Mega Thread The Mark Neeld Mega-Thread

[ausbacker]

Choosing a quality coach isn't an exact science, as a Richmond supporter you'd understand that only too well. Dean Bailey wasn't the man to take Melbourne forward, not least due to his involvement in the tanking saga. I saw him as a "youth development" specialist but hardly the kind of bloke you'd want coaching an experienced side in a prelim for example.

They did the right thing replacing him but have ended up with someone who hasn't worked out. It's a very common tale in footy.
For all we know Neeld might well have proven himself a good coach at a different club in different circumstances. He might've done alright taking over from Bomber Thompson at Geelong or at Freo replacing Harvey. I think we've got to cut the bloke some slack because he's had a bloody tough job and he's been under the pump right from the word go.

I find that an increasingly difficult proposition to believe. Mark Neeld is coaching the Melbourne Football Club to a record worse than that of Peter Rohde during his Western Bulldogs tenure. That's an esteemed group proudly sponsored by everyone's favourite former Bear Norm Dare.

 

[forwardflanker]

I would have Neeld in a second back at Collingwood. People bagging him about sacking Maloney and Rivers should consider why it came to that. What kind of example is set when your senior players are either unwilling to chase (Maloney) or do the hard stuff (Rivers). Whilst the players he recruited in may not be world beaters they do subscribe to and have experienced the team mentality required to have success in this competition. Dawes strength is his work ethic, especially chasing and tackling. Burns has played in multiple premierships for Geelong who are the competition benchmark. The fact that Neeld was forced to bring these big club rejects in is a sad indictment on the lack of leadership coming from Melbourne's senior players.

I'd guess that 80% of the damage was done before Neeld even got to Melbourne and imo sacking him now is not going to achieve anything, I guarantee that anyone who coaches this list will do as poorly if not poorer than what Neeld has done. Fwiw I think/hope the people running Melbourne see this and that Neeld coaches into next year.

 

[LeverPuller]

I find that an increasingly difficult proposition to believe. Mark Neeld is coaching the Melbourne Football Club to a record worse than that of Peter Rohde during his Western Bulldogs tenure. That's an esteemed group proudly sponsored by everyone's favourite former Bear Norm Dare.

Of coaches that coached more than 20 games he is the 2nd-worst since 1987; only Buckenara is worse.

By comparison, Dean Bailey is the 10th-worst in that group*.

*For the record, Ron Barassi falls in between Bailey and Neeld but I did not include him due to his record coaching before 1987.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Why hasn't Alan Richardson ever gotten a crack? We've seen Hinkley turn it on.

No idea but he should be considered for the job the players and Neeld just are not on the same wave-length

 

[Forward Press]

I would have Neeld in a second back at Collingwood. People bagging him about sacking Maloney and Rivers should consider why it came to that. What kind of example is set when your senior players are either unwilling to chase (Maloney) or do the hard stuff (Rivers). Whilst the players he recruited in may not be world beaters they do subscribe to and have experienced the team mentality required to have success in this competition. Dawes strength is his work ethic, especially chasing and tackling. Burns has played in multiple premierships for Geelong who are the competition benchmark. The fact that Neeld was forced to bring these big club rejects in is a sad indictment on the lack of leadership coming from Melbourne's senior players.

Moloney and Rivers are doing pretty okay so far at their respective clubs. There's a reason Dawes and Byrnes were also allowed to go without much fanfare by their premiership-winning clubs. Rodan and Pedersen - well the less said the better. They were in desperate need of senior players - but were they the answer?

I'd suggest it's more an issue with the club as a whole rather than individual players. Something has gone terribly wrong in the football department somewhere and to be honest I don't know what Melbourne can do now to solve it. It has to be a long-term process and sacking Neeld would only do so much.

 

[daniel_4tw]

I honestly think Craig is one of the main reasons Melbourne are doing poorly. The game had well and truly passed him when Adelaide gave him the boot.

Also everyone saying Neeld was given a terrible list. Go look at Bailey's last year. Melbourne were pushing for the 8 and beat quite a few teams by 50+. Yes, the Geelong game was bad, but no worse than what they have been dishing up on a weekly basis this year.

 

[masai]

Have the Demons got the mullah to pay out the coaches contract ?.

Yes they have traded away important players, but the players all need a rocket. If you lose and give 100%, maybe your coach needs to take the blame (game plan, players out of position etc). If the players give B all effort, players should take the blame.

If I had my way, I'd put their contracts on performance base. This week, most would get about 10% of their weekly pay.

Saw the CEO interviewed today, geez he signalled that the administration set up at the Demons is weird!!. He is going to tackle that first.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Of coaches that coached more than 20 games he is the 2nd-worst since 1987; only Buckenara is worse.

By comparison, Dean Bailey is the 10th-worst in that group*.

*For the record, Ron Barassi falls in between Bailey and Neeld but I did not include him due to his record coaching before 1987.

