Toast The media....*Nods Head*

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I remember when Michael Jackson's "beat it" was released and news services were running with stuff like "Since the release of Michael Jackson's 'Beat It' video, rival New York gangs have resorted to settling their differences with dance offs instead of fist fights and violent street battles". This in the era of crack cocaine turf wars. What a load of absolute nonsense. "Put down your weapons. We're gonna settle whose crack corner this is through dance!!!"
 
El_Scorcho said:
Social media dance offs are great but my issue is that nobody seems to be doing the actual running man dance move.
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manureid said:
Not one running man was seen.
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Need Campbell Heath back to show them how it's done.

http://m.portadelaidefc.com.au/video/2013-08-16/ptv-campbell-heath-dancing-in-uggies
 
Needs Gravy said:
5AA news reader tonight on the sport segment made mention of the AFC training tonight, where practicing to lay legal tackles is sure to feature. Or words to that effect.
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was that john riddell with another earth stopping update?
 
David King talking about our resurgence around the 21 minute mark:
listen to this on Audioboo
 
The excuses coming out of Tigerland (the administration, not the fans) have been coming thick and fast, but the most galling is that they were "most affected" by the start-up club concessions, which is pure horseshit if anyone bothered to actually look at the clubs who finished at the bottom of the ladder in the years where their concessions were at their worst.

Well done Andrew Hamilton for recognising this.

"But, the facts are the start-up concessions handed to the Suns and GWS, while generous, have not hurt the rest of the competition that badly.

Theoretically West Coast, who won the wooden spoon in 2010, should have suffered the most from the Suns’ inclusion.

In any other year they would have had the No.1 draft pick but instead it slid to four as the Suns were handed the first three selections.

Yet they played in last year’s grand final.

Port, Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Melbourne finished around the bottom of the ladder in the two years GWS dominated the draft."
​
Not to mention the priority draft pick concessions being scaled down as soon as we stood to benefit from them.
 
TheFVK said:
The excuses coming out of Tigerland (the administration, not the fans) have been coming thick and fast, but the most galling is that they were "most affected" by the start-up club concessions, which is pure horseshit if anyone bothered to actually look at the clubs who finished at the bottom of the ladder in the years where their concessions were at their worst.

Well done Andrew Hamilton for recognising this.

"But, the facts are the start-up concessions handed to the Suns and GWS, while generous, have not hurt the rest of the competition that badly.

Theoretically West Coast, who won the wooden spoon in 2010, should have suffered the most from the Suns’ inclusion.

In any other year they would have had the No.1 draft pick but instead it slid to four as the Suns were handed the first three selections.

Yet they played in last year’s grand final.

Port, Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Melbourne finished around the bottom of the ladder in the two years GWS dominated the draft."
​
Not to mention the priority draft pick concessions being scaled down as soon as we stood to benefit from them.
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We should have had pick 2 and 4 in 2011 and pick 4 in 2012 if there were the old priority picks the Vic clubs were allowed to maxout on for a decade or more and then without concession and compo picks in 2011 our 2nd round pick would have been around 20 not 33 so to say the concessions havent had a impact is rubbish. We lucked out getting some decent $$ back into the footy department, making some smart moves and were able to get high draft SA boys in Ebert and Polec to comeback home.

The AFL dont get why Hawks keep winning flags despite all their 'equalisation" measure. What the dopey AFL and people in the industry like the above commentator dont realise, is that smart or bad moves by clubs or "equalisation" moves by the AFL can take between 5 and 10 maybe even 12 years to wash thru the system. Really bad moves have an immediate impact, but others take a lot longer.

Look at the Hawks getting picks 2 and 5 in 2004 as part of the AFL's equalisation policies back then. They used those two picks wisely getting 2 x 12+ years KPFs compared to Richmond 1 Delidio and 4 Tambling and Bulldogs 3 Griffen and 6 Tom Williams.

