Stephen Hill first impressions

[Wizard]

He looks ok, but not taking Rich, what a blunder

Rich and Palmer could have formed the core of a great midfield in the future.

Not taking Joel Selwood................ what a blunder.

 

[Memories]

Have you jumped off the Hill bandwagon already?

Champion players get teams to grand finals (Even if they don't always win them).Rich reminds me allot of Haselby, will be a good player without ever being a game breaker...Hill has the potential to be a game breaker...I think with Palmer, Crowley, Mundy and Ibbotson you have a bunch of toilers without any being game breakers...Hill is the x-factor we needed.

Of course Hill was a bigger risk than Rich, no one would ever say otherwise..However one might argue that Natanui is a bigger risk than Rich as well...Rich was the surest thing in the draft, did all 6 clubs make a mistake?

While your comparing Wells to Hill, why not compare him to Sampi as well...Or JON...

Without realising it people compare aboriginal players to other aboriginal players...When it doesn't necessary mean they are similar type players.

Was Well's ever as desperate or hard at it as Hill? Other than pace around the ball, what else do they have in common?

Why not compare Hill to Mcloed?

I was never on the Hill bandwagon, if he even gets to "fringe 22" status I will be impressed. I did realize I was comparing him to another aboriginal, that is why I brought up Wells, he was a skinny, similar height as Hill, aboriginal kid that failed to live up to expectations. You might say our pick 3 has failed to live up to his expectations in his first games, that doesn't mean we should sack him, but it is disappointing.

It is quite likely though that Hill may have slipped to our second pick, I would have rather taken the chance on missing Hill whilst picking up a "sure thing" with Rich. It seems to me our recruiters were on a different planet when they picked who they did, small forwards, rucks, flankers, with no good mids. How you can be happy with that draft when we didn't even attempt to fix our likely 16th placed midfield in the slightest is beyond me.

 

[Memories]

jesus christ why does every stephen hill thread turn into a "bag the shit out of daniel wells" thread

Daniel Wells is a very good player in a much better side than fremantle who is still improving and good luck to hill, he should be happy if he ever reaches that level (can't see it happening myself)

Daniel Wells is a "very good" player is he? A midfielder who averages 17 disposals and 0.5 goals a game is slightly above average and far from "very good". Palmer, a first year player, was more effective in his rookie year than Wells was even last year. In his first year he got more goals, more tackles, more disposals, more inside 50s than Wells has averaged over his entire career.

 

[Wizard]

It is quite likely though that Hill may have slipped to our second pick, I would have rather taken the chance on missing Hill whilst picking up a "sure thing" with Rich. It seems to me our recruiters were on a different planet when they picked who they did, small forwards, rucks, flankers, with no good mids. How you can be happy with that draft when we didn't even attempt to fix our likely 16th placed midfield in the slightest is beyond me.

Every midfield needs outside players.
You cant possibly tell me you never considered Andrew McLeod a midfielder, dont consider Wells as a midfielder or never considered Matera or Long as mids.
Thats where the comparisons are with Hills style of play, not every midfielder is burying under packs Sam Mitchell style.
We have Palmer, Suban, Ibbo, Schammer, Hasleby and Mundy that will get the clearances and guys like Hill that will run with the ball and deliver to our forwards.
The issue with our midfield at the moment is because there has been such a changing of the guard they are quite young and have never played much footy together. Getting the clearances isn't our problem, its making them count with quality which is why a guy like Hill is required.

 

[Memories]

Every midfield needs outside players.
You cant possibly tell me you never considered Andrew McLeod a midfielder, dont consider Wells as a midfielder or never considered Matera or Long as mids.
Thats where the comparisons are with Hills style of play, not every midfielder is burying under packs Sam Mitchell style.
We have Palmer, Suban, Ibbo, Schammer, Hasleby and Mundy that will get the clearances and guys like Hill that will run with the ball and deliver to our forwards.
The issue with our midfield at the moment is because there has been such a changing of the guard they are quite young and have never played much footy together. Getting the clearances isn't our problem, its making them count with quality which is why a guy like Hill is required.

So you are fine with only having 2 real ball winners in Hase and Palmer then? Think we never need to address that little issue? What point is there in having outside players like Headland and Hill when you never win the ball to begin with? And yes, getting decent clearances is our problem, and has been our problem since our inception.

