Mega Thread The Mark Neeld Mega-Thread

[forwardflanker]

From my perspective, the problem with richmond was they were just really bad at drafting (TERRY!), whereas Melbourne's problems are they're picking kids with great upside and potential, but for whatever reason they're just going nowhere.

I don't think Melbourne have to address their drafting (which richmond did do), they have to address how they're developing their players and arrest the losing culture.

For mine the whole problem all along has been their horrible senior players. They are actually in a similar position to Footscray the difference being the dogs have a much stronger core of senior leaders who they're building the youth around. Melbourne's were pathetic and Neeld did the right thing by cleaning them out asap imo. The problem was a huge void was left behind which they couldn't fill and the results reflected that. Melbourne still have quite a few good young players but it's going to take them so long to make it because they just have no leadership.

 

[thejester]

+1, noone knows if Neeld can coach because he wasn't given the opportunity. The sad thing about the list he inherited was even when they were trying they were pathetic. I am going to lol at the morons running that club when the side under the new coach cops the same poundings that Neeld had to endure and that multimillion dollar handout money has been for nothing. I suppose though we will all get punished as the AFL will just bail them out again.

In 2011 that 'pathetic' list won 8 games and the year before also won 8, as well as drawing with (and very, very narrowly losing to) the eventual premier in Collingwood. Since then in a season and a half they've won 5, only one of which came against a non-expansion side. They have clearly gotten dramatically worse under Neeld. Yes, he's clearly worked in front of an administration and footy department that was shambolic, but so did Bailey. The painting of Neeld as a martyr is frankly ridiculous. Melbourne's playing group might have been 'cancerous' but the cure has clearly been worse than the disease.

 

[Geddy Lee]

I think Melbourne are finished tbh, someone should just put a bullet in them because they don't deserve to be in the AFL, and the AFL can't afford to carry then like they seem to expect.

First club in Melbourne means nothing when you tank for draft picks then can't even pay the fine so ask for a handout; when your basically insolvent, scapegoat the coach and then can't pay him out so ask for another AFL handout; when nobody goes to matches; and when prominent media personalities and "clubmen" undermine the club saying they want the side to lose so the coach will be sacked.

I wouldn't care much if they weren't in the AFL anymore after what they've dished up the last two years.

I wouldn't care much if you weren't on BigFooty anymore after what you've dished up in the last 9 minutes.

 

[Demonheart]

It had to happen, disastrous to continue as it was. The club now has 3 months to try and convince a bunch of players to stay. First day of our (3rd ) rebuild.

 

[pavilion103]

Neeld must have known the performance enhancing drugs would come back to bite him? Idiot for allowing it in the first place. Deserves to be sacked for it imo.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Feel sorry for Neeld but I guess at least now him and his family won't have to avoid any papers or the media (can only imagine the emotional stress his family would have been put under with all that scrutiny).

 

[Syd]

and they are in a far worse position than we have ever been as a club.. atleast we have proud passionate supporters who stick fat when we are down..

Possibly the only thing Richmond can hang their collective hats on after the past 3 decades.

That and the best Club song in the league.

 

[Major Colvin]

I think Melbourne are finished tbh, someone should just put a bullet in them because they don't deserve to be in the AFL, and the AFL can't afford to carry then like they seem to expect.

First club in Melbourne means nothing when you tank for draft picks then can't even pay the fine so ask for a handout; when your basically insolvent, scapegoat the coach and then can't pay him out so ask for another AFL handout; when nobody goes to matches; and when prominent media personalities and "clubmen" undermine the club saying they want the side to lose and the coach sacked.

I wouldn't care much if they weren't in the AFL anymore after what they've dished up the last two years.

Thread is about Mark Neeld being sacked (totally expected and warranted) not surprisingly its lit up the "OMG Deez wrst club ever they should fold/merge/die1!!" brigade.

Everyone recognises the club is in a dire situation and tough decisions must be made, but when they are made you get instant cries that the club is a knee-jerk/reactionary and "wouldnt care if they folded"...yes, we all know we disgust you and it must be a huge personal imposition when we hand you 4 free points every game.

I too do not see any point in the club continuing in its current fashion - so the only option is change.

