The Academies - 2016

[isamedthegiants]

Trading for picks isn't an issue for GWS due to the overly generous start up concessions and the cycle of trading players for picks or picks for future picks could continue for years without effecting their onfield performance.

Going into this years draft GWS currently hold:

1st round GWS
1st round Carlton
1st round Collingwood
2nd round GWS
2nd round Adelaide
3rd round GWS
4th round GWS​

Hypothetical finishing positions Carlton 16th, Collingwood 15th, GWS 4th, Adelaide 6th gives GWS 6592 points before any trading.

The values given by go_the_dockers after discount is 6095 points, so without even going beyond the 2nd round they could select all 7 players and have the equivalent of about pick 36 left over. If you take into account the points from their redundant 3rd and 4th round picks it becomes the equivalent of about pick 24.

Possible 2017 picks assuming GWS trade out what isn't needed this year for equivalent 2017 picks:

1st round GWS
1st round Fremantle (McCarthy)
2nd round GWS
2nd round pick (left over 2016)
3rd round pick GWS
3rd round pick (left over 2016)
4th round pick GWS
4th round pick (left over 2016)​

With only the above picks they'd hold between 4000-6000 points going into 2017. Should Fremantle bounce back to 8th and GWS finish 4th they'd hold the about the same number of points as the 17th placed club (~4000 points). I can't see GWS having the list space to recruit 7 kids in 2016, so it's safe to assume they'll hold an additional 1000 points entering 2017 (between 5000-7000).

So.......Who picks up the others that we don't draft?

Kids that we have poured time, money, resources into get picked up by other clubs.

You're welcome AFL.

 

[Roylion]

If GWS signed all these players at these picks, they would get a total 1523.8 point discount. Which is about pick 8.


2. Harrison Macreadie - 195cm, 82kg defender from Henty (GWS) - 2517
12. Kobe Mutch - 184cm, 75kg midfielder from Bendigo Pioneers (GWS) - 1268
15. Will Setterfield - 189cm, 73kg midfielder from Sandringham Dragons (GWS) - 1112
20. Harrison Perryman - 184cm, 75kg midfielder/forward from Collingullie (GWS) - 912
24. Todd Marshall - 197cm, 87kg forward from Murray Bushrangers (GWS) - 785
34. Zac Sproule - 193cm, 81kg forward from Murray Bushrangers (GWS) -542
37. Thomas Highmore - 189cm, 80kg midfielder from Eastlake (GWS) -483

1523.8

But will they given, that other clubs will bid on them and that GWS may not have seven selections in the draft anyway? And even if they did have the selections they may prefer other players from other areas of the country.

If say Brisbane have Pick 4 and they wish to take Jacob Allison who was at one stage touted as a Top 5 pick and he is bid on at Pick 3 (2,234 points) by another club, then Brisbane needs to sacrifice their Pick 4 to gain him. The points value for Allison to be taken by Brisbane at #3 would be 1,788. (2,234 minus 20% discount) In this case, Brisbane's Pick 4 (the pick after which they are acquiring Allison) is downgraded to Pick 51. That may or may not be used. If Allison is not taken at 3 then Brisbane can select him at 4, or match a subsequent bid for him with their later picks. (if they have them)

In other words clubs need to be strategic if they wish to make the academy clubs pay a price for their Academy players.

 

[Super Hans]

It's really unfair that GWS can send someone like Jacob Hopper to Ballarat to play for St Pats and the Rebels for three or so years yet still claim him as a GWS academy member.

Have no problem with how any of the other clubs are given/run their academies.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Having advantages like easy third party payments and a rich vein of local talent to recruit from makes the comp uneven. I really wish Eddie would get his megaphone out and focus on those as well so all those chasing his tail would check that out.

NSW already have more local players coming through than WA.

I am still waiting for our travel allowance. I don't the advantages that SA and WA have over NSW and QLD teams that warrant the academies.

 

[Colonial]

Jack Steel was from the Canberra Academy. Another academy in an already strong AFL region.

Hahaha fmd [emoji57]

Thinks to self.
*be good general, be good.

