Its a sad state of where geelong is at. Dont blame the game. Its geelong.
Motlop, caddy, menzel, chapman and steve johnson. All similar sort of players and all treated like pieces of sh*** by the current geelong administration.
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The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state our game is in
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Motlop, caddy, menzel, chapman and steve johnson. All similar sort of players and all treated like pieces of sh*** by the current geelong administration.
Thats rubbish. It was a weakness but rubbish to say he applies zero defensive pressure. Had our two best tackles in our final. Literally the two best by any geelong player.
- Oct 8, 2009
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He was a legitimate liability in their final. He doesn’t chase, didn’t lead and was relying purely on the ball coming in quick off a turnover and therefore being in an advantageous position.
Sorry but I just don’t agree at all with this having to do with the state of the game. His injuries have made him a very one dimensional player. He can take marks and kick goals but if you put proper time into him he can be shut out of a game rather easily. He isn’t going to work hard to beat his man so he’s basically a passenger out there.
He basically plays like a lazy full forward except he doesn’t have the height or weight to be a constant problem. He’s flawed like numerous other footballers who get the chop. Don’t see anyone crying when some backmen gets the chop because he can’t intercept mark.
I agree that he’s talented but talent only gets you so far in any sport. Same with goals. Unless you’re kicking big bags a couple of goals a game barely has an impact compared to what other more rounded players can do.
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Topkent
Confirmed ITK Drafting King
The way the forwards used to mark infront of their eyes is gone. Fevola embarrasses every current one except Maybe Kennedy.
The way forwards could kick a drip punt 60m is gone. Can't think of many who have been able to in the last 10 years
Key forwards don't even crash packs anymore, they would rather wait for the fall of the ball than hit the pack at full speed.
Don't think this is just because he left Melbourne but I always looked at Hogan as an example, his deep inside 50 work was poor and yet people were talking about him like he was the next Carey. His all around football skills were awesome for a big man but as an actual key forward it looked like he hadn't trained as a key forward since he was drafted.
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- Apr 21, 2015
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Menzel delisted. Wtf I feel like I know nothing about football
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People really get excited by numbers, I've only seen a few games where he was fun to watch. You can be talented and a bad player at the same time, he did absolutely nothing but ignore his teammates and have a crack for goal every time, no goal assists, no tackles, no team stuff, no overhead mark anymore, no acceleration making something happen for nothing. And his one thing in his favour goals, when I watched he'd miss every crucial one. Who was worried about Menzel when the game was on the line?
Not even that harsh on him. great effort to come back from like 4 ACL injuries, but he is cooked. Some people have been calling him a SF for years and he's nearly 190cm tall w/ no pressure, I think that says a lot that he's just so anonymous people assume he's a SF.
Effectively useless players being shunted off to crap teams says nothing about the league. No amount of rule changes will make Menzel a good player.
Not even that harsh on him. great effort to come back from like 4 ACL injuries, but he is cooked. Some people have been calling him a SF for years and he's nearly 190cm tall w/ no pressure, I think that says a lot that he's just so anonymous people assume he's a SF.
Effectively useless players being shunted off to crap teams says nothing about the league. No amount of rule changes will make Menzel a good player.
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Exactly. Seriously question if half of Bigfooty has watched the bloke. He kicks 2 goals a game. Okay that’s 12 points on the scoreboard but what else does he offer? He’s not going to lead up
the ground a heap and win the ball and he’s not going to take a heap of marks inside 50. He was absolutely terrible in their final because of how little he offers outside of goals.
LongPause
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Would be even worse if a guy with that injury record was signed for say, a two year contract costing a list spot and money with no guarantee on how his health holds up. This was purely a business decision, not based on his skills but rather his deficiencies and limitations.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's more to being a good footballer than kicking goals. Averaging 2 goals a game but not doing much else isn't good enough. I wasn't surprised at all to see him delisted because I was wondering during the year how he gets a game.
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Anyone who thinks there isn’t anything wrong with the modern game needs to look at Kayne Turner entrenched in his side’s best 22 and Menzel delisted without a contract.
Thank god they are tweaking the rules next season
Thank god they are tweaking the rules next season
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What a ridiculous statement.Anyone who thinks there isn’t anything wrong with the modern game needs to look at Kayne Turner entrenched in his side’s best 22 and Menzel delisted without a contract.
Thank god they are tweaking the rules next season
Menzel has been at the Cats for ages now, played a number of games the last few seasons and the Cats have come up short when it matters. Menzel in particular was one of their worst players in their final. They've decided to move in a different direction and give someone else a crack. They're a team rightly or wrongly vying for a flag. They also cannot trust Menzel's body.
Turner is playing on a team that's sort of in no man's land and therefore doesn't have as many tough list management decisions to make.
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There is more to being a good footballer than just applying pressure, however plenty of players have a career built around that skill alone.
I think he asked for a trade a few years back and the club gave up on him ever since. After all the rehab they were probably annoyed. I thought he was only on a 250k salary, and still delisted. Must've pissed the club off for sure.
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Didn’t both teams finish next to each other on the ladder this season? Maybe you should hold back from commenting if you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Unlike Carlton, North aren’t tanking and loading up on draft picks for a delusional attempt at success. They have a strong culture and would certainly be aiming to finish top 4 each year. Their list management decisions are just as tough as the best sides, as shown by their decision to dump club legend Brent Harvey a few years ago.
Geelong selected Menzel whenever he was available. He was walk-up best 22 and repaid the Cats with ~2 goals each game. Why couldn’t he be cheap depth on the minimum wage worst case?
