Swans' academy.

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I have no problem with acadamies but the benefiting team must use a pick commensurate with the quality of the player as it works currently for Father Sons.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Stop whinging, it is TWO players, it isn't the end of the world. Swans have put the money and resources into these players in a non football state.

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

Well put mate.
Just wondering are these academies managing to get some of the better athletes from rugby league up there or is pretty much just developing the kids already playing footy.

Yep trying to get kids trying it. There is no discrimination. From the age of 11 the academy encourages all interested kids to come and give it a go. They specifically say no aussie rules experience is required. Around the 15 age group is when they start playing in development squads.
Heeney himself has said he would likely have given the game up without the academy, having played in Newcastle I believe him.

 

[grimlock]

I have no problem with acadamies but the benefiting team must use a pick commensurate with the quality of the player as it works currently for Father Sons.

That is currently how the Academy bidding system currently works. i.e. it's exactly the same as F/S.

 

[PeteSummer]

I have no problem with acadamies but the benefiting team must use a pick commensurate with the quality of the player as it works currently for Father Sons.

The issue is Sydney get to double dip with Academy Picks and Father Sons.

 

[The_Reaper]

I have no problem with acadamies but the benefiting team must use a pick commensurate with the quality of the player as it works currently for Father Sons.

Should happen with each team having a zone.

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

The AFL recently went to America to base equalisation measures from the NFL to the AFL.

There are numerous cities in America where NFL isn't existent, there are baseball, basketball & Hockey towns. Does the NFL setup academies that bypass the draft to help NFL franchises in non football states?

Please explain to me what sport does the NFL compete with in the states. It is the grand poo-bah of sports. There are no Baseball towns, there are football towns.

 

[eastfreo75]

Maybe all the AFL Clubs have academies.

Freo - mid west WA (above Geraldton and below the Kimberly)
Eagles-the Kimberly
Port - Alice Springs/remote communties
Crows - Darwin
Tigers - Townsville
Dogs - Cairns
Essendon- Sunshine Coast
Brisbane - Brisbane
Gold Coast -Gold Coast
Collingwood - Central Coast
GWS - Western Sydney
Cats - Canberra
Swans - North Sydney
Carlton - South Sydney
Saints - new zealand
Hawks - northern tassie
Roos - Southern tassie

Each team must bid for their own players and have extra two rookie spots academy players.

 

[master bate]

This might not be the Swans academy but I hope it can provide a perspective from the players side.

I'm 15 and in the GC Suns academy, when I moved from Perth to Townsville, the chances of playing football at a professional level (which is and still is my dream) became extremely slim. After my first season of footy up there, I was invited to trial for the Suns academy, I made it and have been in it for just short of the last 2 years.

On the very first day of academy training, the group as a collective were told that the aim of the academy was 'to produce good local club players' clubs being that of the Townsville area, there are 5. Over the course of my time in the academy, I've learnt things that I wouldn't have if the academy hadn't been around, things such as the switch and the short 45, I've been given the chance to do the drills that the Suns actually do (so we're told) and the opportunity to meet some pretty important people, for regional qld, such as Jason Torney and Craig Starcevich. Last week, all the kids aged top age u/16s from rocky to cairns were given the opportunity to play at the curtain raiser before the Suns-Dogs game, unfortunately I was injured and couldn't play, but the fact that 40ish kids got to play in front of a couple thousand people is something that wouldn't haven't been though possible for kids in North Qld 5 years ago, and is something very special to remember. The Suns academy offers a pathway for kids, who, without the academy, mightn't have any chance to play footy in the big time at all, and yet will allow the quality of footy to improve in their area.

Onto the success of kids in the academy. In townsville we've had one kid make it all the way through the Suns, that's Josh Hall, who was picked up very, very late, 17-18ish. We've had 2 kids just finish playing for Qld at the u/18 championships, one was picked up at (I believe 17) and the other at 14-15. I would say this is out of around 12-14 kids. Another 2 kids are playing colts in the QAFL at the moment. The rest, to my knowledge, are playing A grade footy in Townsville, and ones in Darwin somewhere. Currently in Townsville, we have 21 kids from under 13-17, two kids have left. Of these 21, 1 has played qld u/16, out of 13 eligible, though we should've had at least 1 more. In regards to making it to a list, realistically, and if we are lucky (quite lucky) we might have 2 kids that could do it.

I believe that talent academies like the Suns and Swans offer a pathway and a chance to kids, plus allow for them to be slightly more knowledgable in the way is going to be played, of course the competition is no wear near it is down south and the kids would no doubt have to raise it up a couple of notches. A sidenote, a traveling u-17 goldfields team, which is from Ballarat I presume, defeated a combined Townsville/Mackay under 17 team by 8 points 95-87, this is an improvement of about 7 goals from last year, mind you of the 21 kids, about half of them were undr 16, and one was under 15, one kid was in the Suns. Of course this is only one small part of a big football state, and there are some of the best naturally talented kids in that T/M side that the regions produced in a while in that side.