To think that Rich couldn't handball out to a running Palmer is also some stupid idea people get in their heads. Rich and Palmer aren't that slow and they both have good hands, they are faster than Hasleby.

 

[Wizard]

So you are fine with only having 2 real ball winners in Hase and Palmer then? Think we never need to address that little issue? What point is there in having outside players like Headland and Hill when you never win the ball to begin with? And yes, getting decent clearances is our problem, and has been our problem since our inception.

To think that Rich couldn't handball out to a running Palmer is also some stupid idea people get in their heads. Rich and Palmer aren't that slow and they both have good hands, they are faster than Hasleby.

Yeah Palmer with his laser delviery is the guy we want getting handball recieves.
Schammer and Mundy are more then adequate around the stoppages and we have the one ruckman in the league that gets a lot of clearances himself. They just need to use the ball better.

 

[Memories]

Yeah Palmer with his laser delviery is the guy we want getting handball recieves.
Schammer and Mundy are more then adequate around the stoppages and we have the one ruckman in the league that gets a lot of clearances himself. They just need to use the ball better.

If you think having 2 midfielders who can win the ball well is enough you might want to just go back and check who the last 3 premiers were and how many quality ball winning midfielders they had. A slight hint, it was a lot more than 2.

 

[Wizard]

If you think having 2 midfielders who can win the ball well is enough you might want to just go back and check who the last 3 premiers were and how many quality ball winning midfielders they had. A slight hint, it was a lot more than 2.

Schammer, Mundy, Palmer, Hasleby, Ibbotson, Suban, Hill, Crowley.

Hmmmm we only have 2 midfielders capable of getting quality ball through the midfield. Don't give me the bull shit about Hill not getting massive numbers, in the game these days he will get decent numbers and because he uses the ball well he will put himself above others by that simple fact.

 

[FIGJAM]

Agree.

Except you mean pick 3 after Naitanui, we didn't win the spoon last year. Jack Watts/Demons.

He might mean:
1: Naita
2: Rich

Yes. Watts 3rd.

I reckoned Rich is a surer bet, but worst case scenario (barring injury or behavioural issues) Naitanui will be a gun, athletic, strong bodied tap winning ruckman with good around the ground skills, best case scenario, he will be a force of nature!

Hill will be good to very good IMO. No need to hit the Tambling / Oakley-Nicholls panic button just yet! Had a bad game Sunday, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Memories]

Schammer, Mundy, Palmer, Hasleby, Ibbotson, Suban, Hill, Crowley.

Wow that list would just make Geelong deliver a package into their pants wouldn't it? Out of that list only Palmer and Hasleby have good statistics to prove they win the ball a lot.

Selwood, Ablet, Bartel, Kelly, Ling, Corey all average over 20 disposals a game, we only have 2 players in our midfield that do that. They have 6.

Schammer, our 3rd best midfielder averages 16 disposals, in comparison someone like Chapman for Geelong who is a forward averages 17 and a lot more goals.

 

[Wizard]

Wow that list would just make Geelong deliver a package into their pants wouldn't it? Out of that list only Palmer and Hasleby have good statistics to prove they win the ball a lot.

Selwood, Ablet, Bartel, Kelly, Ling, Corey all average over 20 disposals a game, we only have 2 players in our midfield that do that. They have 6.

Schammer, our 3rd best midfielder averages 16 disposals, in comparison someone like Chapman for Geelong who is a forward averages 17 and a lot more goals.

You cant even bother comparing statistics over the careers of our players to Geelongs, the only one with the experience of these guys on our midfield list is Hase and possibly Schammer but he hasn't played his entire career as a midfielder.
Here are reason why:
Palmer - 1 season, hardly a fair comparison.
Hill - 2 games, hardly a fair comparison.
Suban - 2 games, hardly a fair comparison.
Ibbo - 1 full season, hardly a fair comparison.
Crowley - granted, doesnt get the ball as much as we would like.
Mundy - played majority of his career on a HBF until this season, possessions not at a premium there.
Hinkley - played less than 10 games.

What you need to realise is that all of our decent midfield options have played less then 25 games bar Hase, Scham and Crowls.
Ablett, Bartel, Kelly, Corey etc were not superstars before they played 25 games.
Dont expect these guys to be in the same level as the Cats because it ain't going to happy. Probably not ever, but bear in mind this Geelong midfield in probably in the top 3 midfields the competition has ever seen.