 

[Syd]

From my perspective, the problem with richmond was they were just really bad at drafting (TERRY!), whereas Melbourne's problems are they're picking kids with great upside and potential, but for whatever reason they're just going nowhere.

You could start by addressing the success through failure mentality that the tanking engendered.
Cancerous to a Club to build a defeatest culture in the first place.

Add to that the inability of the Board to correctly select \ recruit \ build a proper coaching structure to develop the kids.

So draft quality kids + teach them to lose = FAIL!

I really feel sorry for any player drafted to Melbourne over the past 5 years and indeed, well into the next 5

 

[Catgirl]

A coach can't teach commitment and desire? FMD.

He can try but in the end, it's up to the players to put in the effort. And standing around like witches hats is a fair indicator into the path a lot of your players have decided to take.

You know nothing about the MFC and Mark Neeld - or sporting 'pain' for that matter - and I will not waste my time arguing with holier-than-thou Geelong supporters.

So watching your team get smashed week in and week out isn't painful for you? Alrighty then.

Can't sack the players, bottom line. Albiet the worst will get whats coming to them seasons end.

The team actually had a dip against Collingwood on the weekend. The the structures, skill level continuously kills us - it deflates the players and getting s**t on every weekend is energy sapping. The players aren't good but Neeld's regime has made them worse - individually and as a team. How anyone can deny this ludicrous. The results speak for themselves.

I'm not saying Neeld is a premiership winning coach. I'm just saying the players are moreso to blame for Melbourne's current position than he was. I've yet to see an argument that defies that fact.

That'd be the most outstanding circular argument I've seen in a while - 'these things cannot be coached AS PROVEN by the fact the just-sacked coach didn't make any progress in them.' Or Mark Neeld is just s**t at that part of his job?

I think you've misunderstood my post.

On the topic of what you've said, I think Neeld deserved a bit more time. Did we see any progress from Bomber Thompson at Geelong for a good part of a decade? Barely, and our list was nowhere near as bad on paper as Melbourne's is right now.

All players that played for us in 2007 are testament to the fact that the switch from crap to good only came when the players decided to take their football seriously. I'm pretty sure all Geelong supporters have heard of that infamous "chat" that the players had early in the 2007 season.

 

[forwardflanker]

In 2011 that 'pathetic' list won 8 games and the year before also won 8, as well as drawing with (and very, very narrowly losing to) the eventual premier in Collingwood. Since then in a season and a half they've won 5, only one of which came against a non-expansion side. They have clearly gotten dramatically worse under Neeld. Yes, he's clearly worked in front of an administration and footy department that was shambolic, but so did Bailey. The painting of Neeld as a martyr is frankly ridiculous. Melbourne's playing group might have been 'cancerous' but the cure has clearly been worse than the disease.

Well I wasn't in favor of sacking Bailley either. But Neeld was given a license by the board to overhaul that club and change it's culture which included the unenviable job of shifting all the garbage senior players who were giving them nothing. Their shambolic board committed to him 3 years and I think that would have been a minimum to find improvement given the footy department he had to work with, in the end they terminated him in half that. They once again took the easy way out and are going to have to pay for it in the millions because I guarantee that not even Clarkson or Lyon could get that much more out of that group of players. The courageous decision would have been to honour the contract, they got the guy in after an exhaustive process because they thought he was the best available and now they need to stick with him. Now I will lol when the next coach fails to get anything out of the current group and they realise they could have used their bail out money on more effective measures.

 

[Major Colvin]

For mine the whole problem all along has been their horrible senior players. They are actually in a similar position to Footscray the difference being the dogs have a much stronger core of senior leaders who they're building the youth around. Melbourne's were pathetic and Neeld did the right thing by cleaning them out asap imo. The problem was a huge void was left behind which they couldn't fill and the results reflected that. Melbourne still have quite a few good young players but it's going to take them so long to make it because they just have no leadership.

Kind of contradicted yourself there didnt you? If the senior players so pathetic, surely there would have been no void left to fill at all. The fact is whilst they were not great they were still the best Neeld had at his disposal and he should have used them to that affect rather than making an example of them.

Anyone can come in criticise the culture and take aim at senior players, cull people from the list. But the challenge is then to build your own culture and list. At this he failed and thats what the results reflect.