The Hawks got the benefit of Roughead and Franklin in 2008 but the real benefit was from 2011 when they hit their physical peak of between 25 and 30 years old and its no fluke that these are the years the Hawks have made the top 4 every year. Eventhough they lost Buddy at the end of 2013 they had him for 9 years and were able to develop a system around him and Roughead as well as their elite kicking and players, and they were smart enough to use to the max another AFL equalisation policy ie Free Agency. The AFL probably arent oblivious to the Free Agency issue but they rubber stamped it.

Not everyone can be equal winners or losers. The AFL dont seem to realise that.The smarter you are the bigger winner you are or least loser. A bit of luck with injuries help, but its mainly effective and efficient management that count.

Thats why you cant say the GC and GWS concessions havent hurt. The real answer wont be revealed until about 2020-25 period when those players denied to other clubs have gone through their peak years of 25 to 30.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
We should have had pick 2 and 4 in 2011 and pick 4 in 2012 if there were the old priority picks the Vic clubs were allowed to maxout on for a decade or more and then without concession and compo picks in 2011 our 2nd round pick would have been around 20 not 33 so to say the concessions havent had a impact is rubbish. We lucked out getting some decent $$ back into the footy department, making some smart moves and were able to get high draft SA boys in Ebert and Polec to comeback home.

The AFL dont get why Hawks keep winning flags despite all their 'equalisation" measure. What the dopey AFL and people in the industry like the above commentator dont realise, is that smart or bad moves by clubs or "equalisation" moves by the AFL can take between 5 and 10 maybe even 12 years to wash thru the system. Really bad moves have an immediate impact, but others take a lot longer.

Look at the Hawks getting picks 2 and 5 in 2004 as part of the AFL's equalisation policies back then. They used those two picks wisely getting 2 x 12+ years KPFs compared to Richmond 1 Delidio and 4 Tambling and Bulldogs 3 Griffen and 6 Tom Williams.

The Hawks got the benefit of Roughead and Franklin in 2008 but the real benefit was from 2011 when they hit their physical peak of between 25 and 30 years old and its no fluke that these are the years the Hawks have made the top 4 every year. Eventhough they lost Buddy at the end of 2013 they had him for 9 years and were able to develop a system around him and Roughead as well as their elite kicking and players, and they were smart enough to use to the max another AFL equalisation policy ie Free Agency. The AFL probably arent oblivious to the Free Agency issue but they rubber stamped it.

Not everyone can be equal winners or losers. The AFL dont see to realise that.The smarter you are the bigger winner you are or least loser. A bit of luck with injuries help, but its mainly effective and efficient management that count.

Thats why you cant say the GC and GWS concessions havent hurt. The real answer wont be revealed until about 2020-25 period when those players denied to other clubs have gone through their peak years of 25 to 30.
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Agree that the concessions have had an impact, we were just lucky enough that Wingard and Wines fell to our picks; I still feel like our depth through drafting suffered because of it which is why we've had to dip our feet in the trade pool so often.

But it's nice to see someone acknowledge that if a club ever had right for grievance from the entrance of these clubs it should be us.
 

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TheFVK said:
Agree that the concessions have had an impact, we were just lucky enough that Wingard and Wines fell to our picks; I still feel like our depth through drafting suffered because of it which is why we've had to dip our feet in the trade pool so often.

But it's nice to see someone acknowledge that if a club ever had right for grievance from the entrance of these clubs it should be us.
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Oh yes you are correct in bagging Richmond for the we are the most effected by the new clubs attitude. They got plenty of freebies year in year out before Hardwick got there. They had a terrible 2010 so they missed out that year but as I said they got plenty of others
 
The Bulldogs made Preliminary Finals in 2008, 2009 and 2010 so they didnt suffer in 2010 that much and finished 10th in 2011 before winning 1/2 game less than us in 2012 so I dont think you can put them in the same class as Port or Melbourne .
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
The Bulldogs made Preliminary Finals in 2008, 2009 and 2010 so they didnt suffer in 2010 that much and finished 10th in 2011 before winning 1/2 game less than us in 2012 so I dont think you can put them in the same class as Port or Melbourne .
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I don't really think you can put Melbourne there either. Over compensation for Frawley, compensation picks before they were abolished, Melbourne have been gifted a shot load of cracks at the draft. How many 1st picks have they had?
 