No they don't.
What happened with his injection - anything specific - or was it just that his form went south following a particular injection, and his lack of form was consequently put down to this injection? Just curious.
I can see the point of this thread but I think there's a couple of important things to consider.
1. Geelong factors:
The cats are trying to win and rebuild at the same time and it's a really difficult balance. In some ways they have to bring in Dahlhaus and probably have to gamble on Rohan too, but that means just from list balance perspective Menzel is vulnerable.
They also have to structure a forward line and player number 1 in that structure is going to be Hawkins. They need a back up ruck/forward playing because they probably can't do it all with one ruck and that means big Esava. Neither of those 2 big guys are going to be well served on searching leads to the wing all game, they'll both spend time deep. Then there's Dangerfield who will be 29 next season and put his body through a lot, the best way to prolong his career well in the 30's is with a lot of time forward. That's 3 inside 50 marking options who offer more from an attacking and team balance perspective than Menzel even without factoring in defensive work. So can Menzel play half forward or midfield, if the answer is no then he's ageing declining depth.
2. Menzel factors:
Ok so he can't defend. But why? Because he's lazy as hell - probably not. Because his body just isn't good at it - more likely. So if he can't defend maybe that's a sign that he really can't be that potent of an attacking force any more either. He's down 4 disposals, 1 mark and 1 tackle since 2016, so even if he's 27 his body might be slowing and he might be the equivalent of a 30+ player.
For all the talk of the 2 goals a game he's also at 11 touches a game and on the way down. Even if he was an average defensive player at what stage does a team say well we can use other players closer to goal (see above) who will find those 2 goals if played there and will contribute more than 11 touches.
I hope a team takes a chance on Menzel, he still has more than enough talent to be on a list. But just blaming the way the game is played and the defensive expectations is lazy. He's a guy who's useful in a certain role and for the Cats it's no longer needed.
1. Geelong factors:
The cats are trying to win and rebuild at the same time and it's a really difficult balance. In some ways they have to bring in Dahlhaus and probably have to gamble on Rohan too, but that means just from list balance perspective Menzel is vulnerable.
They also have to structure a forward line and player number 1 in that structure is going to be Hawkins. They need a back up ruck/forward playing because they probably can't do it all with one ruck and that means big Esava. Neither of those 2 big guys are going to be well served on searching leads to the wing all game, they'll both spend time deep. Then there's Dangerfield who will be 29 next season and put his body through a lot, the best way to prolong his career well in the 30's is with a lot of time forward. That's 3 inside 50 marking options who offer more from an attacking and team balance perspective than Menzel even without factoring in defensive work. So can Menzel play half forward or midfield, if the answer is no then he's ageing declining depth.
2. Menzel factors:
Ok so he can't defend. But why? Because he's lazy as hell - probably not. Because his body just isn't good at it - more likely. So if he can't defend maybe that's a sign that he really can't be that potent of an attacking force any more either. He's down 4 disposals, 1 mark and 1 tackle since 2016, so even if he's 27 his body might be slowing and he might be the equivalent of a 30+ player.
For all the talk of the 2 goals a game he's also at 11 touches a game and on the way down. Even if he was an average defensive player at what stage does a team say well we can use other players closer to goal (see above) who will find those 2 goals if played there and will contribute more than 11 touches.
I hope a team takes a chance on Menzel, he still has more than enough talent to be on a list. But just blaming the way the game is played and the defensive expectations is lazy. He's a guy who's useful in a certain role and for the Cats it's no longer needed.
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Kayne Turner, Zac Langdon, Dan Butler to name a few.
These guys barely hit the scoreboard and barely even touch the ball, but their “pressure” is enough to be best 22 in 2018. It’s sad.
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Man0gwaR74
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I'm really disappointed with this delisting for a number of reasons but 2 of the main ones being that Geelong signed Chris Scott and Cam Guthrie to long term contracts just recently! It shows the culture of fail that the Cats are supporting!
Admittedly, Dan Menzel's lack of pace to get himself into the contest is probably why he has lost his value at AFL level but he's been made the scapegoat of a team that has not been able to manufacture scoring opportunities when going forward. I put it on Chris Scott for his team not being able to construct goals!
When the ball is presented to Menzel's advantage, he has done well but he has lacked a presence when the Cats needed someone to make an impact up forward. The Cats ball movement into F50 had been disappointing all season and if it was to get the ball to Menzel's advantage more often then he would have scored more goals!
Admittedly, Dan Menzel's lack of pace to get himself into the contest is probably why he has lost his value at AFL level but he's been made the scapegoat of a team that has not been able to manufacture scoring opportunities when going forward. I put it on Chris Scott for his team not being able to construct goals!
When the ball is presented to Menzel's advantage, he has done well but he has lacked a presence when the Cats needed someone to make an impact up forward. The Cats ball movement into F50 had been disappointing all season and if it was to get the ball to Menzel's advantage more often then he would have scored more goals!
- Oct 8, 2009
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Geelong finished 8th in a year where it was fairly even and a handful of games were the difference between top 4 and spots 5-8. They'd just come off back to back prelim losses. Whether they were delusional or not this year they were aiming for a flag. Things went wrong and they hardly made the 8.
North missed the 8, finished toward the bottom last year and certainly is in a different spot to Geelong. Two sides in completely different situations.
No idea what the **** Carlton have to do with anything you peanut.
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One had injuries, the other got Carltonized
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Nope. Troy was lazy just like his brother and going to Adelaide did nothing to change his career. Never developed the tank to be a midfielder and like Daniel wasn't capable of much more than kicking goals.
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