 

[forwardflanker]

Kind of contradicted yourself there didnt you? If the senior players so pathetic, surely there would have been no void left to fill at all. The fact is whilst they were not great they were still the best Neeld had at his disposal and he should have used them to that affect rather than making an example of them.

Anyone can come in criticise the culture and take aim at senior players, cull people from the list. But the challenge is then to build your own culture and list. At this he failed and thats what the results reflect.

That wasn't a contradiction, they just never had the quality senior players whether listed or not that Footscray had. Neeld was 100% correct to get rid of Maloney who may have a few redeeming features but on a whole does not play for the side imo.

You gave Neeld three years to do this and then terminated him half way through. Do you really think it takes just a season to rebuild the culture of a team. Ask any of the top clubs of the last decade - Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Sydney how long it took to build their gameplan, lists and culture

 

[thejester]

I think you've misunderstood my post.

On the topic of what you've said, I think Neeld deserved a bit more time. Did we see any progress from Bomber Thompson at Geelong for a good part of a decade? Barely, and our list was nowhere near as bad on paper as Melbourne's is right now.

All players that played for us in 2007 are testament to the fact that the switch from crap to good only came when the players decided to take their football seriously. I'm pretty sure all Geelong supporters have heard of that infamous "chat" that the players had early in the 2007 season.

Geelong finished 10-12 in 1999. Thompson's first year in 2000 we went 12-9 and finished 5th; then 9-13 (12th), 11-11 (9th), 7-14 (12th), and 15-7 (4th). So while Thompson's first five years were definitely a mixed bag he was clearly vastly more successful than Neeld from the start and never ever had a season remotely as bad. It's interesting you bring up testament - whilst 2007 was clearly player driven most Geelong players consistently have said that it was Thompson's coaching of things like competitiveness and hunger for the contest that made them the players they are. For mine, the proof is in the pudding. Neeld might have a mandate for 'change' but his change was ******* disastrous. Contrast that to Ken Hinkley, who took over a playing list also routinely accused of being soft/unprofessional/underachieving and instantly turned it around by challenging rather than belittling the players.

 

[Stig_90]

I think Melbourne are finished tbh, someone should just put a bullet in them because they don't deserve to be in the AFL, and the AFL can't afford to carry then like they seem to expect.

First club in Melbourne means nothing when you tank for draft picks then can't even pay the fine so ask for a handout; when your basically insolvent, scapegoat the coach and then can't pay him out so ask for another AFL handout; when nobody goes to matches; and when prominent media personalities and "clubmen" undermine the club saying they want the side to lose so the coach will be sacked.

I wouldn't care much if they weren't in the AFL anymore after what they've dished up the last two years.

People said the same thing about Port last year and they've turned things around pretty quickly. Melbourne are a long way away from being 'finished'.

 

[Major Colvin]

That wasn't a contradiction, they just never had the quality the senior players whether listed or not that Footscray had. Neeld was 100% correct to get rid of Maloney who may have a few redeeming features but on a whole does not play for the side imo.

You gave Neeld three years to do this and then terminated him half way through. Do you really think it takes just a season to rebuild the culture of a team. Ask any of the top clubs of the last decade - Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Sydney how long it took to build their gameplan, lists and culture

Obviously I dont think it takes one season. I also dont think things should get this much worse before they get better. Lets say Neeld won 8 games next season, then he would only have the list at the same level before he started (2011). On current form, the team do not look like winning a game let alone 8. Their not even close, his average losing margins this season is 77 points. Of 5 games he won as coach, only 1 against a non-expansion club.

There is no way when Neeld took over, this is where he had us tracking 18 months along the line. He failed his own expectations as well as the Boards. Yes, there are external factors also contributing but he is responsible for on-field performance and its been diabolical.

Not helpful at all to compare to us to the rebuilds of those clubs you mentioned. Needless to say they were habitually losing by the margins in the fashion as we have been in there first season and a half. Because without a doubt their coaches would have been sacked too

 

[thejester]

Well I wasn't in favor of sacking Bailley either. But Neeld was given a license by the board to overhaul that club and change it's culture which included the unenviable job of shifting all the garbage senior players who were giving them nothing. Their shambolic board committed to him 3 years and I think that would have been a minimum to find improvement given the footy department he had to work with, in the end they terminated him in half that.

