Aka luke shuey vs matt priddis
Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left
- Thread starter BigVic
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Has been a joke for a long time now. Haven't watched for a few years now like most of the commercialized BS.
More about the Red carpet and Gill calling names out than the actual players.
If this pathetic showing, and it wasn't just the JHF one that was an out and out joke there were many more, doesn't wake people up to crap that goes on with this corporation nothing will.
More about the Red carpet and Gill calling names out than the actual players.
If this pathetic showing, and it wasn't just the JHF one that was an out and out joke there were many more, doesn't wake people up to crap that goes on with this corporation nothing will.
The only change I'd really like to see - perhaps along with 54321.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Neale probably should've finished 5th, 6th... Not 1st (nor 10th like you said.) But I agree with you, the Medal should've gone to either Bont or Trac. They are my personal picks as the two best players of 2023.
We will never get the "perfect" award. It doesn't exist. There will always be quibbles with the voting. Always. It doesn't matter what scoring system we use either - there will always be a "less deserving" player beating out the more highly fancied contenders. That's just the nature of these "best player" awards in our sport where we give the same small handful votes equally to all games.
I posted earlier about Woewodin, often regarded as one of the "worst" Brownlow Medalists. And yet he absolutely deserved to poll as many votes as he did in 2000 because the Dees finished 3rd with 14 wins and he stood out that year among Melbourne's plethora of b-grade midfielders. His flashy, hard-running, seagull-like, 28 disposal games scored the same number of votes as Kouta's superman-like, 33-disposal, 12 clearance, 3 goal games... (Scotty West and Kouta were probably robbed of a few votes too that year)
I noticed a few Bulldogs supporters melting about Neale winning and consoling themselves with Bont's MVP award, saying it's the best award, respect from your peers, etc... Just the players voting for who they think is the best. There's a lot of truth to that (leaving aside the usual gripes about young AFL players who don't watch any of the games and don't give a stuff who they vote for.)
But the thought also struck me... Last year Andrew Brayshaw was voted as the Player's MVP. No disrespect intended. He's a very good young player who had a great season. But was he REALLY the best player in the AFL? Better than the Brownlow medallist Patrick Cripps? Better than co-winner of the AFLCA award, Clayton Oliver, or his teammate Petracca? Better than Jeremy Cameron?
How the hell did that happen?
Or let's take a look at the AFLCA award. Zak Butters. Was he that much better in 2023 than Lachie Neale? last year: Tie between Touk Miller and Oliver... Oliver again the year before that... Lachie Neale in 2020... Is the recent honour roll of the AFLCA award any better than the Brownlow? The AFLCA award seems to be going to the hardest working inside midfielder. Are they the "best" players? Maybe they are...
People bag the Brownlow being a midfielders award... but the same people always bagged Cyril for 'only getting 14 or 15 touches'.
You can't have it both ways.
Forwards need to dominate a game in order to get votes... Not just from umpires... But from everyone: media, coaches, fans
Maybe we need to reassess the way we judge what exactly is a vote-worthy performance by a forward. Maybe it's not just about them kicking 4,5,6 goals. That happens only half a dozen times a year, even for the best of them. The game just doesn't allow them to do it. AFL defences don't allow it.
We seem to set the bar pretty low for the inside midfielders when it comes to awarding them votes. Most people fall back on awarding BOGs to the guy in the middle who sets up his team's victory with 32 touches, 15 contested and 8 clearances. Doesn't seem to matter that the losing team also has a couple of players with similar stats.
On the other hand, maybe it is these inside mids who are the best players and they're fully deserving of getting all the 2's and 3's
I don't know.
The Brownlow is far from perfect. But I like it's imperfections and all the melts. I like the variety of winners, the occasional surprise packet that everyone grumbles about. Without the Brownlow, we never would've recognised the outstanding seasons by Gavin Wanganeen, Jason Akermanis, Matt Priddis, Jimmy Bartel, Adam Cooney, Adam Goodes, Ollie Wines, Simon Black or Paul Kelly. None of them were favourites going in... But I think it was cool they were able to stand up on the stage, get a 'best player' medal draped around their neck and receive all the applause.
