Stephanie Scott Murder

[Shell]

Wth- attempted to strangle a teacher at age 12 whichever country he came from. Was admitted to a mental hospital, was assessed as having psycho-sexual tendencies, etc.

Allowed to live and work (in a school) in Australia.

What the serious ****.

A true psychopath, no emotion, no feeling, no remorse and totally disjointed from human nature.

Defence claiming autism but in reflection of his crime and behaviour told a different story

Chilling isn't it. With Bayley he had an intense hatred/anger towards women- at least it's some kind of explanation. This guy was talking about killing a woman like he was making a cup of tea.

 

[IKE TURNER]

Wth- attempted to strangle a teacher at age 12 whichever country he came from. Was admitted to a mental hospital, was assessed as having psycho-sexual tendencies, etc.

Allowed to live and work (in a school) in Australia.

What the serious ****.



Chilling isn't it. With Bayley he had an intense hatred/anger towards women- at least it's some kind of explanation. This guy was talking about killing a woman like he was making a cup of tea.

 

[IKE TURNER]

two things nag it me with this tragic case: 1) how someone with his past can work at schools and secondly everyone was on the edge of their chair-will he or wont he get life and the relief when he did get life but a crime this terrible should have only one conclusion: no ifs and puts LIFE it shouldn't have even been a remote chance that it wasn't going to be life

 

[_Mike_]

This guy was talking about killing a woman like he was making a cup of tea.

The most dangerous type of people fall into this category, they are physically hard wired that way. I'm not sure if modern science has been able to work out why as yet. The plasticity of the brain surely has the capability to be used to rewire someone of this particular nature. But then what do we become, if we are the ones who are changing the mindsets of others.

 

[Shell]

two things nag it me with this tragic case: 1) how someone with his past can work at schools and secondly everyone was on the edge of their chair-will he or wont he get life and the relief when he did get life but a crime this terrible should have only one conclusion: no ifs and puts LIFE it shouldn't have even been a remote chance that it wasn't going to be life

Victoria the soft **** state would have given him a minimum. How has Bayley got a minimum (yet hopefully the bastard dies before even the idea of parole comes up) and still not receive the maximum for rape after how many ****ing rapes has he commited.

Much respect to that judge in NSW who stamped his file never to be released.

 

[_Mike_]

Victoria the soft **** state would have given him a minimum.

This is the issue Shell

Victorian CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 3
Punishment for murder
(1) Notwithstanding any rule of law to the contrary, a person convicted of murder is liable to—

S. 3(a) substituted by No. 49/1991 s. 119(1)
(Sch. 2 item 1(b)), amended by No. 48/1997
s. 60(1)(Sch. 1 item 1).

(a) level 1 imprisonment (life); or

S. 3(b) amended by No. 49/1991 s. 119(1)
(Sch. 2 item 1(c)).

(b) imprisonment for such other term as is fixed by the court— as the court determines.

S. 3(b) must/should be changed to have a set minimum such as the United States - 25 years minimum for a premeditated murder.

 

[Shell]

But they can still hold someone in prison indefinitely regardless? Eg. Julian Knight.

 

[_Mike_]

But they can still hold someone in prison indefinitely regardless? Eg. Julian Knight.

yes because the Act implies - as determined by the Court. The sentencing Justice will take into account precedent, the background/record of the person found guilty by their peers and the likely hood of that person rehabilitating. Its a fine balance between being too compassionate versus being harsh.

If more people started pressuring their local politicians, people actually do have the power to change the law. The crimes act and sentencing acts are legislation - not common law to which the Court must follow. We've seen how public pressure in NSW forced the government's hand in creating the one-punch law which was implemented and enacted by parliament to become binding law.

If enough people believe that they can make a difference, collectively they will

 

[Shell]

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...r/news-story/7df2281d34c90f37c30a58c11048d91a

1. Don't understand how these people- students and teachers can go back to that school. As someone who works at a high school I don't even know if I could- I definitely would not want to go anywhere near the actual site where it happened.

2. So the prick loves isolation. Well that's just great, sounds like he'll actually enjoy his life sentence. This is another reason why I wish we had the death penalty.

 

[Thrawn]

This is another reason why I wish we had the death penalty.

I'm glad we don't.

 

[_Mike_]

I'm glad we don't.

Being locked up for 23 hours a day not being able to take a dump without someone constantly watching, in a small room with a tiny window and no interaction for the rest of your life is far worse a punishment than death

 

[2006_Eagles]

Wth- attempted to strangle a teacher at age 12 whichever country he came from. Was admitted to a mental hospital, was assessed as having psycho-sexual tendencies, etc.

Allowed to live and work (in a school) in Australia.

What the serious ****.

How woefully inadequate are the background checks SMDH

 

[2006_Eagles]

Has there been any suggestions that there relationship was more than teacher / cleaner.

WTH?

Are you trying to inject some sick plot twist here?

 

[_Mike_]

no twist, except that the guilty is a twisted person themselves.

 

[Donners]

Victoria the soft **** state would have given him a minimum.

