Opinion Tanking. The elephant that isn't going away

[rapidfire7]

Despite their vastly improved form in recent weeks, surely, no reasonable person would believe that The Eagles have a chance in hell of beating Freo this Saturday night.

Unless North somehow win beforehand (something which they haven't achieved in four months or so), a win would all but certainty cost the Eagles the number 1 pick in the draft and one of the most highly touted prospects in AFL history.

So, it begs the question, what is the incentive for the Eagles to win this game of football? In reality, there is none.. and because there is none, we can be all but assured, that unless disaster occurs, they won't.. even if they could.

I don't blame West Coast at all for any of this mess.. I blame the system. The system, which in instances like this greatly rewards losing and punishes winning.

Whether we want to call it tanking or something else, we need to stop pretending that these sorts of issues don't exist.

This really is a blight on the game and goes against the very essence of what sport should be about. Playing to win.

I believe we urgently need some sort of draft lottery system to be implemented and soon.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Tanking is good for footy.
There's nothing better than seeing a tanking side take on a side just above them and wondering how crap the second side is and if they can actually beat the tank

 

[ferrisb]

Tanking is good for footy.
There's nothing better than seeing a tanking side take on a side just above them and wondering how crap the second side is and if they can actually beat the tank

You must have loved the Kreuzer Cup...

 

[Mitchell Madness]

You must have loved the Kreuzer Cup...

I actually did.
It was comedy gold.
Sure, not a great spectacle, but still fun to watch

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Talent and form wise North Melbourne should beat Essendon this week (especially for club champion Ben Cunnington

10

Ben Cunnington

Age

32

Ht

185cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

9.0

3star

HB

12.4

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

5.6

5star

D

17.7

4star

K

6.0

2star

HB

11.7

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

15.8

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

3.0

5star

's final game)

Would be very suspicious if they lose, esp AFL.com reported today that Brady Rawlings

Brady Rawlings

Age

42

Ht

184cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

8.7

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.8

3star

NMFC list manager has met with the AFL this week for informal meetings about draft 'assistance' ...

 

[kreuze_missile]

Bottom 4 draft lottery.

/thread

 

[DanWCE]

It's Norths fault. If they would just win a game or two instead of lurking in the depths of the ladder trying to maximize the McKay compo then we could do the right thing and beat the Purples.

 

[kreuze_missile]

You must have loved the Kreuzer Cup...

The only thing I can remember from that game was Brock McLean not getting the memo.

He was dominating so we moved him to full forward and barely scored again.

 

[CharacterFirst]

You must have loved the Kreuzer Cup...

He's a Hawk.

He loves all things tanking.

 

[rapidfire7]

Bottom 4 draft lottery.

/thread

Is it quite that simple? Wouldn't the 5th last team be trying to finish 4th last to get into the lottery and have a chance of getting pick 1?

 

[Coach_Required]

Tanking these days isnt like it was 10 years ago. Teams would tank to get a priority pick, these days it's to get only 1 pick higher.

A bit meh really.

 

[bzparkes]

WCE have been labeled the worst team in the history of the AFL all year, yet now there's claims WCE are actually tanking.

I wish they were so good they could choose when they want to win and when they want to lose.

The result on the weekend was an indictment on the Essendon players. It should never have been close after they got 30 points up but they just went to sleep.

Tanking would be swapping the forwards with the backs and parking Kelly/Yeo/B.Williams on the bench for half the final quarter and sending Noah Long in to ruck.

 

[The 747]

It's Norths fault. If they would just win a game or two instead of lurking in the depths of the ladder trying to maximize the McKay compo then we could do the right thing and beat the Purples.

To be fair North have forgotten how to win. Should have won a few more this year and the Eagles - for reasons - have clearly been the worst side this year.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

He's a Hawk.

He loves all things tanking.

Well aren't you clever?

 

[ferrisb]

You must have loved the Kreuzer Cup...

I actually did.
It was comedy gold.
Sure, not a great spectacle, but still fun to watch

Like if Benny Hill had an episode where they all played AFL.

But without the naked ladies.

 

[Purple Suit]

Despite their vastly improved form in recent weeks, surely, no reasonable person would believe that The Eagles have a chance in hell of beating Freo this Saturday night.

Unless North somehow win beforehand (something which they haven't achieved in four months or so), a win would all but certainty cost the Eagles the number 1 pick in the draft and one of the most highly touted prospects in AFL history.

So, it begs the question, what is the incentive for the Eagles to win this game of football? In reality, there is none.. and because there is none, we can be all but assured, that unless disaster occurs, they won't.. even if they could.

I don't blame West Coast at all for any of this mess.. I blame the system. The system, which in instances like this greatly rewards losing and punishes winning.

Whether we want to call it tanking or something else, we need to stop pretending that these sorts of issues don't exist.

This really is a blight on the game and goes against the very essence of what sport should be about. Playing to win.

I believe we urgently need some sort of draft lottery system to be implemented and soon.

The players have incentive, they have home town bragging rights & a fair few are fighting for new contracts. No player wants to get the spoon, but the reality is there is a huge gap between Freo & WC in terms of ability so it's hardly tanking.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Bottom 4 draft lottery.

/thread

And if you're sitting in 5th last with a few games to go, tanking becomes the best option to have a shot at the #1 pick.

It's not /thread, this can just lead to more problems.

