Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[Del191229]

I've said 'yes' to that many, many times.

Do you think IDF soldiers in Gaza looking down their advanced gunsights can differentiate between toddlers and Hamas fighters

 

[Chadwiko]

That’s not an answer.

Because it's a dumb question that supposes every single member of the IDF is guilty of a crime.

Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens (with a few exclusions).

It's perfectly rational to find this notion that all members of the IDF are guilty of committing atrocities is ridiculous.

Find the ones who are actually guilty, and charge them. I'll enthusiastically support that.

But a blanket approach is stupid at best, and bigoted anti-semitism at worst.

 

[Del191229]

I thought collective punishment was bad?

Because it's a dumb question that supposes every single member of the IDF is guilty of a crime.

Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens (with a few exclusions).

It's perfectly rational to find this notion that all members of the IDF are guilty of committing atrocities is ridiculous.

Find the ones who are actually guilty, and charge them. I'll enthusiastically support that.

But a blanket approach is stupid at best, and bigoted anti-semitism at worst.

Ah yes, the "not all men" or "good German" argument.

 

[Del191229]

Being conscripted means you definitely have to go fight, history teaches us this.

 

[Chadwiko]

Ah yes, the "not all men" or "good German" argument.

Ah yes, here comes the 'nazi' accusations again.

Classic.

 

[Del191229]

Ah yes, here comes the 'nazi' accusations again.

Classic.

What?

 

[giantroo]

Daesh stuff

Original:

 

[Val Keating]

Because it's a dumb question that supposes every single member of the IDF is guilty of a crime.

Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens (with a few exclusions).

It's perfectly rational to find this notion that all members of the IDF are guilty of committing atrocities is ridiculous.

Find the ones who are actually guilty, and charge them. I'll enthusiastically support that.

But a blanket approach is stupid at best, and bigoted anti-semitism at worst.

You stated that you think Israel is guilty of genocide, yet you think it’s a stupid question to ask if IDF soldiers carrying out the genocide should be held responsible?

Do you also humanise Nazi soldiers because they were conscripted into Hitlers army?

 

[DesertRoo]

Ah yes, the "not all men" or "good German" argument.

This is the logical conclusion, it’s staring him in the face.
the death toll for this is going to be astronomical, there was population of two million people living in a land 41km by 20km.
70% of all buildings have been raised. There’s no where for these people to go.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a death toll closer to 500,000 to a 1,000,000 or higher when alls said and done.

We’re going to see arrests all over the place for decades to come, if South Africa’s case is successful.

 

[ferball]

Because it's a dumb question that supposes every single member of the IDF is guilty of a crime.

Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens (with a few exclusions).

It's perfectly rational to find this notion that all members of the IDF are guilty of committing atrocities is ridiculous.

Find the ones who are actually guilty, and charge them. I'll enthusiastically support that.

But a blanket approach is stupid at best, and bigoted anti-semitism at worst.

If an Australian citizen has been in Gaza fighting for the IDF then they need to be investigated for war crimes and if there is evidence of war crimes they need to be charged and tried. Not just if they've been in the IDF but if they've been in the IDF and served in areas where war crimes occurred, which is probably all of Gaza, or at least 90% of it.

I doubt they will be tho. There are already war criminals in Australia who have got away with it.

 

[Liam Boy]

Because it's a dumb question that supposes every single member of the IDF is guilty of a crime.

Israel has mandatory military service for all citizens (with a few exclusions).

It's perfectly rational to find this notion that all members of the IDF are guilty of committing atrocities is ridiculous.

Find the ones who are actually guilty, and charge them. I'll enthusiastically support that.

But a blanket approach is stupid at best, and bigoted anti-semitism at worst.

Israelis have the choice of going to prison rather than serving which some choose to do. Remember Tal Mitnick, the kid last year who bravely refused his mandatory military service? They gave him 30 days in prison. And I'm sorry but if I have a choice between being a functionary of a genocidal regime or spending 30 days in prison, I know what I'd choose and I would hope you and everyone else in this thread would make the same choice.

‘More killing won’t bring back lost lives’: Tal Mitnick, 18, on going to prison instead of joining IDF

The first conscientious objector to be jailed in Israel since 7 October says ‘there is no military solution’ to the conflict

www.theguardian.com

How do you distinguish between members of the IDF who do and don't carry out atrocities? If you're the cook feeding the soldiers so they're full of energy to go enforce the boundaries of the illegal settlements, or you're the armorer who gives out the sniper rifles that IDF soldiers use to kneecap peaceful protestors for fun, or you're just a secretary who keeps the apartheid checkpoint system running at peak efficiency, can you really be said to be innocent of atrocities? They're all willing participants in that system, they all bear responsibility for the things that it does. The ones who don't directly pull the trigger are there to support the ones that do.