There is every chance that the Suns or Swans may get lucky and find and absolute gem in the ranks, but i think that the chance for regionally placed kids, like myself, to be given a chance and become at least a good local club player, is the real success and worth of the academies.

Not sure if those last words are the best to go out on, but I think you get my point.

I have 4 questions:

1. If you were still in Perth would you be in the WAFL juniors system getting some form of advanced coaching?
2. What percentage of you or your friends watch footy on TV? Do any get Foxtel and watch fox footy?
3. If the academy was called the QAFL academy or such other name and didn't have the formal link to the Suns would that influence participation ie. would anyone drop out?
4. Is it a big privilege to be in the academy and do the long time Queensland kids see it as such with a goal to make AFL or are they just happy to be playing footy and in the academy for the sake of it?

The reason I ask the last question is because I agree with you that the academies are obviously a huge boost to local leagues up there to get however many kids per year trained in a semi-pro setting. You can all go back to local club comps and be the best players and future coaches and then coach kids etc and the game grows at grass level. But from a purely AFL player development it seems it would almost be more cost efficient to just take the 2 or 4 kids you really rate and send them to boarding school in Melbourne and to play in the TAC cup.

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

I would love for Victorian zoning to come back in it would be the biggest shitfight between Eddie and the other Vic Presidents over the zoning rights.

 

[master bate]

Maybe all the AFL Clubs have academies.

Freo - mid west WA (above Geraldton and below the Kimberly)
Eagles-the Kimberly
Port - Alice Springs/remote communties
Crows - Darwin
Tigers - Townsville
Dogs - Cairns
Essendon- Sunshine Coast
Brisbane - Brisbane
Gold Coast -Gold Coast
Collingwood - Central Coast
GWS - Western Sydney
Cats - Canberra
Swans - North Sydney
Carlton - South Sydney
Saints - new zealand
Hawks - northern tassie
Roos - Southern tassie

Each team must bid for their own players and have extra two rookie spots academy players.

A nice thought. But it would break down for the reason VFL zones did. There's no way to make them all equitable. I'll take half of Tassie in which a player often gets drafted pretty high every year compared to Townsville where Jake Spencer is the best player to come from there! That you left Melbourne off entire doesn't really make it too great either!

 

[doppleganger]

'Academies' are simply a return to zones of the 70s....pump resources into a good zone = premierships.

This is why team based academies are a bad idea.

Why can't there be generic AFL academies set up?

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

But from a purely AFL player development it seems it would almost be more cost efficient to just take the 2 or 4 kids you really rate and send them to boarding school in Melbourne and to play in the TAC cup.

Sending 15/16 year old kids 2000 KM away from their families and friends for the slight chance they will be an AFL player. I am sorry but this is the most idiotic suggestion I have heard yet.

 

[eastfreo75]

A nice thought. But it would break down for the reason VFL zones did. There's no way to make them all equitable. I'll take half of Tassie in which a player often gets drafted pretty high every year compared to Townsville where Jake Spencer is the best player to come from there! That you left Melbourne off entire doesn't really make it too great either!

Sorry for leaving out Melbourne, its just a concept. Sure, more work would need to done to make it more balanced. I also, left out south nsw country.

Their is a need for the academies especially in the northern states, but having four teams with advantage is not good.

 

[PeteSummer]

Please explain to me what sport does the NFL compete with in the states. It is the grand poo-bah of sports. There are no Baseball towns, there are football towns.

Boston Red Sox are by far the dominant sporting team in Boston. The Patriots aren't even close to them in this area.

 

[melbournehammer]

Why is it that Swans fans brand everyone as "conspiracy theorists" when they speak out against Sydney's competitive advantages? You act like I'm inventing theories as to why 9-11 was inside job by the US government, when all I'm doing is pointing out the favouritism that the Sydney Swans receive from a money-driven AFL.

These aren't wild, fanciful, pie-in-the-sky conspiracy theories, but simple observations over the years.

Everyone knows the AFL virtually barrack for the bloody Swans and don't want them missing the finals. The AFL's #1 agenda is to grow the game in Queensland and NSW and make AFL footy the dominant code in this country. That's why we have a financial drain of franchise in West Sydney instead of a Tassie team.

Obviously the best way Aussie domination can be achieved is to win over as many converts as possible in the nation's biggest city. That isn't going to happen if the Swans are left to their own devices and languish in the bottom half of the ladder for any length of time (like everyone else gets to do in this equalised competition).

