Society/Culture The Abortion Thread

[its free real estate]

On radio the other day there was a story about how New Zealand attaches personhood to rivers and mountains and s**t, and how personhood might be extended to a house or building of special significance. All in a very warm and avuncular tone by the same type of people who would be horrified by personhood being extended to say a foetus.

 

[skilts]

Thats why you need a framework of values and morals. Thats its job.

Lived experience is just one way to perceive and analyse things, and is no more real than any other. In fact it's inherently as subjective as knowledge can possibly get. So any claim to truth or superiority based on lived experience is inherently self-defeating.

There is no purpose in having a framework if such framework is not able to adjust to every unique circumstance which arises.

What you are lauding is merely an excuse not to think, when it is most required - when confronted with a moral dilemma. You think we should go to the appropriate book or opinion and try like buggery to make our dilemma fit to what someone who has never been in your position might suggest.

As for subjectivity/objectivity, I'd be interested to hear of your experiences with the disembodied thinking which must be in play during objectivity. It is impossible for humans to be objective. To do so would require us to be other than individual beings. To be inhuman, in fact.

Who mentioned anything about TRUTH? Therein lies your problem. You seem to think that the solution to any problem can be attained by adherence to frameworks, and then you have the temerity to call the result of this adherence TRUTH. I think you may have overreached yourself here old boy/girl. Anyway, what is TRUTH?

 

[ShanDog]

There is no purpose in having a framework if such framework is not able to adjust to every unique circumstance which arises.

What you are lauding is merely an excuse not to think, when it is most required - when confronted with a moral dilemma. You think we should go to the appropriate book or opinion and try like buggery to make our dilemma fit to what someone who has never been in your position might suggest.

As for subjectivity/objectivity, I'd be interested to hear of your experiences with the disembodied thinking which must be in play during objectivity. It is impossible for humans to be objective. To do so would require us to be other than individual beings. To be inhuman, in fact.

Who mentioned anything about TRUTH? Therein lies your problem. You seem to think that the solution to any problem can be attained by adherence to frameworks, and then you have the temerity to call the result of this adherence TRUTH. I think you may have overreached yourself here old boy/girl. Anyway, what is TRUTH?

A framework is something to work FROM not TO. You have it back-asswards. If a difficult question comes up, you consult the framework to make the best decision you can, not change the question to fit your framework. Sometimes people get it wrong and do that, sure.

Of course we are talking about truth. Abortion discussion is all about the moral right or wrong, and to come to a decision you have to make a truth claim.

 

[Maggie5]

Here is another side to the coin of partner rights to a child.

A judge in Brazil has ordered identical twin brothers to pay maintenance to a child whose paternity could not be established.

The men refused to say which one of them had fathered the child, assuming they would then be able to escape having to pay.

A DNA test proved inconclusive because of their identical twin status.

The judge said the two men were taking away from the young girl the right to know who her biological father was.

"One of them is acting in bad faith in order to hide the fact that he is the father. Such vile behaviour cannot be tolerated by the law," wrote the judge in the town of Cachoeira Alta.

The judge said the twins had used their resemblance to impersonate each other and date as many women as possible, and then defend themselves from allegations they were cheating on girlfriends.

 

[AM]

So chuffed the High Court has upheld the legality of safe access zones. Thereby stopping the God botherers from harassing people within 150 metres of clinics.

I see the God botherers have also taken to harassing people at the most stressful time of their lives - quite despicably - at Peter Mac

My experience with these individuals, who have a need to intimidate people who see things differently, (that would be the overwhelming majority in this case) are generally from the extreme right of the Catholic church.

 

[Admiral Byng]

So chuffed the High Court has upheld the legality of safe access zones. Thereby stopping the God botherers from harassing people within 150 metres of clinics.

I see the God botherers have also taken to harassing people at the most stressful time of their lives - quite despicably - at Peter Mac

My experience with these individuals, who have a need to intimidate people who see things differently, (that would be the overwhelming majority in this case) are generally from the extreme right of the Catholic church.

good show.

 

[Smartest Brain]

So chuffed the High Court has upheld the legality of safe access zones. Thereby stopping the God botherers from harassing people within 150 metres of clinics.

I see the God botherers have also taken to harassing people at the most stressful time of their lives - quite despicably - at Peter Mac

My experience with these individuals, who have a need to intimidate people who see things differently, (that would be the overwhelming majority in this case) are generally from the extreme right of the Catholic church.

Since adult humans are literally a "clump of cells" I can't wait until the laws are extended. Exciting times ahead.

 

[Leeda]

Since adult humans are literally a "clump of cells" I can't wait until the laws are extended. Exciting times ahead.

sarcasm doesn't become you and anyone has a choice to envelop or develop or even un devolve a person if they so choose..

 

[Leeda]

Since adult humans are literally a "clump of cells" I can't wait until the laws are extended. Exciting times ahead.

on the current thought process I actually agree.. I am not sure that I made that quite clear.. never mind..