As far as I'm concerned serving in the IDF is a crime. We wouldn't go easy on a guy who defected to ISIS and tried to return to a normal suburban australian life because he was only the sword sharpener, not the actual beheader.

 

[Del191229]

The world's greatest ever press release soon followed

 

[Grogg]

Genocide is perpetuated by a populace devoid of independent journalism. It's not hard to work out. You control the narrative, you control the perception. Journalists and indeed all opposing viewpoints have been irradicated in Israel and to a large extent silenced both here and abroad. Why has this occurred? Compliance. Control the narrative, control the "truth".

 

[Grogg]

The same approach allowed the Holocaust to happen which was a stain on humanity.

 

[Liam Boy]

Genocide is perpetuated by a populace devoid of independent journalism. It's not hard to work out. You control the narrative, you control the perception. Journalists and indeed all opposing viewpoints have been irradicated in Israel and to a large extent silenced both here and abroad. Why has this occurred? Compliance. Control the narrative, control the "truth".

That's not entirely true, a lot of good reporting comes from haaretz. They print basic truths about what Israel is doing that don't seem to ever make it to the international mainstream press.

 

[Val Keating]

Genocide is perpetuated by a populace devoid of independent journalism. It's not hard to work out. You control the narrative, you control the perception. Journalists and indeed all opposing viewpoints have been irradicated in Israel and to a large extent silenced both here and abroad. Why has this occurred? Compliance. Control the narrative, control the "truth".

Israel literally targeted and killed journalists families reporting the genocide. They even went as far as Bombing a refugee camp to kill a journalist’s family, a place where the Israelis ordered his family to go so they would be safe.

 

[Grogg]

Israel literally targeted and killed journalists families reporting the genocide. They even went as far as Bombing a refugee camp to kill a journalist’s family, a place where the Israelis ordered his family to go so they would be safe.

Hospitals, schools, refugee camps. Apparently everywhere is a Hamas stronghold. I always found it ridiculous that the solution to get the hostages back was to flatten the area where they were held to a pancake. Solid reasoning that.

 

[tazaa]

I see you got a lot of likes from people on this board

So to clarify your and their position, you’re saying that the United Nations investigation into rape, torture and mutilation by members of Hamas on Oct 7 has been debunked?

Reasonable Grounds to Believe Conflict-Related Sexual Violence Occurred in Israel During 7 October Attacks, Senior UN Official Tells Security Council | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases​

There are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang-rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery during the attacks on 7 October 2023, a senior United Nations official reported to the Security Council today, as she...

press.un.org
The investigation from the UN that visited sites, spoke to witnesses, looked at photos, looked at remains etc has been debunked?
Click to expand...

I will repeat what The Warlord posted earlier and that is there would have been examples of where sexual violence occurred. It’s been rightfully condemned.

As for large scale torture and mutilation?
That was propagandised and put on loop for the international community to absorb.

And Liam is correct. That has been debunked. But the damage has been done. It was heavily streamed around the world all for the purpose of Atrocity propaganda.

Just like the story of 40 beheaded babies.
Just like the story of the woman who had her breast cut out.
Just like the children in ovens story. These are wartime tactics. It has nothing to do with the Jewish people whatsoever. This in itself is antisemitic.

These stories were all heavily manufactured to justify the genocide of Palestinians, to justify the women and children slaughtered the past 12 months and sadly the past 76 years, and it’s that dehumanisation that we’ve seen that has been catastrophic. Israeli government got what it needed.

Unlike what the media reports, Palestinian lives do matter.
This ideology of Zionism is an illness. A cancer that has caused such destruction and unbearable pain and it must be stamped out.

#meto unless you’re a Jew right

Imagine not believing rape survivors based on their ethnicity

Some lowwwwwwwww people around these parts

Quick like the rape denial posts

Laughs at the women being r*ped and murders

that’ll show dem Jews
Click to expand...

Let me spell it out for you.
Any acts of sexual violence is repulsive and must be condemned and called out.

Up until now, there hasn’t been one rape survivor or victim come forward and the Israeli government has not released any official findings into any mass scale attacks.
The sensitivity around the subject meant the UN investigation could only confirm the allegations based upon the information it received from the IDF. We can trust the UN on this. But the IDF? Not for me. Why have we not heard from the victims themselves?
And the IDF as a source is about as reliable as North Korea.

Again, this type of case has been weaponised countless times over the decades to further justify the brutalisation of Palestinian life.