If the academy isn't going to be an advantage for Sydney, then why are the Swans officials so touchy about all of this? Why the angst towards Eddie McGuire? Do you really expect us to believe their sole motive is a benevolent, philanthropical desire to grow the game? Is that why they sent Roosy over to America to scout for some 210cm African American ruck prospects? Is that why they continually resisted the AFL's attempt to put another team in West Sydney and gave 101 reasons why they should continue to have NSW all to themselves?

When Sydney people complain that all clubs signed off the CoLA and the academy, they need to realise that clubs are either brow-beaten into doing so by the AFL or sweet-talked into doing so because of the perceived money everyone will make with Sydney always playing in September. The AFL is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship. They have virtually half the clubs in their pocket - clubs who'll go along with anything they say or do, if it means they'll get their welfare payments or a favourable fixture. This doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean us fans have to cop it in silence.

I suggest you read your post again and mine when sober/sane/open minded.

Once you have dismounted the high horse look again at what I have written - that your best argument is that the academies may, occasionally, lead to the swans recruiting a player through the draft with a higher pick than what they may have otherwise got the player.

On the other hand this idea that we sneaky squirrel away players to get them at 78 or so is just laughable. These star players will be so damn good that no-one will ever have heard of them. Seriously ask yourself where the conspiracy theory tin foil hat bit exists here.

I have said elsewhere i think it is an advantage for us - grossly overstated and playing into the COLA/Buddy imbroglio but an advantage nonetheless .

On the other hand you don't put a great argument together - either we are the AFL's love child and they do everything we tell them including not installing a second team in sydney (a team which we are pretty confident will be on the teat for a long time - as we were/are and who we fear may cannibalise the existing afl base rather than grow it - something that only time will reveal), or we aren't their love child and their interests remain what they have always been - to maximise the revenue for the league regardless of the interests of any individual club.

Finally the reason the swans are touchy about it is simple - eddie represents the same narrow bigoted view of the afl represented by allan mcallister - what is against collingwood's interests is against the interests of the afl, what is in collingwood's interests is in the interests of the afl. Maybe we have a broader view. Maybe we are kidding ourselves.

But I know this much - Hawthorn can be whatever it wants, and its players are amongst the most impressive in the league and their coach is one of the most innovative wondrous things the afl has seen - but until their bigfooty fans get the log out of their eye they will struggle to see the game and the competition as it actually is.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Their is a need for the academies especially in the northern states, but having four teams with advantage is not good.

So scrap the father son then. Again, it isn't as if the Swans (or GWS, Brisbane, GC) are paying basement value. They are still paying a first rounder....Melbourne got Jack Viney a consensus top 5-6 pick at what number again? Essendon (my club) got Daniher at pick 10 when he was a top 2 pick. Geelong have a number of them, Kangaroos got a consensus top 3 pick at 8....They are all equally 'unfair'. Guess what it evens itself out, life isn't fair.

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

Boston Red Sox are by far the dominant sporting team in Boston. The Patriots aren't even close to them in this area.

My wife is from the States I have lived there, and the Patriots are my team. I can tell you for a fact that Patriots rule that town, numerous polls show that Bostonians agree with me.

http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/whos-new-englands-favorite-team

Not to mention that American Football was supposedly born in Boston.

 

[master bate]

Please explain to me what sport does the NFL compete with in the states. It is the grand poo-bah of sports. There are no Baseball towns, there are football towns.

College football. Whilst the NFL dominates most of America there are no teams in many of the Southern states. College football is the either the big game or the only winter/football code game in many big cities in Oregan, Utah, Oklahoma, large parts of Texas, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan etc. Then there's the Los Angeles farce. Second biggest city and no NFL team.

The NFL don't go hunting for markets when they have such an established one. 3 games in London and a Pro Bowl in Hawaii and that's it. Training camps in some rural areas but no preseason games in strange venues. All games in time slots to deliberate avoid clashing with college and high school football.

I understand the logic behind the theory that if you aren't growing then you are shrinking and that establishing a really strong foothold in Sydney and Queensland would strengthen the game if it is achievable. But at the same time complete domination of Victoria, SA, WA, Tassie and 1 team in each of NSW and QLD was enough to see a pretty decent TV deal and strong game. If the AFL has to crack Sydney it's mainly to ward off soccer not for any threat by the rugby codes and most evidence to me points towards the A league and AFL working pretty well together not so much in competition.

 

[The_Reaper]

So scrap the father son then. Again, it isn't as if the Swans (or GWS, Brisbane, GC) are paying basement value. They are still paying a first rounder....Melbourne got Jack Viney a consensus top 5-6 pick at what number again? Essendon (my club) got Daniher at pick 10 when he was a top 2 pick. Geelong have a number of them, Kangaroos got a consensus top 3 pick at 8....They are all equally 'unfair'. Guess what it evens itself out, life isn't fair.

Sydney get access to father sons.