- May 13, 2014
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I didn't read them as saying the emergencies, just not the field umpires. The suggestion made on 3AW was that former umpires do it, whether or not they have the numbers to cover 9 games per week, every week is another thing. Do they have to be live at the ground or can they watch a replay the day after? Can the officiating umpires watch a replay and then submit their votes? Perhaps it's another reason to have full time professional umpires and watching replays and giving votes could be part of their job description.
- Mar 2, 2015
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I wouldn't trust ex-umps not to take under the table payments from bookies or crooked punters
The current field umpires don't want to lose their jobs. They're on a good wicket, with great money. But more than that, they love having their involvement in top level footy. Huge job satisfaction for them. Almost like being a player. They wouldn't risk losing it all to cop a bribe from the bookies.
I'm happy for the umps to keep awarding the Brownlow votes as they are.
I don't want ex-umps...
I definitely don't want ex-players like Wayne Carey or Kane Cornes sticking their bib in.
Leave it as it is. It's worked pretty well for 100 years.
Yes, games where he got 8 or 9 coaches votes but no Brownlow votes.
I simply don't understand the Brownlow outrage.
I've been saying for years that it's a load of s**t.
It is simply, and literally merely an award decided by arguably the least qualified people in the game.
Why are people wigging out about it now?
I've been saying for years that it's a load of s**t.
It is simply, and literally merely an award decided by arguably the least qualified people in the game.
Why are people wigging out about it now?
The game has changed though.
I mean there used to one umpire wasn't there?
And basically each player pretty much chased the ball around and tried to get it and kick as far forward as they could. The more times you did that - the better you played.
It doesn't work like that anymore. Very few people, let alone the freaking umpires, knows what each player's role is. How would an umpire know what job a coach has given each player, and how well he has done it?
FWIW, I have no issue with there being an umpires award. I just don't know why people give it any credence. Who gives the slightest s**t what the umpires think? They are mostly deplorable at their job - so why does anyone give a stuff about who they think played well?
But if there must be an umpire's award, they must surely allow each field umpire to give their own votes.
The consensus thing is nonsense.
If you look through the top 20 of each award of the past 20 years, you'll find a considerable amount of players that aren't 100% stoppage midfielders in the coach and player voted versions. Wingmen, utilities, ruckmen, forwards and defenders do still pop up a lot more frequently.Those positions don't win other awards anyway. Lance Franklin won 0 coaches or players' MVP awards. Nick Riewoldt was the last non-midfielder to win the players' MVP way back in 2004. Max Gawn is the only non-midfielder to have won the AFLCA award since 2005.
You can surf through the years at this link and see that midfielders dominate every count.
There are plenty in the media that have less idea than the umpires
More thought needs to go into it. To pick midfielders week upon week is just so inaccurate.
Their format nearly needs to be pick the best mid from each team , best defender and forward , then go from there with the 3,2,1 votes for influence on the game
Then we may get to see Harris Andrews, Tex Walker etc etc get some recognition for impact on games
Their format nearly needs to be pick the best mid from each team , best defender and forward , then go from there with the 3,2,1 votes for influence on the game
Then we may get to see Harris Andrews, Tex Walker etc etc get some recognition for impact on games
- Apr 29, 2016
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because many people are behind the curve. Just like Carlton fans getting up and about Cripps being the best in the game and value-ing the Brownlow heavy, yet didn't make the AA team and shouldn't have made the squad in 2023. Ollie Wines, probably not a top 150 player in the league despite having a record tying 36 votes a couple of seasons ago. It means next to nothing.
Shane Charters passes on his sincerest regards to Darcy and Woewodin.
Jeremias
Moderator
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #665
This is such a ridiculous overreaction.