Palestinians bad. Palestinians are animals.
This is the Israeli governments own words.

And it worked hey. 45,000 deaths later with 160,000 unaccounted for.
Who gives a shit tho right?
Even Trump used the word in a derogatory manner. It’s disgusting.

‘Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape​

Israeli society is divided over arrest of 10 soldiers for brutal gang rape of a Palestinian prisoner caught on video.

www.aljazeera.com

I wanted to make another point of this incident.
It’s actual video evidence of rape of a Palestinian prisoner by his IDF officers.
Not only did nothing come of this, the officer who was held for questioning was broken out of prison by a group of Israelis, pardoned by the government and then became a tv celebrity ffs
And the world did not care. At all. The world’s media barely gave it a whisper.

And this is just one example. There are countless more.
And I mean you have the audacity to come in here and play the anti-semitism card of whataboutism.
Don’t insult our intelligence.
There is a reason the Palestinians need a voice. Without one they will cease to exist.
We cannot allow that to happen.

 

[Del191229]

Imagine thinking these are the good guys

 

[Del191229]

That's what it could be if everyone was here engaging in good faith. Unfortunately for the rest of us, you come here with a clear and transparent agenda that you constantly push. You think you're getting away with it. You aren't.

This stuff is all in your head.

DawofPerception Reason #1: it's devastating for my agenda.

End list.

This is all in your head.

a) No it's not
b) The reason you love it so much is because it's Russian propaganda that puts democratically elected Jewish-Ukrainian Zelenskyy alongside three literal dictators and a literal terrorst as if they are comparable somehow. It's actually extremely representative of your shithouse views on the subject.

It takes a lot of work be so studiously ignorant.

And yet the only one picking sides consistently is you; and the 'side' you've picked is Russia.

OK

Don't have one. That's what frustrates you so much isn't it?

Classic of the "neither left or right" = far right meme.

Still very supportive. Cannabis is barely a drug. And isn't what I was referring to.

A word here. I'm not sure what you're referring to either, but I'd caution you from referring any further.

 

[Del191229]

 

[Chadwiko]

A total of four Australians have gone or attempted to go fight for the IDF.

Can we put to rest this dumb hypothetical issue now?

 

[Del191229]

I knew Salmond well, it was such good luck for me the SNP got up in 2007 and made my journalism career so much more interesting.

I have biding memories of Salmond as First Minister dealing with questions from unionist BBC and Torygraph journos by throwing to me like "I'll take a question from Jamie now, he's from a prosperous independent country that retains strong links with Britain ... yes, it is possible folks".

He went pretty cooked late in his career with Alba, and the sexual assault/rape allegations were a hideous ordeal for all involved.

But he was a towering political figure who took Scottish independence from being a quasi-joke to the natural party of government in Scotland, and even though they lost the referendum, he won an enormous strategic victory simply by getting one up, and demonstrating that at 45 per cent, support for independence was sustained and widespread across society, not a fringe affairs for cranks who had watched Braveheart one too many times.

 

[Del191229]

A total of four Australians have gone or attempted to go fight for the IDF.

Can we put to rest this dumb hypothetical issue now?


View attachment 2139606

So that's four possible war crimes trials if they return. A pretty big deal really.

Given how many young Muslim men were jailed simply on SUSPICION of supporting Daesh, its not a dumb hypothetical at all.

DFAT says on population:

A vibrant Australian-Jewish community, which numbers about 99,950 (2021 census), is an important element of Australia's relationship with Israel. There are 11,035 Israeli-born people living in Australia, mostly in Victoria and NSW, and about 10-12,000 Australians living in Israel.

The thousands of Australian citizens living in Israel widens the net considerably. A number - quite considerable - will be currently serving in the IDF and nearly all will have served at some point.

If they return they must also be investigated for war crimes in a genocide.

Its not at all a hypothetical let alone dumb.

 

[DesertRoo]

So that's four possible war crimes trials if they return. A pretty big deal really.

Given how many young Muslim men were jailed simply on SUSPICION of supporting Daesh, its not a dumb hypothetical at all.

DFAT says on population:



The thousands of Australian citizens living in Israel widens the net considerably. A number - quite considerable - will be currently serving in the IDF and nearly all will have served at some point.

If they return they must also be investigated for war crimes in a genocide.

Its not at all a hypothetical let alone dumb.

Lol that Ben Robert’s Smith thing was such a nothing burger, it’s not like in engulfed the whole of the media for a couple of years.
I mean it’s not like there’s even going to be any public pressure, like there’s been no protests against this or anything.