Preview Sydney vs GWS - Who are the 5 most hated players in the AFL?

[BloodySwan]

I'm tipping Heeney to regain form this week. We've had a few other forwards come back into form recently. Now his turn. 4 and 3 goals in his last two matches on them (Parker kicked 5 in the latter, but probably not getting replicated). They had no answer in the Elim Final when he turned it on.

Post bye round Heeney has been our in form forward. He sets just such a high standard but he's scored more than any other over the last 6 round

 

[SwansProudly]

Post bye round Heeney has been our in form forward. He sets just such a high standard but he's scored more than any other over the last 6 round

source:sydneyswans twitter

 

[Bloods86]

Post bye round Heeney has been our in form forward. He sets just such a high standard but he's scored more than any other over the last 6 round

Yeah, I know he's kicked some goals, but more a game where he takes control and we rave about it.

 

[Nuggetz]

Actually hoping that Cunningham is our medi-sub tomorrow. I know much of the talk has been about JPK, and I agree that he's very suited to the medi-sub role, but I'd argue Cunningham's case is even stronger.

We have a lot of those small/medium defenders who can also play in other positions (Florent midfield, Lloyd wing, Fox the ultimate utility). Cunningham would be just another option we could use because of his versatility (small defender/wing/forward). Freedom to move magnets around should someone go down. Not to mention there aren't the lingering questions over how he can perform over 4 quarters at the highest level like there are over JPK.

Cunningham hasn't played much forward nor wing, imo his versatility isn't established yet. He's also been dropped for a lack of form. Contested/Clearance work is a weakness for us so JPK makes sense as a sub tactically if we're getting smashed in that area.

 

[Bloods86]

Cunningham hasn't played much forward nor wing, imo his versatility isn't established yet. He's also been dropped for a lack of form. Contested/Clearance work is a weakness for us so JPK makes sense as a sub tactically if we're getting smashed in that area.

Huh? He's only played defence the last two seasons, he was literally a wing/forward before that, and that's where he established his spot in the 22. So that's 6.5 years as a utility up the ground after establishing himself, to about 2.5 in defence (I think he started playing there a bit in 2020).

 

[Nuggetz]

Huh? He's only played defence the last two seasons, he was literally a wing/forward before that, and that's where he established his spot in the 22.

that was 2 seasons ago. he's firmly established as a defender now. if you want versatility as a sub then get a person who has regularly played different positions.

 

[caesar88]

Cunningham hasn't played much forward nor wing, imo his versatility isn't established yet. He's also been dropped for a lack of form. Contested/Clearance work is a weakness for us so JPK makes sense as a sub tactically if we're getting smashed in that area.

Cunningham played forward and wing prior to finding his place down back. Not saying he would excel, but they're roles more familiar to him than JPK coming on as sub and playing wing or half back.

My issue with the idea of making JPK medical sub purely with the intent of bringing him on to fix our contested/clearance game is that it sounds impractical. How do we go about doing that? Does Mills need to feign a sprayed ankle? Do we need Rowbottom to stub a toe? Warner to accidentally fall and need a concussion spell? We would be essentially hamstringing ourselves and costing ourselves the benefits of having a versatile sub all because we used our sub on one specific player needed for one specific purpose.

 

[Nuggetz]

Cunningham played forward and wing prior to finding his place down back. Not saying he would excel, but they're roles more familiar to him than JPK coming on as sub and playing wing or half back.

My issue with the idea of making JPK medical sub purely with the intent of bringing him on to fix our contested/clearance game is that it sounds impractical. How do we go about doing that? Does Mills need to feign a sprayed ankle? Do we need Rowbottom to stub a toe? Warner to accidentally fall and need a concussion spell? We would be essentially hamstringing ourselves and the benefits of having a versatile sub all because we used our sub on one specific player needed for one specific purpose.

I don't think we'll play jpk as hb. If ryan clarke is in the team why not sub him out? or a Florent etc whoever isn't making an impact. If we lose it's going to be because of our contested game being a weakness. You can easily move someone like Mills to halfback or even send warner to the forward line. Our sub should either be playing a specialty role or covering any weakness.

 

[Bloods86]

I don't think we'll play jpk as hb. If ryan clarke is in the team why not sub him out? or a Florent etc whoever isn't making an impact. If we lose it's going to be because of our contested game being a weakness. You can easily move someone like Mills to halfback or even send warner to the forward line. Our sub should either be playing a specialty role or covering any weakness.

Firstly, we never play games with the sub. So there's that. We just will not sub someone out unless they need it.

