Brant
Brownlow Medallist
Lacked talent & were only made to look good by the players around them...The 2013-2015 players were an accident of history according to bigfooty
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Who also lacked talent?
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Lacked talent & were only made to look good by the players around them...The 2013-2015 players were an accident of history according to bigfooty
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Don't forget the 7 defenders that never played on anyone. I've had people tell me that Lake, Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson, Birchall, and Stratton only looked good because they never play on anyone and are always just loose man.Lacked talent & were only made to look good by the players around them...
Who also lacked talent?
Nah Lake carried them as we rorted Free Agency by trading for him.Don't forget the 7 defenders that never played on anyone. I've had people tell me that Lake, Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson, Birchall, and Stratton only looked good because they never play on anyone and are always just loose man.
11. By the time Rohanis kicking for goal guthrie and selwood have reached the fifty arc. Had Mira stuck his tackle on Rohan, the two geelong mids would have been options as the cats would have outnumbered us by two. Notice also that 4 hawthorn players form a loose ring around Rohan and all the cats are outside our players.
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This sequence highlights how hard we are working. We chase the ball or the opponent with the ball like rabid dogs. Time and time again in the sequence we out number our opponent on the inside with a huge risk that if it gets out the ball will be taken away quickly. The likely outcome if we win it is that we will have to hack it forward as all out team mates are within 2m of the ball and have opponents on their outside ready to close their space and prevent a clean takeaway. In this sequence there are six times our players go to ground, 4 of them are centre square mids. Geelong have one player go to ground (Stanley). When you are inside and your opponent is outside of you, it doesn't;t take much to nudge you to ground. Meanwhile we have absolutely busted our butts to get the ball while Guthrie barely moved, Kelly barely moved, Selwood didn't move until the handball came out. And as we are so ball focused, like rabid dogs, we allow our opponents to jog forward and get 20m clear of us leaving us out of the contest.
So while it looks like they are faster and fitter because they seem to have more players everywhere, its really because we play a stupid style of football in the centre and over committed numbers to the ball. We probably do this in part because we are terrible at tackling so out of fear of allowing easy takeaways we rush in to help and...allow easy takeaways. This all chews up a mountain of energy while our opponents don't work as hard and have a better chance of hurting us from a stoppage even if we win roughly half of them (which is an improvement on recent weeks). IF you go back to 2016, the bulldogs knocked us off be drawing in the gang tacklers and then throwing it out to a free man. As soon as you commit 2 players to a tackle you cannot let the ball out as your opponent has an extra on the outside. This happened time and time again in this game at stoppages and in general play. We throw numbers at the ball and then even when we win it, all our team mates are too close and we have to dink it back and forth or hack it forward. This absolutely has to change as it is killing us (except against Adelaide. It works great against them).
We did win the clearances by 1 but ours were generally a lower standard of clearance apart from Worpel or omeara being brilliant and bursting away.*defensive tactic* we've had this same tactic (chasing and harassing the ball carrier) for a long time, but when Hodge, Mitchell ect were there they held such a high standard(for tackling) that they demanded the team trust the individual to pressure or lay the tackle, these days our tackling has fallen off and we have too many outside players who are known for poor tackling efforts, in this weeks team we had Smith, Scully, Morrison, Henderson, Impey, Wingard, Nash, Scrimshaw and Breust all outside players and mostly poor tacklers if they lay a meaningful tackle at all in a game.
*attacking tactic* we rely on turn overs for most of our scoring shots, have so for years, and so on the back of poor team work when it comes to tackling and our team defense our attack and turn over for an easy mark in the forw 50 or run into open goal is drying up.
as for clearances we finished +1 in clearances and -11 on tackles
our spread is a problem, we clump up and we dont have a Hodge + other generals telling everyone to spread out and cover flanks and to trust in one another to make the tackle or win the ball ect, we also are playing too many outside players and this means less tackles and less contested possession which can be good if you play a high fitness game plan, which we have had the luxury of in the past with the best fitness trainer in the AFL for over 20 years(14 at the Hawks), but maybe not so much now?.
as for our midfield, i liked the couple of times Wingard was in there, but mostly its Worpel and JOM doing the business, Poppy had a couple good plays as well, Cousins had a poor game, Howe did some tough and defensive things but we could have better players through there, missing Shiels and Mitchell is hurting us.
Yes. It is the memory of the final against the dogs that haunts me most. We rush in to gang tackle. Dogs throw the ball out and then their extra on the outside runs away.Great work Brishawk.
At game it was clear as day that we regularly had players at the contest, and Geelong stayed out a lot more, pushing the ball out anyway they could. Once it got out, we were cooked.
