, I see it pretty much the same way, with the draft choices as you do.

 

[spindoctor]

If anything Stengleins value went through the floor because last nights game showed that we need more key KPP's and in the end will probably result in Eagles targeting KPP's before Stenglein. Basically this thread just proves that Adelaide fans know nothing about football...

Hahahaha...pretty funny claiming your midfield beat Sydney's...considering your much vaunted midfield came in with a low possession count in the majority of cases (Fletcher excluded) and you got torched by the likes of Williams and Kirk. Judd got SMASHED by Williams - again, accountability non-existent.

Let me quote from the game rundown: 'It was an unrelenting wave of red and white shirts that commanded the footy at the clearances, Paul Williams leading the charge with 25 touches.'

And weren't you telling us how great all your young KPPs are? Don'[t suddenly change your tune and now say it 'proves' you need KPPs either. Because you told us all was rosy and you don't need to trade at all.

To say your midfield was not smashed in that game was laughable. Get a grip, West Coast fans, stop with the rose-coloured glasses and finally admit your midfield has a problem.

 

[Monocle]

So Spindoctor are you going to elaborate what you would consider a suitable and appropriate trade ,or are you just going to tip buckets on the West Coast midfield that you dont rate .

 

[macca23]

i think last night showed we have a much higher need than a disgruntled midfielder, we need guy like hay or tarrant (who doesnt?) or possibly even gasper.

Surely you don't mean Gaspar, the half-back flanker sized key position player for Richmond, who averaged just over 8 disposals per game in his 19 matches this year, at a cost of around $4000 per disposal??

You really have no idea if you're serious about THAT Gaspar!!

 

[snakebite01]

So Spindoctor are you going to elaborate what you would consider a suitable and appropriate trade ,or are you just going to tip buckets on the West Coast midfield that you dont rate .

There probably isn't a 'suitable' trade. Both sets of supporters see the situation completely differently.

As Adelaide supporters, we basically want someone young who can come in and play next year because as has been previously stated, we have lost one of our major 3 ballwinners each year for the past 3 years. We want the absolute best deal for us, which may be unrealistic in what we want, but that's what you get when you have invested 6 years into a player that we rate extremely highly.

As West Coast supporters, you guys seem to not want to part with any quality players, but as the saying goes to get quality you have to give up quality. Some of you seem to think that your first round draft pick is more than an adequate compensation, and most of us also agree that in a normal situation that would be a fair trade, possibly favouring Adelaide.

However in our current situation, we need a player who can play next year in a midfield role and a player from this year's draft probably won't be able to do that. That is why we want Waters/Butler but you don't want to part with them, which is understandable.

The deal may have to involve a third party, or may just have to be with Fremantle if they are willing to give up what we want. After all, the ball is in our court. Your club can trade with us for the player they have been after for several years, or you can miss out on him, and we will happily keep him.

 

[Monocle]

Snakebite01 thanks for your insightful and intelligent reply.

It gives a realistic perspective of the Crows position. Given the background I would agree that a direct trade looks very unlikley. You may well get somthing better from the Dockers, although the mail in the West is that they have Carr as their top priority. If you cant negotiate a trade I genuinely hope you can hold him.

Cheers.

 

[snakebite01]

Snakebite01 thanks for your insightful and intelligent reply.

It gives a realistic perspective of the Crows position. Given the background I would agree that a direct trade looks very unlikley. You may well get somthing better from the Dockers, although the mail in the West is that they have Carr as their top priority. If you cant negotiate a trade I genuinely hope you can hold him.

Cheers.

No worries. I can see the position you guys are in. If it was my club, I wouldn't want to give up Waters or Butler for a player who you guys probably haven't seen too much of and might not understand our high praises of him, but believe me once you see more of him in your team, you will realise why we have such a high opinion of him. His leadership qualities and ball winning ability will be sorely missed next year especially with our current team.

It is a difficult situation, becasue realistically both clubs want to get a slightly better deal than what they should get. Stenglein for your first round pick is probably the trade that would be deemed the fairest of those suggested, by both sets of suporters. However the AFC seems determined to gain a player of equal quality, not draft picks which makes it difficult for WC. Time will tell.

 

[spindoctor]

Snakebite01 thanks for your insightful and intelligent reply.

It gives a realistic perspective of the Crows position. Given the background I would agree that a direct trade looks very unlikley. You may well get somthing better from the Dockers, although the mail in the West is that they have Carr as their top priority. If you cant negotiate a trade I genuinely hope you can hold him.

Cheers.

I am not dumping on West Coast's midfield, it is a superb one, but certain elements of it that some WCE supporters seem completely blind to admit is a problem.

As snakebite said, Stenglein normally would net pick 12 in this kind of draft, but our midfield is so depleted now we really need someone who CAN play straight away.

