Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

[PieNSauce]

I agree that Bucks has maintained that. I'm just concerned that he might be putting it all down to a lack of pressure on the ball carrier and ignoring the fact that even when we had numbers back and it was a slow entry by the Saints, all they had to do was switch the play and then they were able to easily spot up loose players in their forward 50. More pressure at the ball, is likely to mean less blokes in defensive 50, which means that it will be even easier to spot up targets, unless we make a very significant change to our defensive structure in defence.

I think the point he was trying to make was that if the ball is going to come back in so fast and so often, the defenders will always be on a hiding to nothing. There simply didn't seem to be a defensive mindset with our mids and forwards and any good work done by the defenders was quickly wasted by the forwards and mids by allowing the ball to come back in almost without a contest. I understand what you're saying but I think it's impossible for a backline to do all of the defending unaided and ultimately their heads are always likely to drop under those circumstances. No argument here, just an opinion.

 

[Unknown Identity]

No, this is the entirety of the post I responded to:

If you think it's rational to sack a coach after 3 rounds of footy then bully for you. I just happen to believe it's utter lunacy.

If you think that the opinions of supporters are based on 3 rounds of football you're sadly mistaken.

I've followed Bucks with blind faith for 90% of his coaching career as have many of our supporters..

He no longer has my and many others blind support.

Raw data shows a decline in many key areas, and any critical thinker can watch our gameday tactics and decide that this isn't currently working.

Buckley now needs to earn back the supporters faith in HIS direction and that's not necessarily with wins but improvements with playing style and and key performance indicators.

Every fan can handle losing close games playing solid footy.. what they can't swallow is insipid performances that only show an epic regression.

 

[Quicky]

I agree that Bucks has maintained that. I'm just concerned that he might be putting it all down to a lack of pressure on the ball carrier and ignoring the fact that even when we had numbers back and it was a slow entry by the Saints, all they had to do was switch the play and then they were able to easily spot up loose players in their forward 50. More pressure at the ball, is likely to mean less blokes in defensive 50, which means that it will be even easier to spot up targets, unless we make a very significant change to our defensive structure in defence.

That switch of play was so frustratingly effective at moving our zone out of position. I couldn't believe it. I thought our zone was sitting too deep and not pushing up to pressure their half back line enough. We were defending too deep.

I also thought our movement, concentration and anticipation was really poor which helped StKilda pick hole in the zone even when it was firmly in place. This coaching group is really struggling to get the playing group to use a zone effectively.

 

[CFC2010]

If you think that the opinions of supporters are based on 3 rounds of football you're sadly mistaken.

I've followed Bucks with blind faith for 90% of his coaching career as have many of our supporters..

He no longer has my and many others blind support.

Raw data shows a decline in many key areas, and any critical thinker can watch our gameday tactics and decide that this isn't currently working.

Buckley now needs to earn back the supporters faith in HIS direction and that's not necessarily with wins but improvements with playing style and and key performancd indicators.

Every fan can handle losing close games playing solid footy.. what they can't swallow is insipid performances that only show an epic regression.

Well said U I

I think "most" rational Collingwood supporters are feeling the same as you.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[jimmy35]

If you think that the opinions of supporters are based on 3 rounds of football you're sadly mistaken.

I've followed Bucks with blind faith for 90% of his coaching career as have many of our supporters..

He no longer has my and many others blind support.

Raw data shows a decline in many key areas, and any critical thinker can watch our gameday tactics and decide that this isn't currently working.

Buckley now needs to earn back the supporters faith in HIS direction and that's not necessarily with wins but improvements with playing style and and key performancd indicators.

Every fan can handle losing close games playing solid footy.. what they can't swallow is insipid performances that only show an epic regression.

Top post

 

[PieNSauce]

If you think that the opinions of supporters are based on 3 rounds of football you're sadly mistaken.

I've followed Bucks with blind faith for 90% of his coaching career as have many of our supporters..

He no longer has my and many others blind support.

Raw data shows a decline in many key areas, and any critical thinker can watch our gameday tactics and decide that this isn't currently working.

Buckley now needs to earn back the supporters faith in HIS direction and that's not necessarily with wins but improvements with playing style and and key performance indicators.

Every fan can handle losing close games playing solid footy.. what they can't swallow is insipid performances that only show an epic regression.

I don't think that you will find many who have blind faith in the coach, myself included. I am simply making the point that 3 games into a season is an idiotic time to be sacking a coach under any circumstances unless he has lost the support of the players and they are openly defying him. There is zero to be gained by doing that when we all know and have seen what can be achieved even if we are concerned that it will not. Have no fear, if things don't improve drastically by the half way mark the chorus will be very loud but round 3? Seriously?

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

No, this is the entirety of the post I responded to:

If you think it's rational to sack a coach after 3 rounds of footy then bully for you. I just happen to believe it's utter lunacy.

I think it's crazier that some think we want Bucks gone purely from the last 3 rounds in isolation. It's almost as if some of you have only been watching Collingwood the last 3 weeks or something.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Looks like Garlett might miss.