We had this problem a lot in 2016 too.
Annoyingly we have more outside run than we’ve probably ever had in smith, Henderson, Scully and Morrison, but rarely win it to get it out to them.
this is where the loss of Mitchell really hurting us. Clean clearance winner against scrappy ones we are getting now.
Also getting annoyed we regularly fly 3 up, leaving no one down to crumb
Yep. When you immediately hang tackle the player before they have had prior opportunity it gives the umpire an easy out to ball out. If the ball spills it’s an easy out for the umpire to say it was knocked out by the tackle. If you and your opponent are on the ground it’s an easy out for the umpire to call a ball up. If you are on the ground and your opponent keeps his feet, it’s easy for the umpire to penalise you. If you win the ball in tight and are surrounded by team mates, you give up your prior opportunity just getting around them so it’s easy for the umpire to pay holding the ball against you.Brilliant, Brishawk
The other issue with our throwing numbers at the ball & tackling like this is the lack of reward for effort. Holding the ball (or illegal disposal) used to be a thing, but getting one paid these days is as likely as seeing Perkins suspended for an elbow to the back.
Even when our rabid-dog attack plan works, it rarely gets rewarded.
Yep. When you immediately hang tackle the player before they have had prior opportunity it gives the umpire an easy out to ball out. If the ball spills it’s an easy out for the umpire to say it was knocked out by the tackle. If you and your opponent are on the ground it’s an easy out for the umpire to call a ball up. If you are on the ground and your opponent keeps his feet, it’s easy for the umpire to penalise you. If you win the ball in tight and are surrounded by team mates, you give up your prior opportunity just getting around them so it’s easy for the umpire to pay holding the ball against you.
I’m hoping Sam Mitchell can get this lot working better together. No doubt inexperience and lack of games together hurts us. I’m sure if Mitchell was playing we would be better at holding our shape as we would know Mitchell can win it on his own.100% agree with everything you've said in this analysis mate, but for mine it isn't a huge reflection of game plan or what we WANT to be doing, it's a reflection of who we're missing from the line up at present moment.
It was more obvious in that game because a lot of our defensive set up and communication would be from pointing and talking by Stratton and Frawley, both of whom were out. If you want to see a similar thing, have a look at 2017 with our defensive unit with and without Grant Birchall. Night and day.
As for the midfield, this is what is stopping Cousins from being a best 22 mainstay. He plays the ball on its merits but isn't able to juggle accountability for an opponent with attack, meaning he gets caught out of position quite a lot. Again, who we're missing. Shiels and Burgers are both leaders who direct players that were out of the lineup.
I'm just hoping we get some timber back sooner because the loss of leadership is really hurting us across the board.
It's the midfield version of all the defenders going up to spoil and getting in each other's way.I’m hoping Sam Mitchell can get this lot working better together. No doubt inexperience and lack of games together hurts us. I’m sure if Mitchell was playing we would be better at holding our shape as we would know Mitchell can win it on his own.
Strangely enough I look at our draw ahead and the even nature of not just the top of the ladder but also the bottom. Mitchell breaking his leg has made 2019 a development year. I love what Clarko is doing with the youngsters. Yesterday we won the clearances by 1 and generally thought we made a few mistakes that cost us goals both before quarter time and half time.
That being said O'meara and Sicily are serious players. Sicily kept Hawkins to 1.2 and had 25 himself. O'Meara and Worpel were in and under all day. Howe turned it over a bit but contested strongly in the midfield. Scrimshaw didnt have his best day but I think it's important to remember yesterday was his 9th AFL game. Hardwick was solid as always and Impey gives us great pace from the back half. Cousins didnt have a great day yesterday and Morrison was quiet again but both players are very late picks in the draft or rookies and may take more time or may not make it and I think thats okay as well. Scully in game 3 from his come back is only going to get better and old man Henderson is winning our bnf at the moment.
Mitch Lewis was really good in his 3rd game. He brought the ball to ground and created opportunities for the smalls.
Nash was disappointing again but he's still learning. I think he should be learning at the lower level but I can see why we are playing him as the cupboard is a bit bare so why not throw him in the deep end and maybe he gets to 25 games and it clicks.
Brand was solid in the backline and Mirra wasn't disgraced.
Gunston and Breust didnt have their best days and Smith was better yesterday than he's probably been so far this year.
My point is that we are in transition. The names that are playing well are not premiership stars from 2015 or before. I think we are a chance to have a tough couple of months but the idea of putting a top 7 pick, Tom Mitchell, Maybe Coniglio and a pick 25 into this side when hopefully most of the guys that played yesterday have another 17 games behind them is exciting.