 

[theorangeapple]

Hahahaha...pretty funny claiming your midfield beat Sydney's...considering your much vaunted midfield came in with a low possession count in the majority of cases (Fletcher excluded) and you got torched by the likes of Williams and Kirk. Judd got SMASHED by Williams - again, accountability non-existent.

Let me quote from the game rundown: 'It was an unrelenting wave of red and white shirts that commanded the footy at the clearances, Paul Williams leading the charge with 25 touches.'

tad harsh on judd. he played the opening 15 minutes on williams, juddy opened a can of whoop and they put bolton on juddy to tag him. judd subsequently was moved forward. williams did hurt us, but judd was not responsible for him. i think fletcher was.

lets not forget, stenglein hasnt been remarkable at stopping players this year either. considering he is viewed as a good defensive player he hasnt done huge jobs this year.

 

[Crow-mosone]

So to summarise-
"You don't want to send us your best quality young talent for a guy who is leaving no matter want. Therefore we don't like you, and you just lost a game, nyah nyah nyah."

Brilliant argument.

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but sheesh, I suppose one more time wouldn't hurt. We'd like Stenglein, he'd be an asset to our team, he's just not the #1 priority, and he's not someone we'd be prepared to trade our best quality kids for, since that would set us back just as far as we gained.
We're not in the charity business, and a deal which is going to hurt us or put us no further ahead than we were is worse than no deal at all.

As it was, our midfield was pretty horribly understrength yesterday- Cousins and Kerr were both playing injured and were hidden in the forward line, Chick was required in defence, and that kid who you'd all be doing cartwheels about if we were dumb enough to make a Stenglein/Waters swap, wasn't even playing.

The last laugh will occur when tradeweek comes around, and I don't think it will be your lot doing the laughing.

I said to you over a week ago, that your midfield lacks accountability and runs forward without regard, and it's still true.
that you fail to understand this hardly invalidates the criticism that is plain for all to see.

all I read in your post here is denial and excuses.

 

[spindoctor]

Funny how they bring out the 'Cousins and Kerr were injured' line now when they've been smashed. Doesn't run, guys. Brisbane's midfield has plaed hurt the last several finals series and still dominated, pathetic excuses like that don't wash. If they're on the field, they're fit to play.

Chick hasn't played much in the midfield this season anyway, can't use that excuse.

Waters isn't an important cog in your team yet either, so can't use that excuse.

As Crow-mosone said: denials and excuses. Your midfield got mauled, it was pathetic and unaccountable. The end.

Stengelin hasn't been used as a pure tagger this season, as a defensive midfielder instead. Very different role. He did shut down your precious Cousins earlier this season though.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Stiffy, I see it pretty much the same way, with the draft choices as you do.

You agree with me in terms of what would be good pick up with the picks??????

I just think one of Monfries or Eckermann is what we need. One thing that concerns me with Eckermann is that he is Matthew Bode size (177 cm / 74 kg) but he has pace to burn and exceptional skills

Monfries it really good in close and has some of the cleanest pair of hands I have seen in juniors. Also exceptionals skills, bit taller (180 cm / 70 kg) but doesn't have the pace of Eckermann.

I would probably go with Monfries because he is bit more mature and could play a handful of games as soon as next year but I wouldn't be disappointed with either of them. Both are very similar to Byron Schammer.

General feeling is that Cameron Wood is the best ruck prospect in the draft and I would prefer him over other prospects simply because he is SA lad and is coached by Shaun Rehn. He will give us a young ruckman to develop so he is ready in 3-4 years time. Athletic, tall has a great leap and can take a good grab. At least it gives us something to work with.

Danny Meyer is a classy HFF/onballer and has decent height (186 cm) and good skills as well as good pace. I doubt whether he will be available at pick 24 but if he was I would take him.

Bottom line Monfries/Eckermann, Wood, Meyer and hopefully another gem that we pick up with pick 40, would give us decent injection of talented youth into the club and would address our weakest area (onballers and a ruckman)

 

[conVINCEd]

Agree with what you say, Stiffy.

IMO, I think the Eagles would give us their first rounder, and I think we should take it (assuming they won't give Waters).

The club is saying they want a player, but how short-sighted is that? I thought we (by we, I mean Crows fans on this board, apart from jc and friends) had finally realised that we desperately need to rebuild. So why wouldn't we want a second first round draft pick?

I would take whoever the Pies don't take out of Monfries and Eckermann with our first pick (#8 - probably Eckermann and I'd be happy with him), and with our second pick (#12) I would go with Jordan Lewis if he is available. Hard and tough at the footy, he is exactly what we need. Take the best available ruckman with our second round pick.

For Reid to say we only want a player and don't want a draft pick is stupid, short-sighted and a repeat of everything that we have done in the last few years - throw away quality draft picks.