 

[Memories]

You cant even bother comparing statistics over the careers of our players to Geelongs, the only one with the experience of these guys on our midfield list is Hase and possibly Schammer but he hasn't played his entire career as a midfielder.
Here are reason why:
Palmer - 1 season, hardly a fair comparison.
Hill - 2 games, hardly a fair comparison.
Suban - 2 games, hardly a fair comparison.
Ibbo - 1 full season, hardly a fair comparison.
Crowley - granted, doesnt get the ball as much as we would like.
Mundy - played majority of his career on a HBF until this season, possessions not at a premium there.
Hinkley - played less than 10 games.

What you need to realise is that all of our decent midfield options have played less then 25 games bar Hase, Scham and Crowls.
Ablett, Bartel, Kelly, Corey etc were not superstars before they played 25 games.
Dont expect these guys to be in the same level as the Cats because it ain't going to happy. Probably not ever, but bear in mind this Geelong midfield in probably in the top 3 midfields the competition has ever seen.

You can't say just because we picked duds that it doesn't matter how many games they played. Palmer showed us last year and this year if you are a great player you win the ball. Rich is almost averaging 20 disposals after his first 2 games, they could have been for our team. Robinson is up at 15 already and he is playing up forward.

The fact is we have no ball winners except for 2. Of course we may rub a VB stubby and out comes the magic genie that turns our players into stars but it's unlikely isn't it? You draft in midfielders, we got no decent pure midfielders in the 2008 draft, and this doesn't bother you because apparently Hill will be able to get it from our 2 ball winners and the magic genie will turn the rest of the midfielders into ball winners.

Besides Schammer I have zero hope the others will turn into ball winners, zero. And Schammer is a 50/50 prospect. Even if Schammer turns into one, we still need another 3 to compete with the likes of Geelong. Just to re-iterate, we got ZERO in the 2008 draft.

 

[Bollox]

Of course Hill was a bigger risk than Rich, no one would ever say otherwise

I dont suppose then u know WHY they decided to take a risk rather than take the surefire gun ?

Any justifiable reason for throwing sense out the door and just taking a punt ?

Are freo that successful and happy with their list that they can afford to take risks ?

Schammer and Mundy are more then adequate around the stoppages

Yeah ?...thats probably news to most freo fans as well i imagine.

You sure that rather than being "more than adequate" that they arnt
a large part of the reason why u suck ?

 

[Wizard]

You can't say just because we picked duds that it doesn't matter how many games they played. Palmer showed us last year and this year if you are a great player you win the ball. Rich is almost averaging 20 disposals after his first 2 games, they could have been for our team. Robinson is up at 15 already and he is playing up forward.

The fact is we have no ball winners except for 2. Of course we may rub a VB stubby and out comes the magic genie that turns our players into stars but it's unlikely isn't it? You draft in midfielders, we got no decent pure midfielders in the 2008 draft, and this doesn't bother you because apparently Hill will be able to get it from our 2 ball winners and the magic genie will turn the rest of the midfielders into ball winners.

Besides Schammer I have zero hope the others will turn into ball winners, zero. And Schammer is a 50/50 prospect. Even if Schammer turns into one, we still need another 3 to compete with the likes of Geelong. Just to re-iterate, we got ZERO in the 2008 draft.

Time will tell.
You cant write players off after one season.

Its difficult for Hinkley, Hill and Suban to get huge numbers sitting on the bench and playing bit roles off HB and HF.

 

[Wizard]

I dont suppose then u know WHY they decided to take a risk rather than take the surefire gun ?

Any justifiable reason for throwing sense out the door and just taking a punt ?

Are freo that successful and happy with their list that they can afford to take risks ?

How is he a sure fire gun? Because he has played 2 good games.

His potetial upsuide is knowhere near the upside Hill has to his game purely due to his pace, agility and agression. Rich has none of these 3.

 

[Memories]

Time will tell.
You cant write players off after one season.

Its difficult for Hinkley, Hill and Suban to get huge numbers sitting on the bench and playing bit roles off HB and HF.