Secondly, there is every indication in the world that we'd play JPK at half-back again, even keeping Mills in midfield to do it, not sure what you've watched this year. Horse himself said JPK can be used in a variety of roles last week. It's not true (at least successfully), but he said it.

 

[Nuggetz]

Firstly, we never play games with the sub. So there's that. We just will not sub someone out unless they need it.

Secondly, there is every indication in the world that we'd play JPK at half-back again, even keeping Mills in midfield to do it, not sure what you've watched this year. Horse himself said JPK can be used in a variety of roles last week. It's not true (at least successfully), but he said it.

We'll play games if its the difference between winning or losing a final. Just like every single team in the comp. I've watched every game this year, i've seen JPK play at halfback with limited success, just like i've seen Cunningham play in defence with his form wavering.

Ofcourse Horse will say he can be used in a variety of positions, he's not going to come out and say "oh Josh is only going to play inside mid and that's it". Only an idiot would say that.

 

[caesar88]

I don't think we'll play jpk as hb. If ryan clarke is in the team why not sub him out? or a Florent etc whoever isn't making an impact. If we lose it's going to be because of our contested game being a weakness. You can easily move someone like Mills to halfback or even send warner to the forward line. Our sub should either be playing a specialty role or covering any weakness.

With all due respect, I just find this take to be an odd one. To me the medi-sub should be whoever can slot in and cause the least disruption to the team's structure and harmony. We shouldn't be actively preparing to be deficient in a particular area and then choosing our medi-sub around that. I highly doubt Horse shares this kind of outlook, or he wouldn't pick the players that you seem to think may lead to us losing.

 

[Bloods86]

We'll play games if its the difference between winning or losing a final. Just like every single team in the comp. I've watched every game this year, i've seen JPK play at halfback with limited success, just like i've seen Cunningham play in defence with his form wavering.

Ofcourse Horse will say he can be used in a variety of positions, he's not going to come out and say "oh Josh is only going to play inside mid and that's it". Only an idiot would say that.

He could have said that we'll find a spot for him if the need arises. Not go on about various roles he could play unprompted. That and it's exactly what we've done with him already this year.

 

[Nuggetz]

With all due respect, I just find this take to be an odd one. To me the medi-sub should be whoever can slot in and cause the least disruption to the team's structure and harmony. We shouldn't be actively preparing to be deficient in a particular area and then choosing our medi-sub around that. I highly doubt Horse shares this kind of outlook, or he wouldn't pick the players that you seem to think may lead to us losing.

Unless you get an injury for a like for like replacement, the medi-sub will cause disruptions to teams structure. We're not actively preparing to be deficient but it's a reality that our contested footy and clearance work isn't great. We've picked JPK as a medi sub already. It's something Horse has done. So yea, Horse clearly thinks its justifiable. Just like he's picked Cunningham but at the end of the day you rate Cunningham as a better medi-sub than JPK and that's fine.

 

[Nuggetz]

He could have said that we'll find a spot for him if the need arises. Not go on about various roles he could play unprompted. That and it's exactly what we've done with him already this year.

Of course he'll say that, he'll never say JPK is only an inside mid. He'll give reasons for other roles he could play. He's a club legend, he'll speak about him positively including any potential versatility. He would be an idiot to say otherwise.

 

[Bloods86]

Of course he'll say that, he'll never say JPK is only an inside mid. He'll give reasons for other roles he could play. He's a club legend, he'll speak about him positively including any potential versatility. He would be an idiot to say otherwise.

But he did it unprompted. Anyway, whatever.

When Warner missed in Rd1 - JPK played at half back.

When Rowbottom missed in Rd10 - JPK attended some centre bounces but spent most of his time on the wing / at half back before getting injured.

So even when we had a main mid missing, and JPK was playing, we sent him elsewhere.

You don't have to like it (I don't either), it's just reality.

Edit: Even after the Hawks cameo, JPK was put into more centre bounces against the Lions, and then was barely seen again in the midfield, so obviously not a favoured solution.

 

[Ticky009]

worried about this game. They'll try to use their physicality to intimidate and beat us, it's a massive danger game imo

GWS have won 5 of their last 6 games at the SCG. Urgh. Need to even up the score lads!!

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

GWS have won 5 of their last 6 games at the SCG. Urgh. Need to even up the score lads!!

Ticky correct me if im wrong but we have not beaten them when Toby plays?

 

[Ticky009]

Ticky correct me if im wrong but we have not beaten them when Toby plays?

The only wins I can recall are when Toby hasn't played.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

The only wins I can recall are when Toby hasn't played.