I hope not. I don't want anything happening that could increase our chances of winning this game so that everyone can be all happy again and completely ignore how shit we really are.

Nothing will change if we're not completely exposed for the bottom 4 side we currently are under Bucks.

So we would lose a pick 1-4 to GWS - heck - I bet none of us factored that in. I was only looking at giving a 10-13 pick away - awkward!

 

[Unknown Identity]

So we would lose a pick 1-4 to GWS - glory be - I bet none of us factored that in. I was only looking at giving a 10-13 pick away - awkward!

Glory be indeed!

 

[PieNSauce]

I think it's crazier that some think we want Bucks gone purely from the last 3 rounds in isolation. It's almost as if some of you have only been watching Collingwood the last 3 weeks or something.

No, it's crazy that people think that 3 games into a new season is a sensible time to be sacking a coach. If I were to take your point to the extreme, the fact that we won the premiership 1990 means we should sack Bucks.

 

[NT.Thunder]

No, it's crazy that people think that 3 games into a new season is a sensible time to be sacking a coach. If I were to take your point to the extreme, the fact that we won the premiership 1990 means we should sack Bucks.

But UI is right, when you look at his numbers in their entirety, there's a pretty strong case to make isn't there. Have we somewhat reset Buckley's timeline this year and do we ignore the previous years and just write them off. I'm all for cutting the guy some slack, but how much do we cut him.

I'm not a big fan of a mid season sacking, but I'm not a big fan of seeing the clubs demise. I'm still flabbergasted his coaching contract was extended recently though.

 

[Unknown Identity]

But UI is right, when you look at his numbers in their entirety, there's a pretty strong case to make isn't there. Have we somewhat reset Buckley's timeline this year and do we ignore the previous years and just write them off. I'm all for cutting the guy some slack, but how much do we cut him.

I'm not a big fan of a mid season sacking, but I'm not a big fan of seeing the clubs demise. I'm still flabbergasted his coaching contract was extended recently though.

There's never a good time to sack a coach but losses to Melbourne and Essendon and the Tuesday after Anzac Day sounds about right.

But when it's not working the sooner something is done the better. Can't keep writing off season after season while some of our better players are getting older and you come full circle with another rebuild again without making finals.

The good clubs never fall out of finals contention for more than 1 to 2 years and based on what we've seen it will be 3 years and not close to making the 8.

 

[PieNSauce]

But UI is right, when you look at his numbers in their entirety, there's a pretty strong case to make isn't there. Have we somewhat reset Buckley's timeline this year and do we ignore the previous years and just write them off. I'm all for cutting the guy some slack, but how much do we cut him.

I'm not a big fan of a mid season sacking, but I'm not a big fan of seeing the clubs demise. I'm still flabbergasted his coaching contract was extended recently though.

Look, we could go over a lot of old ground here and frankly I'm not at all concerned that some here don't share my view. That said, Eddie himself has stated that we are just over 2 years into a list rebuild that was precipitated by players thinking they were bigger than the club. So for mine, talk of 5 years of demise is IMO simplistic in the extreme. I will admit that at times since then even I have been overly optimistic because of the absolute potential of the list I believe we now have but reality has kicked in for me and that reality is the age and maturity of the list as well as some key areas where I felt that the playing personnel would be quicker to mature.

Nobody is more embarrassed or frustrated than I am about our start to the year but I take the view that the sample is too small to make a call. Like you and most of us, I will not sit idly by if we don't improve but to be fair, calls of final 8 were probably overly optimistic. My expectation is an improvement and nobody can deny that what we have seen so far does not indicate improvement. I just don't think that I have seen enough to convince me with any degree of certainty that we won't see improvement.

 

[Moose1414]

Imagine instead of MM doing his thing at Carlton 13/14, what if he would have the same disastrous effect at Collingwood? Eddie might have saved us from disaster there...

We were 1 bounce away from not even having this discussion about MM as premiership coach.

Obviously you're not a fan of Malthouse. Maybe Eddie did save the club from disaster, we'll never know but history will say that Mick handed over a team that had a recent flag and finished top of the ladder. Not sure you can ask more than that.

If we're going second guess what might of been had the ball bounced differently on the day, if I was Mick I'd be saying: Geez if we didn't have to play our home finals in Melbourne when I was at West Coast and if Brisbane didn't have the team of the century thanks to merging their list with Fitzroy and having a bigger salary cap than us then I should really of won 6 Premierships, at least 3 each at both Eagles and Pies and gone down as the greatest coach in history.

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend MM or NB's records but was just wondering how it is Eddie gets to be President for life and make all these executive decisions independent of on field results?

 

[PieNSauce]

Obviously you're not a fan of Malthouse. Maybe Eddie did save the club from disaster, we'll never know but history will say that Mick handed over a team that had a recent flag and finished top of the ladder. Not sure you can ask more than that.