Hinkley, Hill and Suban are far from pure midfielders. There is a reason they play bit roles because they don't have the capacity/skills/whatever to play midfield. Any decent midfielder in the last few years always comes on within a year or two of being drafted, and they at least show signs they are highly capable within the first year of AFL. If they don't then they are usually relegated to HBF, WING or average midfielders. To think Ibbotson, Hinkley, Suban are going to turn into these magic ball magnets is so cornucopian you should be working for the spinsters in the economic department.

 

[Underdog]

Yeah Palmer with his laser delviery is the guy we want getting handball recieves.

But apparently his kicking is OK...

Rhys was BOG today, the kid is a superstar. Had another 31 possessions today and barely missed a target, he was brilliant.

Anyone that questions his kicking needa to get a ****ign brain and watch him play some more.

 

[Wizard]

But apparently his kicking is OK...

His kicking is ok. Its not at a standard of Garry Ablett or Ryan Griffen but its alright.
He wouldn't be my first option in our side to be kicking to a leading forward though.

 

[Bollox]

How is he a sure fire gun? Because he has played 2 good games.

His potetial upsuide is knowhere near the upside Hill has to his game purely due to his pace, agility and agression. Rich has none of these 3.

Being blindly defensive and biased can look silly.

In case u missed Daniel Rich in the WAFL he kinda went alright against men. In fact he was going so well he was condiered the LEAST RISKY AND MOST SUREFIRE GUN AVAILABLE IN THE DRAFT...PERIOD.

Your mob decided against it and felt risk was in order.

Some clubs may have had other priorities for their list and may not have needed a midfielder...whereas other clubs really have no excuse not to take best available do they.

Trying to pretend that Rich has no " pace agility or aggression " is even dumber.

 

[Bollox]

Try to imagine Palmer and Rich playing together for two rounds.

Probably wouldnt have made much difference to freo;s results so far...but the media and everyone else would be putting far less pressure on coz u can see an obvious future. Harvey would have less pressure on him too.

Lets hope this isnt another Tambling thing.

 

[Wizard]

Being blindly defensive and biased can look silly.

In case u missed Daniel Rich in the WAFL he kinda went alright against men. In fact he was going so well he was condiered the LEAST RISKY AND MOST SUREFIRE GUN AVAILABLE IN THE DRAFT...PERIOD.

Your mob decided against it and felt risk was in order.

Some clubs may have had other priorities for their list and may not have needed a midfielder...whereas other clubs really have no excuse not to take best available do they.

Trying to pretend that Rich has no " pace agility or aggression " is even dumber.

Does he have the pace, height, athleticism, agression, agility etc that Hill has?
Lets think about this, Hill potentially could be in a similar style of Long, McLeod, Matera etc. Thats a match winning, line breaking long kicking, skillful, goal kicking player.

We are a club that is in desperate need of this as we have never had someone like this in our system. He could turn out a bust or he could turn out to be the most inspired pick imaginable.
Who would know? We wont know for at least another 4-5 years.

Why we are on this why aren't we talking about the balls up by Carlton taking a player that is already in strife off field over Rich. Or why aren't we talking about Port taking Hamish Hartlett a big risk considering he had just come off a shoulde reconstruction and then hurt his shoulder in the first pre-season game. And is now spending large amount of games on the bench for the wost SANFL team in recent history.
Neither of these boys have done as well as Hill has and he seems to be the one copping the flack.

 

[Wizard]

Try to imagine Palmer and Rich playing together for two rounds.

Probably wouldnt have made much difference to freo;s results so far...but the media and everyone else would be putting far less pressure on coz u can see an obvious future. Harvey would have less pressure on him too.

Lets hope this isnt another Tambling thing.

Who says Rich gets a kick in our midfield.
He wouldn't have players of the class of Power, Johnstone, Black, Adcock helping him get free and giving him the ball in our midfield.

 

[Bollox]

Who says Rich gets a kick in our midfield.
He wouldn't have players of the class of Power, Johnstone, Black, Adcock helping him get free and giving him the ball in our midfield.

My grandma would have half a chance right now in your midfield...she'd proably flatten half your guys on the way to the ball too.

 

[Wizard]

My grandma would have half a chance right now in your midfield...she'd proably flatten half your guys on the way to the ball too.

He'd get a game no doubt, but whose to say he would get the ball?

 

[Memories]

He'd get a game no doubt, but whose to say he would get the ball?

Good argument, the only reason Ablet does well is because he has 5 A grade midfielders next to him..... right....