Here's one from NSW:

- anally rapes a 5-yo and gets 4 years NPP
- has his parole revoked within a month of release
- abducts and anally rapes another a 5-yo and abducts an attempts to rape 9-yo on separate occasions and gets 8 years NPP (and escapes prison at one point)
- murders a man and repeatedly rapes his 10-yo stepdaughter

And he still got a non-parole period.

S. 3(b) must/should be changed to have a set minimum such as the United States - 25 years minimum for a premeditated murder.

I don't think there should ever be a minimum term. There will always be exceptions for which it is inapt.

Parliament has ways of increasing sentences without taking away all discretion.

 

[The Lemon]

The poor mother. Losing the daughter and now the husband. So sad.

 

[ossie_21]

http://www.theage.com.au/nsw/robert...anie-scott-killed-in-accident-20161101-gsfl4e

Feeling for the family so much, gutting

 

[2006_Eagles]

How the hell is the Mother going to cope now

 

[The Lemon]

How the hell is the Mother going to cope now

Nfi.

 

[Shell]

I literally did a double take when I heard it on the news tonight.

So ****ing sad and just horrendous for that poor family.

 

[IRemember]

I literally did a double take when I heard it on the news tonight.

So ****ing sad and just horrendous for that poor family.

I agree! My heart goes out to Stephanie's family, fiancé and friends

 

[IRemember]

A true psychopath, no emotion, no feeling, no remorse and totally disjointed from human nature.

Defence claiming autism but in reflection of his crime and behaviour told a different story

Mike, I agree with you that there was more than just Autism going on here. May I offer some alternative thoughts??......
Firstly, I feel deep sympathy for Stephanie's family, fiancé and friends and we must never forget that her precious life was cut off by an evil act.
However, I can't help feeling that Vincent Stanford's family of origin could have prevented this from ever occurring had they (especially his mother) had the will or insight to seek out early intervention for him. They obviously did not have the required motivation to get him the necessary treatment and social guidance/assistance as he was growing up. Of course he IS guilty, but prior to this murder, some warning signs were there and it doesn't seem that the significant adults or family members in his life had any idea of the level of assistance and supervision he required.
Following the attack on the teacher in the Netherlands, he should have had ongoing assessments for YEARS and a supported vocational program......and certainly NOT a job in another school. His mother should have been responsible enough to recommend greater supervision for her son or help him seek an alternative employment activity. From a report of a previous employer of Vincent's in the Netherlands.....his mother had not been proactive in teaching her son basic hygiene and social skills. This employer (who was obviously a decent family man) and his wife, took it upon themselves to help Vincent with many of the basic life skills that his family should have trained him in. It is a shame that these things were not followed up as there are many supported employment options for young adults with special needs. Also, any recommendations to monitor or reassess Vincent were clearly not passed on to Australian authorities which is perhaps a failing of international law and reporting systems.
As a mother of a son with autism, I guess I see another side to this. While, on the whole, autistic young people would not be considered a risk to others (especially outside the family), many young autistics really do struggle interpreting their world and ACCEPTING RULES that they DO NOT SEE AS RELEVANT. They have a problem with 'theory of mind' that can impair their insight into how others think, feel and see the world. This doesn't mean they don't care or are cold.....however it can mean they misread others and social interactions. They consequently fail to understand boundaries and why these things are important. While many are very capable and extremely gifted in special areas of interest.....in the realm of social interaction they are lacking. They can find it very challenging to cope with all the unwritten 'rules' and expectations that society and relationships require....so they can really struggle without supportive family and friends to understand and guide them through the maze. This is why so many of these people become 'loners' or attracted to the logic of technology. They relate to others through the safety net of gaming or the internet for a reason......not just because they are gifted in this area.
They can get easily frustrated, anxious and unable to control or cope with thoughts and emotions. Meltdowns are common due to them feeling overwhelmed, and sleep disturbance is often an issue. My son is only 11 and yet he has hit me quite hard on many occasions because he was overwhelmed and couldn't find the words to express himself or describe his feelings. While there is a reason for this violence towards me.....I did NOT allow it to go unpunished. I made sure he lost privileges he loves, so that he understood the consequences to his actions - BUT at the same time, I had to do better to help him to find acceptable ways to express his emotions and distress earlier. Typically, he is always remorseful and sweet later on and realises he had done something wrong.
Unfortunately, this young man (Vincent) does not seem to have had the necessary support and watchful eye needed. Parents of young people on the autistic spectrum often need to offer extra support, boundaries and be a safety net even AFTER the young person has reached adulthood. They need to give their child space and independence, while still being available and ready to step in if they do see them isolating or not coping with their escalating anxiety or obsessional behaviours.
While I am extremely saddened for the family, fiancé and friends of Ms Scott......I can't help feeling that this young man (and his twin brother), were not given a great start to life and were lacking in areas of development and socially appropriate behaviour because of this. I can see where the adults in their lives failed them. I know it takes a lot of work, repetition, and supervision.....but as parents of special needs young people, we must understand that is our responsibility. I had to learn how to parent a child with autism and sensory processing issues. I made many mistakes along the way and had to correct these and move forward. But we can't ever give up on them and decide it's too hard. So I take my parenting role seriously, and naturally I see my son as a blessing to me and others. He is a lot of fun and very creative in areas. He has a lot to offer the world, but to make sure that happens......the buck stops with me!
Unfortunately his mother for some reason appears to have not actively sought out treatment (I wonder if Vincent's mother herself struggles with a debilitating mental health issue or some form of social anxiety??). She also chose to live in an area where treatment and accommodation was NOT readily available for Vincent. Rural regions unfortunately have fewer specialist support networks for special needs people than urban regions. Even though help is not easy to come by at times, as parents of special needs children, we must make the effort and keep asking for help. Also, as parents, we do have a responsibility to frequently reassess whether our children are safe (for themselves and towards others), and how much ongoing support they need.
Incidentally, the sibling of a special needs child does feel a certain need to protect them and defend them from the world. Remember they have seen their sibling mocked and bullied as they grew up and it would have troubled them. This does not excuse Vincent's brother's actions but it does explain them.
This is VERY long (sorry) but to conclude..... I personally don't see Vincent Stanford as an 'animal' as some commentators here do...... but as a very flawed and neglected human who made shocking and permanently devastating choices. He then very clumsily attempted to cover up what he did in much the same way a child does to avoid getting caught. (ie. A child thinks they can sweep away the cake crumbs and no one will know.....they don't realise that Mum or Dad know that they bought the cake yesterday and it is now missing and their kids shirt has chocolate on it). Also, the fact that he may have gone home for his lunch or a snack after his attack says more about the importance of routines to an autistic than about cold psychopathic behaviour. His demeanour in describing his crimes are more likely to be about the need to be factually accurate. In an autistic person's mind he knows he did wrong and feels bad, but he presumes that others must already know that so why does he need to display that to the police interviewing him? It is that inability to see that others may have a different perspective. He doesn't know that he needs to express his remorse or sadness about his actions publicly.....and it makes him feel anxious to do that anyway.
I hope this helps people understand this case a little better (and again sorry it is so long).