If we're going second guess what might of been had the ball bounced differently on the day, if I was Mick I'd be saying: Geez if we didn't have to play our home finals in Melbourne when I was at West Coast and if Brisbane didn't have the team of the century thanks to merging their list with Fitzroy and having a bigger salary cap than us then I should really of won 6 Premierships, at least 3 each at both Eagles and Pies and gone down as the greatest coach in history.

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend MM or NB's records but was just wondering how it is Eddie gets to be President for life and make all these executive decisions independent of on field results?

Can I ask what it is that makes you believe that Eddie gets to be president for life not to mention what makes you think he makes decisions unilaterally? I've never seen evidence of that other than Eddie haters who take joy in saying it without any shred of evidence.

 

[PicaBoo]

Obviously you're not a fan of Malthouse. Maybe Eddie did save the club from disaster, we'll never know but history will say that Mick handed over a team that had a recent flag and finished top of the ladder. Not sure you can ask more than that.

I am a fan of what MM has achieved at Collingwood, not what he has done after that nor 100% convinced of his legacy. Any discussion on what might have been regarding the succession plans, I use MM post Collingwood credentials. Those are not flattering.

 

[PieNSauce]

The bolded doesn't quite make sense.

But I"m not suggesting we sack Bucks now. That wouldn't happen even if we wanted it. Ed would NEVER sack a coach mid season. If he didn't do it with Shaw, he certainly won't be doing it with Bucks. I don't even think losing every game for the rest of the year (quite possible) would lead to Bucks being sacked mid season.

But losing to Melbourne and Essendon (all but guaranteed to happen) will basically have his papers signed for the end of 2016. He won't be coaching us in 2017 if we lose the next 2.

The comment about 1990 was tongue-in-cheek and was stated to be extreme but basically highlights the weakness in arguments suggesting that the fact we have gone backwards in terms of ladder position every year under Bucks can be attributed entirely to Bucks. The reality is that the list rebuild is just over 2 years in. The side that runs out in 2016 is not the same side that ran out in 2015 or 2014 and anything before that is irrelevant IMO. I'm not going to argue that the next few weeks are not critical to Bucks' fate because I happen to agree. My simple point was that 3 weeks is too small a sample to make such a momentous call.

 

[sr36]

Look, we could go over a lot of old ground here and frankly I'm not at all concerned that some here don't share my view. That said, Eddie himself has stated that we are just over 2 years into a list rebuild that was precipitated by players thinking they were bigger than the club. So for mine, talk of 5 years of demise is IMO simplistic in the extreme. I will admit that at times since then even I have been overly optimistic because of the absolute potential of the list I believe we now have but reality has kicked in for me and that reality is the age and maturity of the list as well as some key areas where I felt that the playing personnel would be quicker to mature.

Nobody is more embarrassed or frustrated than I am about our start to the year but I take the view that the sample is too small to make a call. Like you and most of us, I will not sit idly by if we don't improve but to be fair, calls of final 8 were probably overly optimistic. My expectation is an improvement and nobody can deny that what we have seen so far does not indicate improvement. I just don't think that I have seen enough to convince me with any degree of certainty that we won't see improvement.

I suspect that like the rest of us you will sit idly by, unless you have a damn site more power than the rest of us posters.

 

[PieNSauce]

I suspect that like the rest of us you will sit idly by, unless you have a damn site more power than the rest of us posters.

lol. I may sit by but I doubt I will be idle!

 

[golazo]

Look, we could go over a lot of old ground here and frankly I'm not at all concerned that some here don't share my view. That said, Eddie himself has stated that we are just over 2 years into a list rebuild that was precipitated by players thinking they were bigger than the club. So for mine, talk of 5 years of demise is IMO simplistic in the extreme. I will admit that at times since then even I have been overly optimistic because of the absolute potential of the list I believe we now have but reality has kicked in for me and that reality is the age and maturity of the list as well as some key areas where I felt that the playing personnel would be quicker to mature.

Nobody is more embarrassed or frustrated than I am about our start to the year but I take the view that the sample is too small to make a call. Like you and most of us, I will not sit idly by if we don't improve but to be fair, calls of final 8 were probably overly optimistic. My expectation is an improvement and nobody can deny that what we have seen so far does not indicate improvement. I just don't think that I have seen enough to convince me with any degree of certainty that we won't see improvement.

Agreed

 

[Matt_352]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-02/dew-a-standout-in-afl-coaching-accreditation-course

Good enough for me. GET HIM.

 

[sr36]

lol. I may sit by but I doubt I will be idle!

Yeah, now that I think of it, I won't be sitting idly either. I'll be standing and yelling at the telly.

 

[sr36]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-02/dew-a-standout-in-afl-coaching-accreditation-course

Good enough for me. GET HIM.

Cue posts about him teaching us how to kick.

 

[PieNSauce]

Yeah, now that I think of it, I won't be sitting idly either. I'll be standing and yelling at the telly.

Yep. Helplessly is probably a better word!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-02/dew-a-standout-in-afl-coaching-accreditation-course

Good enough for me. GET HIM.

Need to do our Dew Diligence first.

I'll see myself out...