 

[1892]

So.......Who picks up the others that we don't draft?

Kids that we have poured time, money, resources into get picked up by other clubs.

You're welcome AFL.

That would be AFL money and resources paid for by AFL money. AFL money which has been provided by all clubs in some way either through television deals or equalisation taxes/measures.

You're welcome GWS.

Also a lot of the academy kids play and develop their game in Victorian competitions or are existing talents signed just 12 months before drafting.

 

[Suma Magic]

Having advantages like easy third party payments and a rich vein of local talent to recruit from makes the comp uneven. I really wish Eddie would get his megaphone out and focus on those as well so all those chasing his tail would check that out.

It's probably the job of the Northern clubs to push those barrows.

 

[Colonial]

That would be AFL money and resources paid for by AFL money. AFL money which has been provided by all clubs in some way either through television deals or equalisation taxes/measures.

You're welcome GWS.

Also a lot of the academy kids play and develop their game in Victorian competitions or are existing talents signed just 12 months before drafting.

Out of our budget. And sponsors.

 

[dlanod]

That would be AFL money and resources paid for by AFL money. AFL money which has been provided by all clubs in some way either through television deals or equalisation taxes/measures.

You're welcome GWS.

It's not AFL money. Most of it is corporate money that the clubs raise through sponsorships. So thanks for nothing?

Also a lot of the academy kids play and develop their game in Victorian competitions or are existing talents signed just 12 months before drafting.

By "a lot" you mean... not many? Check out how many kids are actually in the academy and how many take part in these "Victorian competitions" or get signed just 12 months before drafting.

BTW the TAC Cup isn't a Victorian comp, it's an AFL comp - it's included parts of NSW for years.

 

[dlanod]

It's probably the job of the Northern clubs to push those barrows.

Sadly we don't get all the media in Melbourne hanging out on our every word up here, and without that we don't get the corresponding massive BF uproar. Woe is us! (Largely tongue in cheek obviously.)

 

[isamedthegiants]

That would be AFL money and resources paid for by AFL money. AFL money which has been provided by all clubs in some way either through television deals or equalisation taxes/measures.

You're welcome GWS.

Also a lot of the academy kids play and develop their game in Victorian competitions or are existing talents signed just 12 months before drafting.

And the quickest way to turn off the AFL money tap is for us to be successful, because nothing like success generates revenue in Sydney.

For us to achieve some sort of success we need access to good young kids, like the ones in the Riverina.

So, thank you AFL. We'll no longer take your money, and we'll keep the Riverina.

 

[1892]

NSW already have more local players coming through than WA.

I am still waiting for our travel allowance. I don't the advantages that SA and WA have over NSW and QLD teams that warrant the academies.

Rugby league and market share. It's about hurting increasing TV audiences and attendances in rugby league heart land and the best way to do this is to have northern clubs winning games and always up the top of the ladder.

 

[1892]

And the quickest way to turn off the AFL money tap is for us to be successful, because nothing like success generates revenue in Sydney.

For us to achieve some sort of success we need access to good young kids, like the ones in the Riverina.

So, thank you AFL. We'll no longer take your money, and we'll keep the Riverina.

The start up concessions GWS got were over the top and way to generous, you already have enough young kids through that to be successful. Expecting top 5 talents year after year is just being greedy and goes against equalisation. If you look at the history of the AFL zones are one of the worst things to happen to the game as there wasn't a spread of different sides winning flags.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Dear Ed Quixote... those aren't Giants. They're windmills.

 

[isamedthegiants]

The start up concessions GWS got were over the top and way to generous, you already have enough young kids through that to be successful. Expecting top 5 talents year after year is just being greedy and goes against equalisation. If you look at the history of the AFL zones are one of the worst things to happen to the game as there wasn't a spread of different sides winning flags.

Well considering there's only been 1 top 5 talent drafted from the Riverina since the year 2000, your point is fairly redundant.

 

[AliceCat]

Big Victoria clubs having a poor year..a few decent NSW prospects in the pipeline and the sky's falling in!

Eddies got a clever knack of deflecting the focus off his poor performing team/coach...that's the real issue at play.

