The Academies - 2016

[Turbocat]

No team has declined to match because they have been outbid

Pies told stewert they weren't going to select him well before the draft according to his father. That is not the behaviour of a team who is worried they won't be able to select a f/s because of bidding , that is a team not interested in a player. Your claim teams are backing away from selecting father sons is bullshit and I challenge you to point out one example. Pies not confident in getting stewert for the price they valued him at? I already quoted an article where his father stated they didn't even speak to him a year before the draft and told him they wouldn't be drafting him long before they could have known where a bid would come.

The current father son rules are a huge improvement over the farce they used to be.

Swans chose not to match on Dunkley...

There are several Father Sons playing thru the league for clubs other than their father... main due to the clubs deciding to tell the player they did not want them or they couldn't guarantee that another club rated them better. Kelly at Adelaide and Picken at Dogs.... they usually have a good feel for how another club rates them.... but I have to say I surprised at your vehemence.

I am in fact saying that clubs with FS had an advantage and was deemed as such. It was then tuned/corrected , the advantage has been reduced to make it fairer. The Father Son rule has been adjusted several times... and in that sense I can see similarities between it and the Academy picks.

 

[philthy05]

Because you made the claim that father sons were being passed over because teams couldn't match bids


Now you have slightly moved your position to I don't know what. Any father sons that have been passed over have been done so because the team didn't rate them. Kelly and picken are perfect examples.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Over the last 5 years we've lost Scully, Rivers, Frawley, Clark, Toumpas, Howe and could potentially lose Hogan who is seen to be one of the most promising KPF's in the comp. Maybe Brisbane have been losing players because of Voss and the culture/environment up there rather than players just wanting to go home.

As above, GWS has signed plenty of promising young players with clubs from their home states chasing them over the last couple of years - there doesn't really seem to be a big issue with player retention, certainly not as big as is being made out. Gold Coast haven't seemed to have lost many players and Sydney seem to be a destination club rather than the opposite. Seems like its just a Brisbane problem retaining players.

Hardly to the go home factor, all those listed stayed in Vic except Scully and Toumpass. Their age profile is a lot different too, expect the above two again. Losing draftees after only a few years in the system is the worst, it a vicious cycle, their value is arguably at their lowest, stalls team development, hard to build a competitive list this flows on to a lot of other areas too.

If your club faced the same disadvantages the Northern clubs face, you would be in the same position your in now.

 

[TradeDraft]

What a joke! Brayshaw was on The Footy Show complaining about the GWS academy last night.

Don't Blame Him and he is Telling the Truth

 

[Fat Tony!]

Don't Blame Him and he is Telling the Truth

I agree. I think it is just hypocritical.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Hardly to the go home factor, all those listed stayed in Vic except Scully and Toumpass. Their age profile is a lot different too, expect the above two again. Losing draftees after only a few years in the system is the worst, it a vicious cycle, their value is arguably at their lowest, stalls team development, hard to build a competitive list this flows on to a lot of other areas too.

If your club faced the same disadvantages the Northern clubs face, you would be in the same position your in now.

Geez you lot love to complain about perceived inequalities in the competition

 

[dlanod]

Geez you lot love to complain about perceived inequalities in the competition

The irony of posting that in a thread that's basically 22 pages of complaining about the perceived inequality of academies seems lost on you.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

The irony of posting that in a thread that's basically 22 pages of complaining about the perceived inequality of academies seems lost on you.

What i love even more is watching the AFL making an absolute ass of themselves. Ever since they screwed up and gave the Northern clubs an Academy each, they've tried everything their little brains can come up with to counter the major advantages they obviously gave.
In the end they've just said **** it, threw their arms up in the air, and give one to every club.

Hilarious, unfortunately they continue to royally screw with the integrity of the competition but the AFL already ruined that when they created Brisbane's success.

 

[grouse mate]

None of that negates my argument.

He was in the academy well before getting any scholarship. Your trying to make it sound like we poached him from tac cup which is bs. The argument should be if he wasnt in the academy would he have had the profile to receive a scholarship.

 

[philthy05]

He was in the academy well before getting any scholarship. Your trying to make it sound like we poached him from tac cup which is bs. The argument should be if he wasnt in the academy would he have had the profile to receive a scholarship.

No I didn't. You have misread it. Read my post , and maybe the rest for context.

Here I'll explain it a bit more. I like the academies as I think they give the non trad footy states a better mix of hometown talent , give young kids access to coaching they could not have access to otherwise and can develop talent and interest in the non traditional footy areas.

I dislike Riverina being a part of it because it is not a non traditional area , and their kids can have access to quality coaching as much as any country town in any heartland state could have , and gws have enough access to quality nsw talent to set a very good hometown to interstate balance without them. But most of all taking a kid into the academy , and then outside of the zone doesn't do anything to develop the area. Training academy prospects and playing them in leagues inside these non traditional states helps the leagues , interest and quality of more then just that one player.

To make my point clearer , if port and crows pulled the best juniors out of the sth Aus Jnr comps and put them in tac footy , while it might be good for those players , does it make the jnrs competition weaker ? Of course it does. Would that be good for football in Sth Aus overall? Of course not. The same for nsw. Every academy kid should be kept in the state system and the state system brought up. If hopper or whoever wants to be in the tac then that is their choice.