Re-read your second sentence out loud, and compare it to the basic statistics I posted. Clearly those senior players were giving them something, because Melbourne have been utterly ******* woeful since they left - and ironically the one player who epitomises Melbourne's lack of professionalism is Colin Sylvia and he's still there!

They once again took the easy way out and are going to have to pay for it in the millions because I guarantee that not even Clarkson or Lyon could get that much more out of that group of players. The courageous decision would have been to honour the contract, they got the guy in after an exhaustive process because they thought he was the best available and now they need to stick with him. Now I will lol when the next coach fails to get anything out of the current group and they realise they could have used their bail out money on more effective measures.

Except the current group of players is very much Neeld's creation, because he pushed out all those allegedly underperforming senior players and replaced them with the likes of Rodan, Byrnes and Pedersen. The list as it stands is very much a Mark Neeld creation. Secondly, rubbish. Again compare Melbourne and Port Adelaide - Port were considered truly woeful, Hinkley has dramatically turned them around. People are tying themselves in knots to show Neeld is somehow the victim when the simple answer is, Mark Neeld was not a very good coach.

 

[se17enteen]

If Melbourne were a business it would be Enron.

I feel for their fans.

 

[BORK]

The Demons should just die. Change St Kilda to the "Melbourne Saints" with a very dark blue replacing the black on the current St Kilda jumper. Melbourne fans can either support the new team, bandwagon another team or stay neutral. St Kilda fans can cope with this by the AFL providing a "Cost of shitness allowance" COSA for 10 years only to hopefully allow saints fans to witness more devastating Grand Final defeats. Tasmania can forge their own identity when they enter the competition.

 

[00Stinger]

I feel bad for Mark Neeld. I reckon he can coach the biggest problem is the melbourne players can't play

He has some good ideas, hence why he was a very good assistant coach. Unfortunately his man management skills are deplorable, hence why he isn't a good head coach

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I think Melbourne are finished tbh, someone should just put a bullet in them because they don't deserve to be in the AFL, and the AFL can't afford to carry then like they seem to expect.

First club in Melbourne means nothing when you tank for draft picks then can't even pay the fine so ask for a handout; when your basically insolvent, scapegoat the coach and then can't pay him out so ask for another AFL handout; when nobody goes to matches; and when prominent media personalities and "clubmen" undermine the club saying they want the side to lose so the coach will be sacked.

I wouldn't care much if they weren't in the AFL anymore after what they've dished up the last two years.

Nah, they'll be okay.

I suspect the AFL will give them a big push now, and they'll pretty much be treated like another expansion franchise club. If they were a lesser brand, like North or WBD, they'd just be moved to another state, but they'll be kept in Melbourne due to their brand and given what they need by the AFL.

Because of this, they'll be okay in a few years, when we'll be hearing what a great job the Melbourne FC has done to get themselves out of such a precarious position, despite the fact it will be all the AFL's doing.

 

[HolyWars]

Melbourne have sacked another scapegoat, surprise surprise.

I sense that all the AFL assistant coaches are collectively stepping back from the front of the line.

 

[kreglze]

The players, have now seen two coaches part ways very rapidly. Wonder if the writing is on the wall for some of them, heartless, don't care, enjoy the pay packet for very little work? Whatever the case, hope the Melbourne management don't just brush over the players, they should be as accountable as others that work for the footy club.

 

[Hank93]

They needed a complete restructure.

Coach, CEO, President, a number of other board members, all gone. Start again and get the right people in, and the people that brought them into this position out.

You can't fault them here.

Jackson looks a great appointment, and has done everything right so far (could have timed the sacking better, but the result was the right one).
I think Kennet will be good as a president, if he gets it. Has a presence, and won't cop any crap.

Hopefully they can get a senior, experienced coach that the players will actually respond to and respect. Eade or Choco seem the most likely candidates to grab. Roos and Clarkson are unrealistic IMO.
They've announced they'll apoint an new general manager of footy operations, another good move.

Might take a number of years to get back to consistent, competitive footballs, but the steps that have needed to be taken have occurred.

 

[MG MG]

Why did they not do it last Monday, of the desicion was made on Friday without any games between then?

Feel sorry for Mark but his position was untenable.