 

[The 747]

And if you're sitting in 5th last with a few games to go, tanking becomes the best option to have a shot at the #1 pick.

It's not /thread, this can just lead to more problems.

But clubs that have no chance of making the finals already have no incentive to win. It just makes a different bracket of the ladder have to make some decisions and if you are fifth last it is a more interesting decision.

/end thread

 

[Toffee Lion]

But clubs that have no chance of making the finals already have no incentive to win. It just makes a different bracket of the ladder have to make some decisions and if you are fifth last it is a more interesting decision.

/end thread

Just go back to zoning.

/mega end thread

 

[Dangerousfield]

You must have loved the Kreuzer Cup...

Was very funny to watch.

Melbourne were the best tankers of course, forwards and backs swapping positions, ruckman at FB, winger in the ruck, stopping rotations half way through the last quarter - gold! But Vlad said they didn't tank so it must have been something else.

North were interesting to watch against WC, played two quarters just jogging around with minimal pressure. It did the job, they lost, so they can continue their draft begging act which wouldn't be anywhere near as convincing if they'd beaten WC.

Best way to stop tanking is to not reward it - take note AFL, it's the same as rewarding a screaming child

 

[Coach_Required]

Eagles fans have a right to be a bit annoyed IMO, they did only win 2 games last year. It is possible that they have just been s**t.

Teams don't come from 5 goals down to try and win and then lose in the last minute if they are tanking. They would have just given up and avoided the obvious. Coaches would have made positional changes to stop a win happening. People forget Collingwood finished 17th in 2021 and pulled the pin on their season early yet no talk of them tanking. Not even 2 seasons later, they are 2 games clear on top.

 

[D-N-R]

If a draft lottery comes in it will only take an undeserving team snagging pick 1 before everyone has a sook and says that the system is broken and it gets changed. It's the sort of knee jerk reaction the AFL excels at.

 

[Golumless]

Despite their vastly improved form in recent weeks, surely, no reasonable person would believe that The Eagles have a chance in hell of beating Freo this Saturday night.

Unless North somehow win beforehand (something which they haven't achieved in four months or so), a win would all but certainty cost the Eagles the number 1 pick in the draft and one of the most highly touted prospects in AFL history.

So, it begs the question, what is the incentive for the Eagles to win this game of football? In reality, there is none.. and because there is none, we can be all but assured, that unless disaster occurs, they won't.. even if they could.

I don't blame West Coast at all for any of this mess.. I blame the system. The system, which in instances like this greatly rewards losing and punishes winning.

Whether we want to call it tanking or something else, we need to stop pretending that these sorts of issues don't exist.

This really is a blight on the game and goes against the very essence of what sport should be about. Playing to win.

I believe we urgently need some sort of draft lottery system to be implemented and soon.

Eh, even with a draft lottery, you're going to get tanking.

Mind you, the football world completely misunderstands tanking. For instance, the Eagles will go hard to win that game. After all, there are jobs on the line, and the club effectively kills any trust in its playing core if they purposely lose seeing it's a signal the club is willing to throw them under the bus for the new, shiny toy. Nor can a coaching staff afford to care about the long term future, which is also why vets don't tend to get dumped so they can play the kids and why teams select like they're trying to win games even if they're nowhere near. Eventually it's the same reason as to why you see teams like Adelaide, Hawks etc going for wins despite being nowhere near competitive and harming their long term future.

The tanking you're talking about doesn't exist in todays football, and the closest it gets is just teams putting players in surgery early. Melbournes tried it and kind of killed it as a viable idea.

The tanking that does is a whole more subtle, and completely done through list management. Considering the off-season, there is only one team you could throw the tanking accusation at this year, and it's Hawthorn. A young list and going hard to remove veterans who would be comfortable best 10 players on their list is a big indicator they were punting 2023 for draft picks. Right now, you'd also say they absolutely nailed that call. Unfortunately (or fortunately) for them, North and West Coast are just bad and bad teams can out s**t tanking teams who have their house sorted.

 

[Freomaniac]

Tanking these days isnt like it was 10 years ago. Teams would tank to get a priority pick, these days it's to get only 1 pick higher.

A bit meh really.

Thats true...

Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, you had reasons to tank.

Your team wins 4 games or less, the priority pick was an early 2nd rounder.

You do it again, your priority pick was an early 1st rounder.

There were acutally incentives to actually finish as low as possible.

Team gets the wooden spoon for the 2nd or 3rd year in a row with 4 wins or less, take pick 1 then pick 3 or 4.

Get 2 kids to turn into superstars a few years down the track.

Now days, you tank to get a top 5 pick and trade that for multiple picks and players.

 

[H00t]

Thats true...

Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, you had reasons to tank.

Your team wins 4 games or less, the priority pick was an early 2nd rounder.

You do it again, your priority pick was an early 1st rounder.

There were acutally incentives to actually finish as low as possible.

Team gets the wooden spoon for the 2nd or 3rd year in a row with 4 wins or less, take pick 1 then pick 3 or 4.

Get 2 kids to turn into superstars a few years down the track.

Now days, you tank to get a top 5 pick and trade that for multiple picks and players.

North are tanking for a big handout currently much in the same vein as back in the day.

As long as the AFL keeps the door open teams will do it. North getting something last year seems to have encouraged them to go back for more.