Should give you some idea how poor the Swans were 91-94, however despite Barassi's W/L record with us he will be forever remembered as the key to turning a rabble into a serious football side.

 

[LeverPuller]

Have the Demons got the mullah to pay out the coaches contract ?.

Yes they have traded away important players, but the players all need a rocket. If you lose and give 100%, maybe your coach needs to take the blame (game plan, players out of position etc). If the players give B all effort, players should take the blame.

If I had my way, I'd put their contracts on performance base. This week, most would get about 10% of their weekly pay.

Saw the CEO interviewed today, geez he signalled that the administration set up at the Demons is weird!!. He is going to tackle that first.

First thought was Schwab. His admin after all; what better way to wield influence than to have everyone report to you separately?

 

[masai]

First thought was Schwab. His admin after all; what better way to wield influence than to have everyone report to you separately?

Oh yes I forgot about Mr Schwab !!!!.

Well we did warn you !!!.

Anyway the new CEO looks like he is prepared to crack some eggs to get the Demons back upright. Somethink like too many chiefs ......

 

[West Coast Weasel]

Sack Neeld for who??? The general administration of the club needs to be overhauled, because as they currently stand the Demons are a career ending organisation. A future coach would be crazy to take up the job, hell Neeld was highly regarded during his time at Collingwood after all. Persist with Neeld if they must, but for the love of God clear out the rot in the admin department first, otherwise the 'rebuilding the rebuild' will turn into some never-ending nightmare.

 

[masai]

, hell Neeld was highly regarded during his time at Collingwood after all.

I can see where you are coming from, but McKenna & Watters were from that same stable.

 

[AlibiMonday]

Should give you some idea how poor the Swans were 91-94, however despite Barassi's W/L record with us he will be forever remembered as the key to turning a rabble into a serious football side.

As a long term South/Sydney supporter, I can only empathise with Demons supporters. This is exactly how our club felt 12 months into Buckenara's reign - it was dispiriting with absolutely no hope anywhere. We were devoid of leadership, talent and funds. We weren't a disfunctional team, but a disfunctional club. If you can remember the discussion at the time, it was touch and go whether Sydney would still exist.

But three things happened all at once and the results started to turn. A new chairman, Richard Colless, an experienced coach, Ron Barassi and a new captain, Paul Kelly. Even then, we still had to hook Roos and Lockett before we became competitive, which is the equivalent of grabbing both Franklin and Hodge in today's terms.

There is hope, but you need to cut out the rot at all levels simultaneously. Schwab's management is looking more and more disastrous each week, while Neeld's the wrong guy. McClardy's not even close to being experienced enough for a job this big.

Only a Roos or Matthews will do in my opinion. They need someone who knows how to best to structure football departments with the clout to put in their own people. Inexperienced coaches get given what they've got (or dictated personnel even with the best of intentions).

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I honestly think Craig is one of the main reasons Melbourne are doing poorly. The game had well and truly passed him when Adelaide gave him the boot.

Also everyone saying Neeld was given a terrible list. Go look at Bailey's last year. Melbourne were pushing for the 8 and beat quite a few teams by 50+. Yes, the Geelong game was bad, but no worse than what they have been dishing up on a weekly basis this year.

Say what you like about Craig but he had a list of well-drilled, disciplined players. He doesn't have this at Melbourne.

Honestly if Melbourne sacked Neeld and promoted Neil Craig, I wouldn't think that was a bad move. They won't be any worse off than they are under the Mark 'twitchy' Neeld. His pressers are always bloody awful too. I'd hate to be a Dee's supporter. The on field performance is bad enough and then you have to suffer through Neeld's rambling and non-explanation.

 

[B 52]

I think Gary Aryes is the man Melbourne need to get to coach them.Very underated coach imo

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think Gary Aryes is the man Melbourne need to get to coach them.Very underated coach imo

If it came down to Neil Craig or Gary Ayres, I'd probably go with Craig, main reason being I think he has a better history of developing a young list. Gary Ayre's was totally backward when it came to developing the younger players when he was at the Crows. The team improved significantly under Craig when Ayres was eventually sacked.

 

[LeverPuller]

As a long term South/Sydney supporter, I can only empathise with Demons supporters. This is exactly how our club felt 12 months into Buckenara's reign - it was dispiriting with absolutely no hope anywhere. We were devoid of leadership, talent and funds. We weren't a disfunctional team, but a disfunctional club. If you can remember the discussion at the time, it was touch and go whether Sydney would still exist.

But three things happened all at once and the results started to turn. A new chairman, Richard Colless, an experienced coach, Ron Barassi and a new captain, Paul Kelly. Even then, we still had to hook Roos and Lockett before we became competitive, which is the equivalent of grabbing both Franklin and Hodge in today's terms.

There is hope, but you need to cut out the rot at all levels simultaneously. Schwab's management is looking more and more disastrous each week, while Neeld's the wrong guy. McClardy's not even close to being experienced enough for a job this big.