Forgotten Tom Mitchell?

 

[master bate]

Sending 15/16 year old kids 2000 KM away from their families and friends for the slight chance they will be an AFL player. I am sorry but this is the most idiotic suggestion I have heard yet.

Seemed to work pretty well for Cyril Rioli, Steven May, Dom Barry and countless others. Plus they get a good education regardless if they make it.

At the moment as the guy said it's 20 or so kids in Townsville. Presumably they are set up with some expensive equipment and coaching and then get paid trips to the Suns headquarters or other places at times to develop their football. And someone pays for all that and they probably don't get regular quality games against the best available opponents.

Compare that to taking the 3 best kids and moving them to Melbourne and all of a sudden they play TAC where they get all the coaching looked after year round and can play against the best opponents weekly. Sure they have to be away but if they have the dedication to play then they'll gladly move at 16 for a chance to play. I bet the kid above would do it without a second thought. Beats going to a foreign European country to play soccer.

I'm just trying to get an idea what 'we' as supporters of the AFL are paying for in the GC and GWS academies which are on the AFL drip feed and seem to be supporting local footy as much as training AFL players.

 

[fishardansin]

You don't see a difference between academies in football heartland to academies in non-football states? It's an entirely different situation.

A way around that is dividing up Aboriginal communities so that talented youngsters can get fitness training and proper nutrition through their whole childhood. Two or three trips to the club that is running their community will help with them coping with life in the big smoke if they were ever drafted. Though that is a bit of a myth because everyone remembers the big blow ups like Jurrah but the other Warlpiri boy Liam Patrick did just fine, despite never really making it. He's back in the NT playing for NT Thunder.

The investment put into these kids will have long term positive effects on the communities. As the habits and life styles will catch on for enough to change health outcomes for many. It would also be great way to turn football talent into careers other than making it in the big league.

I'd also add a mature age academy for AFL clubs. That way kids who get passed over by everyone in all drafts can be developed in their affiliated VFL team. It will add to the talent pool as clubs will be less shy spending their dollar on developing kids and young men they'll have first dibs to.

If a kid has been passed over then having him in an academy isn't compromising the draft. It's building up the talent pool. Similarly putting time and effort into remote aboriginal communities and the Rugby League heartland won't compromise the draft as it's building the talent pool.

Also any large commercial entity should be investing back into the community and working in remote communities is a worthwhile venture.

The long term view of the NSW/Qld acadamies is that enough kids will get hooked. Not only will they love the team they were in the academy for they'll play local footy if they don't make it. If enough of that happens then a threshold will finally be reached where everyone who might be interested will get a chance.

 

[MilhouseVsEvil]

College football. Whilst the NFL dominates most of America there are no teams in many of the Southern states. College football is the either the big game or the only winter/football code game in many big cities in Oregan, Utah, Oklahoma, large parts of Texas, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan etc. Then there's the Los Angeles farce. Second biggest city and no NFL team.

The NFL don't go hunting for markets when they have such an established one. 3 games in London and a Pro Bowl in Hawaii and that's it. Training camps in some rural areas but no preseason games in strange venues. All games in time slots to deliberate avoid clashing with college and high school football.

I don't understand are you helping prove my point? College Football is the breeding ground for the NFL, they aren't competing against each other, the reason most college games are a Saturday. The NFL is the powerhouse league of the states and it is daylight second.

 

[Noobrifle]

AFL Academies in non-traditional football states is a great idea. But they should be operated and funded by the AFL or independent body in the state.

The overall value of being able to draft academy players can be argued back and forth, but you cannot argue that it isn't at least some form of draft advantage.

I'm also morally opposed to the Father-Son system, simply for the fact that it currently gives some clubs an advantage over others at the draft. Particularly where young clubs in GWS and Gold Coast won't have access to a Father-Son player in some time.

Perhaps this is where GWS and Gold Coast should get access to academy players, in the same vein as Father-Son picks, until they have been in the competition long enough to have access to players under the Father-Son system.

 

[eastfreo75]

So scrap the father son then. Again, it isn't as if the Swans (or GWS, Brisbane, GC) are paying basement value. They are still paying a first rounder....Melbourne got Jack Viney a consensus top 5-6 pick at what number again? Essendon (my club) got Daniher at pick 10 when he was a top 2 pick. Geelong have a number of them, Kangaroos got a consensus top 3 pick at 8....They are all equally 'unfair'. Guess what it evens itself out, life isn't fair.

Swans and Lions one day could get three first round picks and only giving up 1/2/3 round draft picks.

GWS and Gold Coast can't get father/son picks for a least 15 years.

My club Freo will 20 years next year and we only able to pick up Brett Peake and Chem Michael in 20 years. Very unfair.

Also, you will find that most flags in the last 25 odd years has father/sons in them.