Jason K said:
I don't really think you can put Melbourne there either. Over compensation for Frawley, compensation picks before they were abolished, Melbourne have been gifted a shot load of cracks at the draft. How many 1st picks have they had?
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Since 1997
1997 Priority Pick 1 Travis Johnstone
Pick 2 is 1st pick of 1st Round, but trade it to Freo for Jeff White ends up at Richmond for Ottens to Geelong.

2003 Priority Pick 3 Colin Sylvia
Pick 5 Brock McLean - should have been 6 but Carlton stripped of pick 5 due to salary cap fine in 2002.

2007 finished 3rd last but got pick 4 as Carlton got a PP and take Cale Morton

2008 pick 1 Jack Watts ( if didn't beat Carlton last game in 2007 would have had a pre Rd 1 priority under the new two s**t years in a row rule)
But get end of Rd 1 pick 17 priority pick -Sam Blease

2009 Priority Pick 1 new two s**t years in a row rule James Scully - a bit of tanking after the 2007 BS helped.
Pick 2 is 1st pick of 1st Round take Jack Trengove

2012 Get Pick 3 and pick 4 is a compo for Scully to GWS + they got mid Rd 1 compo for Scully pick 13
Trade pick 3 + 13 to GWS to get Jessie Hogan via minidraft and get Dom Barry + pick 20 ( used in Dawes trade) and take Toumpas at pick 4

2013 Pick 2 is traded to GWS for Dom Tyson and other picks, get pick 9 as part of deal take Christian Salem

2014 pick 2 Christan Petracca and get Pick 3 compo for losing free agent James Frawley to Hawks
Pick 3 Angus Brayshaw

2015 Trade well, turn 6+29+ Rd 1 2016 pick into 3+10+43 from GC
3 becomes 4 after Sydney bid for Mills and take Oliver at 4
10 +43+ 64 is traded for 7+ Thomas Bugg from GWS (Bugg was a 17 year old pre draft GWS pick originally)
7 becomes 9 after the Mills and GWS-Hopper academy selection and they take Sam Weideman

If Melbourne dont take advantage of their 2012-15 top end picks they wont get out of the s**t for another decade.

2007 - Morton was a bust, 2008 Jack Watts is starting to show something but not what you'd expect from a no.1 and Sam Blease was a bust. Jack Trengove is just bloody rotten luck with his injury. Scully was a bust, but they got Hogan out of his compo picks so that is looking alright. Also in 2011 they got pick 12, would have been 6 without the GWS coming in and used it to trade for Mitch Clarke which was a bust.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
Since 1997
1997 Priority Pick 1 Travis Johnstone
Pick 2 is 1st pick of 1st Round, but trade it to Freo for Jeff White ends up at Richmond for Ottens to Geelong.

2003 Priority Pick 3 Colin Sylvia
Pick 5 Brock McLean - should have been 6 but Carlton stripped of pick 5 due to salary cap fine in 2002.

2007 finished 3rd last but got pick 4 as Carlton got a PP and take Cale Morton

2008 pick 1 Jack Watts ( if didn't beat Carlton last game in 2007 would have had a pre Rd 1 priority under the new two s**t years in a row rule)
But get end of Rd 1 pick 17 priority pick -Sam Blease

2009 Priority Pick 1 new two s**t years in a row rule James Scully - a bit of tanking after the 2007 BS helped.
Pick 2 is 1st pick of 1st Round take Jack Trengove

2012 Get Pick 3 and pick 4 is a compo for Scully to GWS + they got mid Rd 1 compo for Scully pick 13
Trade pick 3 + 13 to GWS to get Jessie Hogan via minidraft and get Dom Barry + pick 20 ( used in Dawes trade) and take Toumpas at pick 4