The Brownlow is a completely subjective award. It relies on the opinions of the umpires; naturally there will be people who disagree both with the result and the way we get there.
Subjectivity breeds unexpected results. Every year we see them and every year they're met with outrage and calls to change the process.
No. If you are so hell bent on the award perfectly reflecting your expectations of the season that has just unfolded, then this award is not for you. And I dare say, what needs to change is both your expectation of the evening and how you view the award.
The Brownlow is viewed as a hugely prestigious award. Whether you agree with that view - or the process undertaken to crown a winner - does not change that.
Are people really under the impression that these voting anomalies are new? That they haven't been around for decades?
Of course they have. And you're completely naïve if you think otherwise.
And yet we still - for the most part, with some notable exceptions - hold the winners in high esteem. There is a reason for that, and rightly so.
If you want to consider the Brownlow of lesser significance than other awards, all power to you. Some prefer the MVP and there is merit to that opinion. But let's not pretend as though there are no 'credibility' issues with that either, because there are plenty. Yet conveniently in these sorts of discussions, those shortcomings are overlooked.
The only change I'd consider making to the award is affording the umpires an opportunity to view the stats before they submit their votes. But even that opens up a whole can of worms that I believe we would be better off without.
Cry harder.
The Brownlow is a completely subjective award. It relies on the opinions of the umpires; naturally there will be people who disagree both with the result and the way we get there.
Subjectivity breeds unexpected results. Every year we see them and every year they're met with outrage and calls to change the process.
No. If you are so hell bent on the award perfectly reflecting your expectations of the season that has just unfolded, then this award is not for you. And I dare say, what needs to change is both your expectation of the evening and how you view the award.
The Brownlow is viewed as a hugely prestigious award. Whether you agree with that view - or the process undertaken to crown a winner - does not change that.
Are people really under the impression that these voting anomalies are new? That they haven't been around for decades?
Of course they have. And you're completely naïve if you think otherwise.
And yet we still - for the most part, with some notable exceptions - hold the winners in high esteem. There is a reason for that, and rightly so.
If you want to consider the Brownlow of lesser significance than other awards, all power to you. Some prefer the MVP and there is merit to that opinion. But let's not pretend as though there are no 'credibility' issues with that either, because there are plenty. Yet conveniently in these sorts of discussions, those shortcomings are overlooked.
The only change I'd consider making to the award is affording the umpires an opportunity to view the stats before they submit their votes. But even that opens up a whole can of worms that I believe we would be better off without.
Geez we really did a number on you, didn't we?
Cry harder.
BringFevBack2021
Norm Smith Medallist
- May 9, 2021
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KPMG audit the Brownlow Medal count, what are you talking about? This is super misinformed.
Why the F would Eddie McGuire feel the need to shoehorn the term ‘Elders’ into his ‘just let a panel of retired players pick the Brownlow’ plan?
Of all people, why would he consider it a good idea to transplant that term and use it in a football context that it’s never before been used in.
The guy is nuts.
Of all people, why would he consider it a good idea to transplant that term and use it in a football context that it’s never before been used in.
The guy is nuts.
Rabish Binney
Left out overnight
Brownlow medal voting controversy
Film at 11:00
Film at 11:00
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
It's an "accumulator" award voted on by the very people we bitch and moan about week in and week out. Instead of making them better (making them professional and expecting high standards of decision making), the AFL just hire more of the same ineptitude. The Brownlow will never again be the prestigious award it once was.
The Real Deal 7
Draftee
- Sep 19, 2023
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- #672
True.
The way to fix it is umpire sequestration.
The way to fix it is umpire sequestration.
Yellow Feathers
Norm Smith Medallist
Did Neale have a 10x better season than Rowan Marshall? Umpires seem to think so.
Sheezel equally shunned.
Sheezel equally shunned.
Shane Heard
Brownlow Medallist
- Mar 11, 2018
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Jesus no…the morons can’t even comprehend basic rules on the field and vote 123 accurately let alone getting them to work out and vote top 5