 

[Yellabellabingbangboo]

The statistics are the real life situations. I understand they might not suit your established mental situation but they are the facts.

Pro-life = abstinence, adoption, parenting, contraception
Pro-choice = abstinence, adoption, parenting, contraception, abortion

It's the only difference, hence - pro-abortion.

What about the vast numbers of people whi are pro choice but wouldn't have an abortion themselves?

 

[Taylor]

What about the vast numbers of people whi are pro choice but wouldn't have an abortion themselves?

Pro-abortion but wouldn't have it themselves is, in my view, a libertarian viewpoint that just doesn't see an unborn as a human life. Otherwise they would be content with the government protecting the life.

 

[Yellabellabingbangboo]

Pro-abortion but wouldn't have it themselves is, in my view, a libertarian viewpoint that just doesn't see an unborn as a human life. Otherwise they would be content with the government protecting the life.

Yep correct so are they pro choice or pro abortion?

 

[Taylor]

Yep correct so are they pro choice or pro abortion?

They are pro-abortion. Pro-Choice means Pro-Abortion.

As I said before, the only difference between what is called pro-life and pro-choice is abortion.

If you're view is that an unborn is not a life then adding the option of abortion isn't being in favor of more choice, it's adding abortion. But again, if that's not a life to you then the government or other people shouldn't have any say in what happens - from a libertarian point of view.

Obviously I see that unborn as a life so I don't have a problem with government protection of that life.

 

[Yellabellabingbangboo]

Great and no doubt your humanity extends to all the children. Includung the poor disadvantaged kids.

 

[Taylor]

Great and no doubt your humanity extends to all the children. Includung the poor disadvantaged kids.

Their lives aren't worth less because they are poor or disadvantaged.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Have men got equal rights on this issue yet?

 

[Yellabellabingbangboo]

Have men got equal rights on this issue yet?

What measures do you propose if a woman wants her baby and the sperm doner doesn't? Capture her against her will and perform an abortion on her.

Awesome libertarian values you have there.

 

[its free real estate]

sperm doner

That’s an interesting kebab

 

[iBeng]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...es-ban-six-weeks-us-no-exemptions-vote-latest

By their logic here, morning after pill is murder and you could argue birth control is premeditated murder.

America, land of the backward.

 

[Taylor]

There are three questions to be asked here:
Would the red states be bringing in these laws if not for the blue states expending their abortion allowances? Probably.

Would the red states be doing this if they didn't think they had a majority on the supreme court should the laws be taken to the supreme court and overturn the Roe v Wade decision? Probably not.

Will any blue side take any of these bills to the supreme court to have them struck down when the risk is that they are upheld by the alleged conservative supreme court and that will be the norm? I think they get more traction out of talking about it but not taking any action against it.

 

[cartwright]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...es-ban-six-weeks-us-no-exemptions-vote-latest

By their logic here, morning after pill is murder and you could argue birth control is premeditated murder.

America, land of the backward.

Absolute madness.

“The measure contains no exception for rape and incest”

^ and this is just pure evil.



- and none of these hicks will ever face the decision

 

[armpit]

Probably a photo of the democratic men who thought aborting late term pregnancy would look even worse.

What about putting your minds to preventing the need for it you pathetic bunch.

What about free issue condoms, vasectomies free, both voluntary and otherwise. What about free vasectomies for men who want sexual abandon but not the consequences of the life long responsibility both financially and, you know being present in the kids life.

What about it? Free vasectomies. Make love not babies.

 

[quotemokc]

Absolute madness.

“The measure contains no exception for rape and incest”

^ and this is just pure evil.



- and none of these hicks will ever face the decision

You can't call those that don't want unborn babies to be murdered "evil", that makes no sense.

Rape and incest are such a minuscule amount of cases that using it in the header is such click bait you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Of course doctors should be punished for not following the law...

 

[cartwright]

You can't call those that don't want unborn babies to be murdered "evil", that makes no sense.

Rape and incest are such a minuscule amount of cases that using it in the header is such click bait you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Of course doctors should be punished for not following the law...

Pure evil to force a victim of sexual assault to continue with a pregnancy.
A rapist gets a lighter penalty than a dr in that pissant place.

 

[Taylor]

Probably a photo of the democratic men who thought aborting late term pregnancy would look even worse.

What about putting your minds to preventing the need for it you pathetic bunch.

What about free issue condoms, vasectomies free, both voluntary and otherwise. What about free vasectomies for men who want sexual abandon but not the consequences of the life long responsibility both financially and, you know being present in the kids life.

What about it? Free vasectomies. Make love not babies.

If that procedure existed back when Margaret Sanger kicked off planned parenthood then she would have encouraged every African American man to have it done.

Instead now her legacy of racist ethnic cleansing lives on in the millions of mostly African American babies aborted.