2013 Pick 2 is traded to GWS for Dom Tyson and other picks, get pick 9 as part of deal take Christian Salem

2014 pick 2 Christan Petracca and get Pick 3 compo for losing free agent James Frawley to Hawks
Pick 3 Angus Brayshaw

2015 Trade well, turn 6+29+ Rd 1 2016 pick into 3+10+43 from GC
3 becomes 4 after Sydney bid for Mills and take Oliver at 4
10 +43+ 64 is traded for 7+ Thomas Bugg from GWS (Bugg was a 17 year old pre draft GWS pick originally)
7 becomes 9 after the Mills and GWS-Hopper academy selection and they take Sam Weideman

If Melbourne dont take advantage of their 2012-15 top end picks they wont get out of the s**t for another decade.

2007 - Morton was a bust, 2008 Jack Watts is starting to show something but not what you'd expect from a no.1 and Sam Blease was a bust. Jack Trengove is just bloody rotten luck with his injury. Scully was a bust, but they got Hogan out of his compo picks so that is looking alright. Also in 2011 they got pick 12, would have been 6 without the GWS coming in and used it to trade for Mitch Clarke which was a bust.
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When you consider our highest ever pick is #4, they really have had an unfair crack at talent, even i the did stuff it up
 
Jason K said:
When you consider our highest ever pick is #4, they really have had an unfair crack at talent, even i the did stuff it up
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Yeah when we were flying in 2014 we heard the commentators say we have had all these first rounders but not all ended up well, they had been on a list for awhile before they clicked and a few got over injuries, and we had to trade away picks to get others. But everyone gets a first rounder every year. Post the disastrous 2004 draft over 9 drafts - we had 8 first rounders we drafted on our list none of them priority picks;
#4 Hartlett 2008, #5 Boak 2006, #6 Wingard 2011, #7 Wines 2012, #8 Butcher 2009, #9 traded in, Moore 2009, #16 traded in Pittard 2009, and Lobbe 2007
Trade in #12 Schulz 2002 was cheap, #13 Ebert 2007 got for a bargain PP #28, #14 Monfies 2004 effective free agent, #5 Polec 2010 had to give up 1st pick

Stuffed up #14 2005 traded away for Motlop, #16 Jacobs 2010,
Traded out #14 for Polec 2013
===============================================
Since then have added in Ryder #7 2005 for #17+ 2014, Dixon a zone selection for #10+ in 2015, Toumpas #4 2012 for 2nd round pick in 2015
 
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RussellEbertHandball said:
Yeah when we were flying in 2014 we heard the commentators say we have had all these first rounders but not all ended up well, they had been on a list for awhile before they clicked and a few got over injuries, and we had to trade away picks to get others. But everyone gets a first rounder every year. Post the disastrous 2004 draft over 9 drafts - we had 8 first rounders we drafted on our list none of them priority picks;
#4 Hartlett 2008, #5 Boak 2006, #6 Wingard 2011, #7 Wines 2012, #8 Butcher 2009, #9 traded in, Moore 2009, #16 traded in Pittard 2009, and Lobbe 2007
Trade in #12 Schulz 2002 was cheap, #13 Ebert 2007 got for a bargain PP #28, #14 Monfies 2004 effective free agent, #5 Polec 2010 had to give up 1st pick

Stuffed up #14 2005 traded away for Motlop, #16 Jacobs 2010,
Traded out #14 for Polec 2013
===============================================
Since then have added in Ryder #7 2005 for #17+ 2014, Dixon a zone selection for #10+ in 2015, Toumpas #4 2012 for 2nd round pick in 2015
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Yeah I was getting a bit annoyed when they kept bringing up our bevy of 1st rounders, almost implying that we were improving off the back of some imaginary leg up.

But as your post clearly demonstrates we've simply picked well in recent years (apart from say Moore and Jacobs) and have been shrewd operators at the trade table.

Not one PP in sight.
 
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