 

[isamedthegiants]

Big Victoria clubs having a poor year..a few decent NSW prospects in the pipeline and the sky's falling in!

Eddies got a clever knack of deflecting the focus off his poor performing team/coach...that's the real issue at play.

This wins the internets for the day.

 

[1892]

It's not AFL money. Most of it is corporate money that the clubs raise through sponsorships. So thanks for nothing?



By "a lot" you mean... not many? Check out how many kids are actually in the academy and how many take part in these "Victorian competitions" or get signed just 12 months before drafting.

BTW the TAC Cup isn't a Victorian comp, it's an AFL comp - it's included parts of NSW for years.

I never mentioned that the TAC cup was a Victorian comp.

Victoria based club or late signings:

2015

Hopper - Nth Ballarat
Kennedy - signed late 2014 and had been a junior talent for years​

2016

Setterfield - Sandringham
Marshall - Murray Bushrangers
Mutch - Bendigo
Lynch - Murray Bushrangers
Sporule - Murray Bushrangers​

Others:

2015

Himmelberg - Riverina
Flynn - Riverina
​

2016

Macreadie - Riverina
Perryman - Riverina​

 

[1892]

7 clubs speaking out about it and a good summary of GWS start up concessions.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...m/news-story/8f0c11b65b9c7561d5bf134055e4d6f8

CLUB 1

“Credit to Sydney, they got Callum Mills out of North Shore, which is not AFL heartland. GWS is pulling them out of Albury and Wagga, which is AFL heartland, so it’s laughable.

“And when you talk (with others) in the market, they (GWS) haven’t done a lot (development) with these kids.


“(Will) Setterfield is from Caulfield Grammar and (Jacob) Hopper is from St Pats and it goes on and on. It is near impossible to compete.”

CLUB 2

“They (GWS) can get up to nine players (out of NSW) this year, which may be the equivalent to WA and SA’s draft talent combined.

“So the Giants not only have exclusive rights to them (players), they get them at a discounted rate, it’s Harvey Norman.

“So, instead of using pick No. 5, they can use, say, pick No. 8. They (AFL) have to reconsider the concessions they give them (GWS).”

CLUB 3

“It’s a joke, it it’s embarrassing and very frustrating. They’ve got about 10 kids they (GWS) will get and there might be only six kids coming out of South Australia this year.

“The answer is uncompromising drafting once and for all. It’s OK for Victorian and West Australian kids to move, it’s just ridiculous.

CLUB 4

“They have heaps this year — and they’re guns. A few of them are A-graders, too — first-rounders.

“Macreadie, Setterfield ... they’re in a very, very good position. The depth of talent, geez.”

CLUB 5

“The Giants have just rubbed it in everyone’s faces by doing so little work, putting in so little effort and then taking all the rewards.

“I’d get rid of all the academies, but if they have to have one it should be in Sydney’s west, not broader areas.

“The level of anger is high because we can see the academy players coming through in the next couple of years.

CLUB 6

“(Todd) Marshall was overseas playing cricket, comes home, starts playing footy, looks like an absolute star and they can just get him for nothing. It’s ridiculous.

“If they get kids from (rugby areas) Orange and Bathurst and Griffith — go for it. Get those kids and put time in to expand the pool. Put more time into Canberra.

“They can claim 19-year-olds as well, like when they got Jack Steele and Lachie Tiziani this year. If you have a chance you take it, if you don’t they should be available to the whole pool.

CLUB 7

“They’re not putting enough into those kids because they know they’re natural football kids.

“All they have to do now is show development plans for them and in the past they didn’t even have to talk to them until their draft year.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...m/news-story/8f0c11b65b9c7561d5bf134055e4d6f8

 

[Andre the Giant]

With due respect that's how politics is played out and policy change is driven.

I'm well aware but you are making light of it.

This has been very carefully crafted and is

The start up concessions GWS got were over the top and way to generous, you already have enough young kids through that to be successful. Expecting top 5 talents year after year is just being greedy and goes against equalisation. If you look at the history of the AFL zones are one of the worst things to happen to the game as there wasn't a spread of different sides winning flags.

