Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[__Bobcat__]

I can't tell from the footage but if Jones was watching his man, I.e. the kpf he is supposed to be marking, then it kind of looks like he wants space to launch and leap at it. You can argue that he should be on his shoulder but that's the way he often plays.

So potentially Plowman and Jones were looking after the one player leaving Lipinski, nominally Plowman's man free.

So was it a matter of the communication between the defenders failing, or negligence in marking?

Docherty was doing it as well, (earlier vision).
perhaps our Backline think they are invincible. or has been mentioned leave it up to someone else.
I don't care if its in the last 4 mins of the game or the first 4 mins. this vision is terrible and shows a lack of accountability from Both Doch and Jones.

 

[JustaBattler]

I can't tell from the footage but if Jones was watching his man, I.e. the kpf he is supposed to be marking, then it kind of looks like he wants space to launch and leap at it. You can argue that he should be on his shoulder but that's the way he often plays.

So potentially Plowman and Jones were looking after the one player leaving Lipinski, nominally Plowman's man free.

So was it a matter of the communication between the defenders failing, or negligence in marking?

Astute observation that deserves highlighting....

Jones needs a run up to make his leaping marking intercepts - he is effectively playing like a forward as a defender in terms of marking the ball. His standing vertical leap is nowhere near as good as his run and jump ablity. Jones is also just average at best at one on one body on body work - he is no Weitering as far as close marking goes.

As an aside he is also ( like Levi) extremely prone to injuring his own teammates in congestion. He gave Cripps an enormous hit midway through Q1 - and nearly took Docherty out at the same time - he is an accident waiting to happen with his style of crashing everyone - not just opposition.

ones is the #1 reason why we often see multiple Carlton talls going in for the same high ball contest, Jones is typicaly the last to arrive taking a running leap mark/spoil attempt over his own teammates- and too often we see spillage out the back OR a lame forward punch to waiting front and center opponents and easy goals as well.

This type of intercept marking is ok if you play a +1 defensive formation - and each player marks his own man closely with a Jones coming in to help. However as described on TV and in here - if we are playing Jones and Docherty and Saad as loose intercept rebounders - it is pretty hard for Plowman/Parks and Weitering to do all the close marking and too easy for opposition to get numeical or out the back joe the goose goals from goals side and space.

This has led to a lot of easy scoring against Calton - even Hooke was able to get fee nd alone in the Essendon game.

Again EASY to fix - but it hasnt been

 

[Coops93]

Jones plays off his man often because he has the athleticism and explosiveness to make up for the 2ish metres of space he gives them. It allows him to get a head start to intercept elsewhere.

Occasionally it does catch him out but it's what he's always done and tbh I don't mind him doing it. I don't really want Jones in a wrestling match; his strength is speed, not muscle.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

That's a lot of words for something I wasn't claiming.

Yes, Jones should look.

Yes, I also think we need to have a plus one at times, especially when the opposition is getting a run on.

Does Jones not turning his head stem from Teague not playing a +1 or from his own lack of awareness and discipline?

 

[__Bobcat__]

I can't tell from the footage but if Jones was watching his man, I.e. the kpf he is supposed to be marking, then it kind of looks like he wants space to launch and leap at it. You can argue that he should be on his shoulder but that's the way he often plays.

So potentially Plowman and Jones were looking after the one player leaving Lipinski, nominally Plowman's man free.

So was it a matter of the communication between the defenders failing, or negligence in marking?

Not a Plow fan sosos

 

[__Bobcat__]

If Jones has to play that way. he needs to be the last player behind the ball. (both Blues and opposition).

 

[Just Kreuzing]

If Jones has to play that way. he needs to be the last player behind the ball. (both Blues and opposition).

Yep wicket keeper or back stop role, loses vision or ball watches too much.

 

[Pentatonic Flat Fifth]

That's a lot of words for something I wasn't claiming.

Yes, Jones should look.

Yes, I also think we need to have a plus one at times, especially when the opposition is getting a run on.

You said "
Obviously a plus one would have solved that situation and every other instance of our defenders being caught out of position.

I agree we need the extra defender so if a defender is going to join in with an attacking surge, we are covered for the turnover. "


Jones turning and looking solves it - without impacting our entire attacking game plan. Pretty sure my post is on point.

 

[Bluey19]

Jones was at one stage was just sublime with his punching, what has changed that he now has to try and mark everything?

Something has changed with our defensive strategy such that our team defence looks broken at times.

I think this footage was in the last few minutes when we were trying to win the game, no excuse but we needed to kick 3 goals and everyone was pushing up.

Go to a game and watch. Jones plays his opponent from so far away and tries to sprint back all the time. It’s been happening for years and I honestly can’t believe he isn’t pulled up on it. The coach needs to say, stay on your man or you are out of the team. It is simple, he isn’t required to play off his man that is why we have nimble flankers ffs.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Watched that video from On the Couch with Lyon. Funnily I found it fairly positive - basically all of them were saying Carlton are pretty close and if we can fix up some of these basic defensive flaws we will be Ok.

The highlighting of these on national TV is probably a good thing. You'd think Jones will swivel his head next time.

 

[Lace_Out]

Bit frightening that we are paying 105% of the salary cap at the moment.

I thought Liddle said we would be having a crack in the trade period again? Looks like we may have a squeeze coming. Imagine if all our high draft picks had come on and were asking for significant pay rises.