 

[KeSter]

I think the whole issue of academies needs to be looked at in isolation. GWS, for instance, look like having four top ten picks come out of their recruiting zones this year. Make no mistake they will have to trade off some serious talent to build up the points to take them but at least they are there to make that decision on.

The Lions look like having one (perhaps) and GCS probably none in the top ten, hardly enough to lift either of them out of the mire of the bottom eight anytime soon. The AFL concessions should increase the further you get from the AFL home land, the lions don't even have a retention allowance anymore; and so are a basket case on AFL life support. Better to relocate the Lions to Tasmania than let them wallow in a place where no one cares about AFL.

People don't understand that you may as well be in New Zealand or Hawaii when it comes to AFL, no one cares in QLD.

 

[Suma Magic]

GWS were given the equivalent of a top 20 pick in discounts last year.

With the ability to trade high picks for lower picks of greater value, this increases the value higher.

This year it's looking to be even greater.

Surely this is too much reward?

 

[Garlic muncher]

Personally i think it is fantastic that GWS has chopped both the WA and SA recruiting staff, saving those boys from being drafted to sin city !

 

[dlanod]

Personally i think it is fantastic that GWS has chopped both the WA and SA recruiting staff, saving those boys from being drafted to sin city !

They just couldn't deal with the drive-by shootings as well as Victorian and NSW natives.

 

[CallumMills2020]

Eddie keeping the Macarthyism going about the Academies.

What he has neglected to talk about is how clubs like GWS have had a huge loss of top end players and had their salary cap strained by ridiculous offers continually levelled at their players.

Some of the players already gone -
Tom Boyd - Pick 1
Jonathan O'Rourke - Pick 2
Dom Tyson - Pick 3
Lachie Plowman - Pick 3
Adam Treloar - Pre-Selection (Runner up club champion 2015)
Liam Sumner - Pick 10
Kristian Jaksch - Pick 12
Taylor Adams - Pick 13

They have basically had their high end talent r*ped by the Victorian clubs. Some of the guys that have come through for them like Lobb and Williams could have been selected by anybody.

This stuff about the Academies is such a knee jerk reaction. How many players have been drafted from the Riverina in the last 10 years prior to the Giants Academy??

Could it be that Eddie and his mates have their eyes on young Charlie Spargo who is being touted as a potential champion?? (http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-13/giants-unearth-another-top-academy-prospect).

And what of father-son?? GWS won't have their first father-son for at least 20 years, how are they compensated for that or does that just fall into the tough t***ies category??

Last time I checked GWS hadn't even won a final let alone a flag yet all this fear mongering and hysteria. Who the hell is Eddie Maguire anyway to arrogantly dictate what the AFL does.

It's self interest at its finest and it is pathetic.

 

[Carl]

Easiest solution- clubs pay proper compensation. If a club drafts a player with pick 10, then the club must pay pick 10 compensation. No discount.

Another idea is Vic/SA and WA clubs get to name 1 under 12 player each year. They can help develop this player until draft age. That will mean after 6 years they will have 1 academy player they can bid on each year if they are any good.

 

[Suma Magic]

I think we all feel sorry with how hard done by GWS has been in regards to recruitment and retention concessions. Talk about setting up a club for failure.

 

[Colonial]

I think we all feel sorry with how hard done by GWS has been in regards to recruitment and retention concessions. Talk about setting up a club for failure.

Retention?

We got start up concessions yes. But recruitment and retention?

 

[Suma Magic]

Retention?

We got start up concessions yes. But recruitment and retention?

Higher ongoing salary cap. Swans get one too.

 

[Colonial]

Higher ongoing salary cap. Swans get one too.

Actually i was under the impression that as our list size shrunk so does our cap.

 

[dlanod]

Higher ongoing salary cap. Swans get one too.

That's gone as of the end of this year. There was some discussion of it on every AFL site at the time, I'm surprised you missed it.

 

[Suma Magic]

Actually i was under the impression that as our list size shrunk so does our cap.

It does, but still remains higher than 16 other clubs (as Giants and Swans get an ongoing rent subsidy).

 

[Suma Magic]

That's gone as of the end of this year. There was some discussion of it on every AFL site at the time, I'm surprised you missed it.

I'm referring to the rental subsidy.

In surprised that some people still think the CoLA was removed, rather than just being reduced (and renamed) as it actually was.

 

[dlanod]

It does, but still remains higher than 16 other clubs (as Giants and Swans get an ongoing rent subsidy).

I'm referring to the rental subsidy.

In surprised that some people still think the CoLA was removed, rather than just being reduced (and renamed) as it actually was.

"a rental subsidy for each player on below average player payments. The rental subsidy to be paid direct to players by the AFL."

I'm sure GWS and Sydney will look forward to using this subsidy to recruit below average players.

I also look forward to your analysis of other payments from the AFL directly to players and how it contributes to those players' clubs' salary caps, e.g. ambassadors, promotional payments, and the like.

 

[Suma Magic]

"a rental subsidy for each player on below average player payments. The rental subsidy to be paid direct to players by the AFL."

I'm sure GWS and Sydney will look forward to using this subsidy to recruit below average players.

I also look forward to your analysis of other payments from the AFL directly to players and how it contributes to those players' clubs' salary caps, e.g. ambassadors, promotional payments, and the like.

An extra 400k to pay your list is handy, when only two clubs get it. It helps them to retain players.

That's all I'm saying.