Only a Roos or Matthews will do in my opinion. They need someone who knows how to best to structure football departments with the clout to put in their own people. Inexperienced coaches get given what they've got (or dictated personnel even with the best of intentions).

You're entirely right. The problem is, noone wants to do it. Roos has spent years potting us and has said this week that he's not interested. Matthews said when he was asked before Neeld was appointed he looked at it and saw a basketcase off-field, and didn't want a part of it. Malthouse is at Carlton. Choco? Perhaps, but whether he can break a club's culture a la Barassi is yet to be seen.

Everyone is bitching about the problem but noone wants to do anything about it, and that really troubles me.

The thing with RDB was he was able to see past the loyalty thing. Barass understands things have to be done "for the good of the game". It's why he came out and said if Scully went to the Giants he'd be okay with it despite his Melbourne ties, for he knew it was for the good of the game.

People don't do that now. They're all about legacy or cash.

 

[CakeEater]

The problem is their assistant coaches aren't really providing much support.

Jade Rawlings and Brian Royal have hardly had awe inspiring coaching careers

Royal- Assistant coach at St Kilda, Melbourne, Bullies and Richmond- all teams which struggled when he was there.
Jade Rawlings- Richmond, Brisbane and Melbourne- Same again, all of them struggled.

Theres not much experience of coaching with teams who have been successful, breeding successful cultures.

 

[AlibiMonday]

You're entirely right. The problem is, noone wants to do it. Roos has spent years potting us and has said this week that he's not interested. Matthews said when he was asked before Neeld was appointed he looked at it and saw a basketcase off-field, and didn't want a part of it. Malthouse is at Carlton. Choco? Perhaps, but whether he can break a club's culture a la Barassi is yet to be seen.

Everyone is bitching about the problem but noone wants to do anything about it, and that really troubles me.

The thing with RDB was he was able to see past the loyalty thing. Barass understands things have to be done "for the good of the game". It's why he came out and said if Scully went to the Giants he'd be okay with it despite his Melbourne ties, for he knew it was for the good of the game.

People don't do that now. They're all about legacy or cash.

I hear you. It's really difficult to know what are the next steps, when everyone's backing away. I do think the AFL needs to help, like what they did with Sydney in the early 90's and help convince the right people to commit.

In hindsight, we were very lucky to get Barassi, Colless, Kelly, Roos and Lockett all to the club within 24 months. High quality leadership experience is so hard to get access to, especially if their are no egos attached. Outside of Roos, that list is pretty much ego-less, which neutered any potentially damaging politics.

 

[Mr Magic]

I was looking at Neeld talk to Frawley and Healy pre-game.

Looked like he had trouble looking them in the eye. Agreed with a little to much and commentary was a little to generic for my liking.

Suggested to me indoors they have major issues which become obvious when the players play on field.

Also noticed Jones body behaviour going through the banner, who I think was captain for the day, the group is fractured now I think.

Looks like a club that is breaking apart with crap bursting through the seems

 

[Mr Magic]

I hear you. It's really difficult to know what are the next steps, when everyone's backing away. I do think the AFL needs to help, like what they did with Sydney in the early 90's and help convince the right people to commit.

In hindsight, we were very lucky to get Barassi, Colless, Kelly, Roos and Lockett all to the club within 24 months. High quality leadership experience is so hard to get access to, especially if their are no egos attached. Outside of Roos, that list is pretty much ego-less, which neutered any potentially damaging politics.

The only reason they went to Swans was AFL HQ expansion money IMO TBH truth be told.

 

[MightyTiger]

They actually need help from the AFL, under Hardwick in our first year we were quite shit as most people know, but at least we shied signs of continual improvement the following year, and the year after that, Neeld has just gone backwards with this list at an alarming rate, the kids aren't being developed and I actually fear for what could happen to the likes of Viney, Toumpas and Hogan, all elite talents who will most likely fail like most of there previous top draft picks.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Just get rid of them. Nobody else in the league would care if they were de-registered.

Ridiculous comment. Melbourne as the original club, with a long and proud history are a vital part of the AFL. Granted the club is toxic at the moment and Neelds position is untenable, but to call for the extinction of another club, shows no football knowledge, history, or common sense.

 

[Achilles Heel]

So why do your supporters always say that when the Tigers start making the finals, you're going to fill the MCG? Shouldn't you guys be doing that anyway?

Also, more picks please.

Tanking Again?

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Do you remember what WC were like after the Judge years? When we recruited Woosha as coach, I wasn't sure if he was the right person. But after, I think, our first 5 games under him, we won probably only 2, but the attitude change and the confidence that he gave the players was very noticeable and I knew we had made the right decision.

The coach needs to motivate players and make them believe in themselves. Even when they aren't winning. Especially when they aren't winning.

And Hinkley at Port as another great example of what a good coach can bring to a dispirited team