Perhaps the Martin, McNuggets deals were heavily front-ended and I'm guessing Murph will be retiring at year end?

We are paying 105% because we payed 95% for 3 years prior to enable us to have the extra cash to spend when we needed it most.

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[Kernafides]

Docherty was doing it as well, (earlier vision).
perhaps our Backline think they are invincible. or has been mentioned leave it up to someone else.
I don't care if its in the last 4 mins of the game or the first 4 mins. this vision is terrible and shows a lack of accountability from Both Doch and Jones.

What if we'd won the ball and they used Jones to Springboard through the corridor and set up McKay....would they use the same footage to say Lipinski cheated and got burnt?? Yep he took a gamble...good teams get away with it.... we're not a good team

 

[Red_man2008]

Docherty was doing it as well, (earlier vision).
perhaps our Backline think they are invincible. or has been mentioned leave it up to someone else.
I don't care if its in the last 4 mins of the game or the first 4 mins. this vision is terrible and shows a lack of accountability from Both Doch and Jones.

I brought this up as a point for weitering to have in mind with the Ian Prendercast show but they palmed it off pretty quick 2-3 goals directly from him moving up to a contest he had no impact In nor was he going to.

 

[Bluey19]

What if we'd won the ball and they used Jones to Springboard through the corridor and set up McKay....would they use the same footage to say Lipinski cheated and got burnt?? Yep he took a gamble...good teams get away with it.... we're not a good team

It was not a gamble. It was a dumb footballer playing stupid football, as has been the case with him for 4 years.

 

[Arr0w]

It was not a gamble. It was a dumb footballer playing stupid football, as has been the case with him for 4 years.

Yeah, he has been shocking in every game for 4 years

 

[mediumsizered]

It was very interesting watching, On the couch, the footage they showed of Liam Jones was pretty bad, I have been quite critical of Teague and assistant coaches, but seeing that particular vision, I don’t think that’s a directive by the coaching staff, I know it’s one piece of vision but it seems like a regular occurrence with Jones.

The vision of Doc was disappointing too.

Jones has a stack of ability, but very little football smarts. The Opposition are starting to exploit this hence him regularly having multiple goals kicked on him now.

 

[Bluey19]

Yeah, he has been shocking in every game for 4 years

I never said that. He has talent, just doesn’t have much football IQ. We have the ball movers in defence. We need a full back or centre half back to lock down and not run up off his man like a headless chook.

Go watch a game, focus on Jones and look how silly he looks when he leaves his man on his own by 35 metres, embarrassing.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I never said that. He has talent, just doesn’t have much football IQ. We have the ball movers in defence. We need a full back or centre half back to lock down and not run up off his man like a headless chook.

Go watch a game, focus on Jones and look how silly he looks when he leaves his man on his own by 35 metres, embarrassing.

He is clearly playing under instruction to back himself. He is 2nd in the league in intercept marks in D50. A system based defensive effort would cover many of these “loose moment” you pin your argument on.

 

[Arr0w]

I never said that. He has talent, just doesn’t have much football IQ. We have the ball movers in defence. We need a full back or centre half back to lock down and not run up off his man like a headless chook.

Go watch a game, focus on Jones and look how silly he looks when he leaves his man on his own by 35 metres, embarrassing.

You mean playing more attacking when we went behind?

 

[Bluey19]

You mean playing more attacking when we went behind?

Jones wouldn’t play any different if we are behind or in front. It’s happened for years.

 

[Gavstar]

You mean playing more attacking when we went behind?

Looking at Doc’s communication today he’s basically saying we lost because we stopped scoring rather than we lost due to lack of defence. We slowed down when we should have kept the speed up.

Tempo footy = Bad

Not the first time I’ve been surprised by what the leaders think is going wrong this year. They are in a bubble and common sense is not penetrating it, hoping Worsfold can bring some sense into these strategic discussions!

 

[Santo the king]

Looking at Doc’s communication today he’s basically saying we lost because we stopped scoring rather than we lost due to lack of defence. We slowed down when we should have kept the speed up.

Tempo footy = Bad

Not the first time I’ve been surprised by what the leaders think is going wrong this year. They are in a bubble and common sense is not penetrating it, hoping Worsfold can bring some sense into these strategic discussions!

Teague said the same at the press conference.

 

[Santo the king]

Jones wouldn’t play any different if we are behind or in front. It’s happened for years.

One incident in isolation is not very meaningful.

However, Healy's point was there is a time to be agressive and a time to be defensive and we seem to play only in one mode.

As a general observation Jones is not blessed with the best footy IQ and often found mis-reading the play, however he is not alone out there. Others should be standing up, seeing what is happening and making the adjustments. The best teams self correct in real time, without the need to have a runner/coach tell them. Lack of leadership is a contributing factor too.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Looking at Doc’s communication today he’s basically saying we lost because we stopped scoring rather than we lost due to lack of defence. We slowed down when we should have kept the speed up.

Tempo footy = Bad

Not the first time I’ve been surprised by what the leaders think is going wrong this year. They are in a bubble and common sense is not penetrating it, hoping Worsfold can bring some sense into these strategic discussions!

Yeah Teague’s presser was the same 'we let them score when we take speed out of the ball, we need speed in the ball more' not sure I like the messaging

 

[FRUMPY]

Yeah, he has been shocking in every game for 4 years

No-one complains when he leaves his man and intercepts with a brilliant mark....[emoji848]

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