 

[IRemember]

Chilling isn't it. With Bayley he had an intense hatred/anger towards women- at least it's some kind of explanation. This guy was talking about killing a woman like he was making a cup of tea.

Shell....please see my post above about this.
His lack of emotion in describing his actions and crime may not be so much about having no remorse or empathy.....but it is very typical of autistic behaviour when asked the facts of an incident. In his mind, the Police - an authority to be respected or feared - asked him for details so he was doing what was asked of him - quite literally! He was in a stressful situation without any family or a therapist to help him interpret the full meaning of the Police questioning. He was trying to be factual and failed to understand that he needed to convey any remorse or apology that he felt inside. For you and I that would be obvious and we would want the family of Stephanie to know how sorry we were if we were confessing to that terrible crime.
Autistic people DO feel empathy and pain.....but they struggle to express it appropriately. For example...I had to help my son (with autism, Tourette syndrome and sensory issues) to share his sadness when my sister suddenly died. He buried himself in his routines (and was even more demanding in his routines), he talked endlessly about his special interests to distract himself, and didn't ask me how I felt at all, but I knew he was sad for me that I lost my sister. And I couldn't just ask him how he felt.....he didn't know what this horrible feeling he had was. So we read social stories about someone dying and how their child felt. I sent him little letters and emails from Aunty Pippa in heaven and they spoke about a little angel puppy with wings that she was looking after for him. We found a special Kangaroo Paw plant to put on her gravesite and watered it. It was only after these practical actions that I could even get him to acknowledge any feelings about her death at all. He felt the loss and missed her deeply, but couldn't express himself.
What we consider to be appropriate displays of emotion or empathy is more difficult for autistic people to express unless they have had adequate educational support and social training. There are many other neurological or dissociative type disorders that show this same difficulty with recognising and displaying appropriate emotions and behaviours to trauma, stress, loss or guilt etc.

 

[_Mike_]

made shocking and permanently devastating choices

This is the crux of the issue. Autism has a broad spectrum and it is not defined as a medical condition that makes one totally incompetent with decision making. Whilst Autism can be a hindrance to the development of a person, its no were near the same context as someone who suffers from a debilitating illness such as bipolar disorder or schizophrenia.

There are large numbers of people in society living normal lives who have a degree of autism, Ive seen it first hand with the children of family friends. Ultimately the decision to kill someone in cold blood falls back on Stanford and his plot to cover up the murder appears to be a clear indication of guilt. Autistic people still know the difference between right and wrong, and the moment we start looking for excuses for his behavior lessens the impact of the truth to the matter and what the family of the victims have had to endure through no fault of their own.

The gaps in the public health system and handling of these type of cases is one thing, but in no way does it make the person not accountable for their decision and consequences.

 

[craffles]

CSK thread gets shut down because of whack jobs and these posts are entertained?

Sorry IRemember but vincent committed a horrific crime and whether he did or did not have autism is no excuse.