Yep same

 

[wills2g]

Beat Freo at Optus until this year, we'll beat GWS with Toby and Port will beat the Pies. 4th place by 4:30pm tomorrow lets go

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Noting there are lots of valid opinions on this, I would choose Kennedy over Cunningham as sub.

I’d take a proactive perspective and aim to choose the sub that would have the biggest positive impact rather than one that would fill the holes the most. I reckon fresh Kennedy in the middle has a big impact there, and then one of Parker, Warner or Mills to forward, wing/half forward or defence respectively then has positive impacts in those areas as well.

I think Cunningham can fill a hole without much impact particularly good or bad - but he is not going to help turn a game like Kennedy did against Hawthorne.

 

[RubbaDuck]

I love Kennedy and think he still has value in the midfield, but needs the circumstances to change for that to happen (one of 4 players to be removed from midfield - Parker, Mills, Rowy or Warner). But I lost interest once I read that Hewett wasn't so much a loss and is surplus to requirements. I've litigated that in the past, not going to bother again, we'll just have to disagree.

I wasn't using the term 'surplus to requirements' in a derogatory fashion. Hell no, I was always a big fan of George. After all his back issues it's great to see him playing a big role in Carlton's resurgence. His role or the roles he might play at the Swans can, IMHO, be better performed by another of our players or mix of our players. The reason for letting George go might be because the coaches have identified a favourable talent or a player who more favourably suits the current and future needs of the team.

Factors determining the best balance might be age, experience, durability, ability to learn, potential for growth, future retirements, key person vulnerabilities, versatility (utility), potential for transfer of skills, leadership, physical characteriscs, player record, injury record, star factor (for drawing fans to games) and of course, salary expectations. The existing player group is just one constraint among many. The expected years our premiership window is open is another factor, as are the players coming out of contract both from our club and others.

Imagine Horse looking to put together his midfield group during the preseason. Factors to take into account might be their age, experience, leadership, physical characteriscs, player record, injury record and, of course, salary expectations.

George's salary demands seems to have been a key stumbling block. Swans voted him 2nd in B&F in 2019 so he was obviously valued. I think the Swans might have matched a lower offer for George but they may have held reservations after his 2020 Annus horribilis when he missed all but 6 games in 2020 due to a back injury, which has flared up a bit this year. They may have suspected he could relapse.

Comparing their profiles against the likely selection criteria, I would hope all fans would agree that Parker, Mills and Warner are automatic selections in the midfield.

So the key question remaining is how Hewett stacks up against Kennedy and Rowbum. If Hewett is not better value than either of those players, then he's obviously surplus to requirements. If Hewett is only better than one of them, he'd probably be medi-sub for this game, but given our cap squeeze last year thats paying a lot of cash for a medi-sub or a midfielder we plan use infrequently. In that case, he'd still be surplus to requirements.

If Hewett is a better player than both Kennedy and Rowbottom (in his ability to perform a midfield role) we still need to ask if Hewett is better value than these two, taking into account all factors. Rowbottom is a tackling machine, ahead of George at the same age.

Personally I believe both Rowbottom and Kennedy are better value in our midfield. IMO Kennedy still plays the role better. But even if you disagree we should look at the other factors. Kennedys built of steel, even if he's past his prime, that prime was higher than less than a handful of his contemporaries. He's not likely to want as much coin and he leads by example. He makes others stand taller. Talking of others, we have several more who can go through the midfield plus a few in the reserves. Heeney, Florent and Paps are ripe to go and perhaps midfield time for Stephens is just around the corner.

So when I say surplus to requirements. I'm saying that Hewett in our team, with his salary and injury history, wouldn't give us a net positive. The gains he gives to Carlton is value for money but his role at the Swans can be more than adequately filled by the existing player list and we can save cap space to boot.

 

[GoodesStuff]

A top 4 team playing a bottom 4 team, should be far too good.

Swans by 42

 

[GotTheGoodes]

GWS @ $4 is outrageous.

This game will be decided in single figures.

4.50 this morning. But yes ridiculous. Just for the fact their win loss against us and their ability to play a brand against us that suggests they are playing for a premiership. Make no mistake at some stage tomorrow we will trail them. It’s weather we can head them is the question.

I'm on the opposite side here. I reckon we're going to belt them by 37 points...

Legitimately think we'll exact some revenge today. Unlike years gone by we've got Blakey firing, Mills & Paps into the middle, Clarke blanketing guys then working off them, Florent has found his spot, the Chad... speed, aggression, some poise... I think we win & we win well.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Gameday thread up & rolling HERE too.

Get stuck in!