You see one of the problems we have but you are too obtuse to see is that over 50% of the draft pool is from Victoria. Being a Victorian club Collingwood is in a very strong position even though your amazing recruitment team seems fixated with taking goats from Sth Australia.

The issue we are presented with is the strong go home factor which has already claimed a number of our top selections. It certainly doesn't help our cause to have young talents like Adams and Treloar poached by established clubs like Collingwood, a club I might add that has done very well recently with Father-Son selections that they had 1st dibs on and NSW and Intl rookie pick ups. I understand Collingwood will look to take another F/S this year in young Daicos.

Perhaps if you are going to offer patronising diatribes about other clubs you should look at your own club first. Perhaps if you did look at your own club first you may be traveling a bit better than you are now or is that all our fault as well??

 

[Suma Magic]

I'm well aware but you are making light of it.

This has been very carefully crafted and is


You see one of the problems we have but you are too obtuse to see is that over 50% of the draft pool is from Victoria. Being a Victorian club Collingwood is in a very strong position even though your amazing recruitment team seems fixated with taking goats from Sth Australia.

The issue we are presented with is the strong go home factor which has already claimed a number of our top selections. It certainly doesn't help our cause to have young talents like Adams and Treloar poached by established clubs like Collingwood, a club I might add that has done very well recently with Father-Son selections that they had 1st dibs on and NSW and Intl rookie pick ups. I understand Collingwood will look to take another F/S this year in young Daicos.

Perhaps if you are going to offer patronising diatribes about other clubs you should look at your own club first. Perhaps if you did look at your own club first you may be traveling a bit better than you are now or is that all our fault as well??

I'm not making light of it.

It's advocacy for a reasoned position. They have got a review of the Academy system, so their efforts have been fruitful.

 

[Colonial]

7 clubs speaking out about it and a good summary of GWS start up concessions.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...m/news-story/8f0c11b65b9c7561d5bf134055e4d6f8



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...m/news-story/8f0c11b65b9c7561d5bf134055e4d6f8

Wow traditional clubs bitching.
Didnt expect that. [emoji57]

 

[Bltiger]

I'm well aware but you are making light of it.

This has been very carefully crafted and is


You see one of the problems we have but you are too obtuse to see is that over 50% of the draft pool is from Victoria. Being a Victorian club Collingwood is in a very strong position even though your amazing recruitment team seems fixated with taking goats from Sth Australia.

The issue we are presented with is the strong go home factor which has already claimed a number of our top selections. It certainly doesn't help our cause to have young talents like Adams and Treloar poached by established clubs like Collingwood, a club I might add that has done very well recently with Father-Son selections that they had 1st dibs on and NSW and Intl rookie pick ups. I understand Collingwood will look to take another F/S this year in young Daicos.

Perhaps if you are going to offer patronising diatribes about other clubs you should look at your own club first. Perhaps if you did look at your own club first you may be traveling a bit better than you are now or is that all our fault as well??

Callan Ward, Tom scully,his father and co poached by gws while talking about poached.

 

[Andre the Giant]

I'm not making light of it.

It's advocacy for a reasoned position. They have got a review of the Academy system, so their efforts have been fruitful.

Please...it is bullying, manipulation, agitation and pressure to achieve self-interest.

If you place a piece of excrement in a pretty box and wrap it up with a bow it's still shit.

 

[Pykie]

I don't think anyone minds the Isaac Heeney scenario of getting young kids from other sports in area's like North Shore Sydney.

Everyone has a problem with Albury and the Riverina being in a zone, it's absolutely ridiculous.


As for GWS fostering young talent, it would be great if it was true. Jacob Hopper had never been to GWS training center till just before the draft, he had spoken to them once during the year. Not exactly an "academy" is it.


The GWS Zone lines should be changed to around 50-100km's north of the Barrassi line, so (no further south than Canberra or Griffith).

I also think there should be an age limit on the inclusion of the player in the academies. 15 years old sounds about right, it actually forces GWS to actively recruit and scout young players rather than just umbrella anyone in a rep side falling in their zone area's.


It's definitely the most broken "system" I can remember in quite a while.