2020 team which I know will still have one or two of Frawley, Puopolo, Rough, Burgoyne, Schoenmakers, Ceglar, Birchall, O'Brien, Schoenamkers but the team below is pretty young. Those 9 players represent some serious spending money for the Hawks to chase another free agent even if we are able to land Coniglio. There are some holes but we are not in for a 5 year rebuild in fact I think we are 2 years into our rebuild right now. The worry in 2017 was we didnt have any kids to play. They are all getting games now and if we can recruit well we will be back playing finals and hopefully winning finals in the next 2 years. I am sure some of these players people will disagree with but its more of a general illustration that we are going okay.
B Scrimshaw (21) Brand (26) Hardwick (23)
HB Stratton (31) Sicily (25) Impey (25)
C Scully (29) Worpel (21) O'meara (26)
HF Breust (29) Gunston (28) Henderson (31)
F Moore Lewis (22) Wingard (27)
R Mcevoy (30) Mitchell (26) Coniglio (26)
I/C Smith (31) Shiels (29) Howe (24) Ross (20)
You need to setup to give yourself the best chance of winning the clearance and/or negating the the oppositions clearance. What I’m suggesting is we are doing neither and it’s not just the bounce of the ball. This pattern was consistent through the match and wasn’t just a feature of stoppages. We get sucked in too close to the ball and can’t easily clear it.You make some pretty good points.
The point about losing Tom Mitchell is pretty pertinent: when your Number 1 midfielder and clearance player goes down before the season starts then other, less experienced players have to step up very quickly, and that is pretty difficult.
This is exacerbated when you lose other experienced midfielders.
When you look at our game style, I don't think you get the full picture by looking at a few examples. I've seen David King pick out a few highlights to show why team X is so bad, when he could have easily analysed them more carefully. The point is that our game has many, many random moments, caused by the bounce of the ball. This happens in many situation:
1. The umpire bouncing it in the centre;
2. Multiple players flying for marks;
3. The ball bouncing loose in open play.
You can set up to try allow for these situations, but each time it depends on how the ball comes down. For example, you can have your player dearly in the lead to collect a loose ball, when it bounces the wrong way and the opponent takes it.
You can argue that, if the ball bounces the right way, our set up is perfect, but footy is never that simple.
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I’m hoping Sam Mitchell can get this lot working better together. No doubt inexperience and lack of games together hurts us. I’m sure if Mitchell was playing we would be better at holding our shape as we would know Mitchell can win it on his own.
It's the midfield version of all the defenders going up to spoil and getting in each other's way.
The trust isn't there yet
Supposedly setting a deadline in Birchall sets you up for dissapointmentWe need a better midfield and more direct/incisive rebound from D50 - someone like Guerra, or the guy coming back... after the bye!
I think it’s part inexperience, part lack of games together as a group (not knowing how each other play) and part confidence in your team mates. All three are related of course. We all want to help the team win and we all throw ourselves into the contest. We all want to be an option to receive the ball. But we are all doing the same thing. Not enough cool heads trusting our team mates and being an outlet. It’s fixable and I don’t think it is the game plan to have all our numbers committed to the ball.Great read, I’m not sure how to be optimistic about Clarkson persisting with this game plan though...
What we do really well despite our inexperience is zone defence. We force the long kick regularly. We don’t concede a lot of goals from structured play. Just need to refine our play in broken play and stoppages. It’s all fixable.Spot on. To be fair, we haven't been the best performing midfield in the competition, but if you take losses in to consideration we're holding our shape admirably well. This is something we should be able to do without Mitchell too, but I doubt the club would have been preparing for losing Burgoyne and Shiels on top of our already considerable outs.
It's not for me to rag on players typically, but in this game it was obvious that though Cousins is a good production footballer, he just doesn't excel in a 3 dimensional sport. He runs in relatively straight lines, doesn't have the best of instincts and only knows forward.
O'Meara and Worpel are already instinctually that type of player, but they can do other things and overcome it because they're better footballers than Cousins. We really need a player who will get the ball and be able to put it to best position, which is something that Mitchell's injury has taken away from us and unfortunately something Shiels and Burgoyne are both able to do.
It's a positive for me that we haven't embarrassed ourselves yet. There are a lot of teams this year that have had embarrassing losses, but we've managed to keep ours relatively tight despite the loss of timber which is a positive. We have the fight, and once we have a more stable team we'll be in with a shot against anyone.
Or forwards all going up for the same mark and leaving no one to crumb, or the opposite.
Something we're doing a bit of on all lines at the moment. With the quality we have, as soon as these yips get sorted out and our team has a bit more stability, we should be damaging across the board.