The real legacy of Trump

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dumb

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i'm not a great student of US politics. but i do find it vaguely amusing/alarming that a president's progeny or relations are thrown into the mix as presidential candidates by default. is this a newish phenomenon? obviously political families like the kennedy's exist but has it always been this overt?
it's possible a loose anti-establishment legacy may come about. if there's only one person who could turn the office into even more of a circus than trump, it would be kanye west and he's already floating in the wings. with republican nomination his pro-life stance would already afford him a hefty amount of guaranteed votes despite, well, a whole truckload of potential issues.

i don't think dem supporters are immune from this type of cheerleading - michelle obama and oprah winfrey were 2 previous candidate suggestions after hilary couldn't overcome donnie.

his legacy will likely be as someone not to aspire to. crazed twittering, cronyism, avoidance of outside expertise. he's set new nadirs that future presidents will know to (be seen to) avoid.
 

Ned_Flanders

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i'm not a great student of US politics. but i do find it vaguely amusing/alarming that a president's progeny or relations are thrown into the mix as presidential candidates by default. is this a newish phenomenon? obviously political families like the kennedy's exist but has it always been this overt?
it's possible a loose anti-establishment legacy may come about. if there's only one person who could turn the office into even more of a circus than trump, it would be kanye west and he's already floating in the wings. with republican nomination his pro-life stance would already afford him a hefty amount of guaranteed votes despite, well, a whole truckload of potential issues.

i don't think dem supporters are immune from this type of cheerleading - michelle obama and oprah winfrey were 2 previous candidate suggestions after hilary couldn't overcome donnie.

his legacy will likely be as someone not to aspire to. crazed twittering, cronyism, avoidance of outside expertise. he's set new nadirs that future presidents will know to (be seen to) avoid.
It's always been a thing

The Roosevelts, Rockerfellers, Daley's, Taft's, Harrison's, Adams
 

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parsons nose

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Democracy is no longer the only game in town. Whether that is a good or bad thing, the jury is still out. The flaws in the system appeared long before Trump came along. What we do know is that at least, in some degree there is support policies which include; building a wall, withdrawing occupying forces, trade tariffs and gutting of the foreign offices.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Trump's political trajectory reminds me of the WWE trope of "heel turned face", which is when a "bad guy" becomes a fan favourite because of his "attitude", like Stone Cold Steve Austin. His catchphrase was "suck it" and millions of people thought it was amazing. I think we can assume which way they voted, if at all. They would have loved Trump's "attitude".

Also, in the parlance of WWE, the word kayfabe refers to the way scripted or staged events are treated as genuine. In Trump's refusal to concede the election, despite no evidence for his complaints, he has taken a position that is purely performative, pure theatre. Trump's enduring legacy may be his status as the first kayfabe president.
 

kranky al

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The green new deal doesnt benefit the current middle. It benefits the future middle who mostly dont yet vote. Medicare for all doesnt benefit the middle if they lose their private health insurance. Medicare for all benefits the low income workers and unemployed. Not the middle.
you are clearly unaware that the largest cause of bunkruptcy in america is medical bills

wanna turn a solid middle class citizen into a pauper - get a chronic illness and run out of deductible

say goodbye to your house

of course in australia with medicare that doesn't happen
 

Seeds

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you are clearly unaware that the largest cause of bunkruptcy in america is medical bills

wanna turn a solid middle class citizen into a pauper - get a chronic illness and run out of deductible

say goodbye to your house

of course in australia with medicare that doesn't happen
I am aware. But it doesnt bankrupt the middle because most of them have private health insurance through their employers. It bankrupts the low income earners who dont.
 

kranky al

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I am aware. But it doesnt bankrupt the middle because most of them have private health insurance through their employers. It bankrupts the low income earners who dont.
incorrect.

us private health runs out.

if you get cancer or some other longterm illness they pay for as ling as your deductible lasts then you are on your own - and medical care us hideously expensive over there.

lower class people dont own houses for the most part - they rent


im talking about solid middle class folk


<<< – In 2007, before the current economic downturn, an American family filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds; three-quarters of them were insured.Over 60% of all bankruptcies in the United States in 2007 were driven by medical incidents. In an article published in the August 2009 issue of The American Journal of Medicine, the results of the first-ever national random-sample survey of bankruptcy filers shows that illnesses and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of bankruptcies. The share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 50% between 2001 and 2007.

Following up on a 2001 study in 5 states, where medical problems contributed to at least 46.2% of all bankruptcies, researchers from Cambridge Hospital/Harvard Medical School, Harvard Law School and Ohio University surveyed a random national sample of 2,314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court records, and interviewed 1,032 of them. They designated bankruptcies as “medical” based on debtors’ stated reasons for filing, income loss due to illness and the magnitude of their medical debts.

Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6%. The odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause were 2.38 fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.

According to the study, a number of circumstances propelled many middle-class, insured Americans into bankruptcy. For 92% of the medically bankrupt, high medical bills directly contributed to their bankruptcy. Many families with continuous coverage found themselves under-insured, responsible for thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket costs. Out-of-pocket medical costs averaged $17,943 for all medically bankrupt families: $26,971 for uninsured patients; $17,749 for those with private insurance at the outset; $14,633 for those with Medicaid; $12,021 for those with Medicare; and $6,545 for those with VA/military coverage. For patients who initially had private coverage but lost it, the family’s out-of-pocket expenses averaged $22,568.

Because almost all insurance is linked to employment, a medical event can trigger loss of coverage. Nationally, a quarter of firms cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness; another quarter does so within a year. Income loss due to illness was also common, but nearly always coupled with high medical bills.

Writing in the article, David U. Himmelstein, M.D., states, “The US health care financing system is broken, and not only for the poor and uninsured. Middle class families frequently collapse under the strain of a health care system that treats physical wounds, but often inflicts fiscal ones.”

“This study provides further evidence that the US health care system is broken,” according to James E. Dalen, M.D., M.P.H., University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson. “Medical bankruptcy is almost a unique American phenomenon, which does not occur in countries that have national health insurance. These long-time advocates of a single payer system give us another compelling reason to work toward this goal as a nation.”The article is “Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study” by David U. Himmelstein, M.D., Deborah Thorne, Ph.D., Elizabeth Warren, J.D., and Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., M.P.H. It appears in The American Journal of Medicine, Volume 122, Issue 8 (August 2009) published by Elsevier.>>>>


source : https://www.elsevier.com/about/pres...bankruptcies-attributable-to-medical-problems
 

Seeds

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incorrect.

us private health runs out.

if you get cancer or some other longterm illness they pay for as ling as your deductible lasts then you are on your own - and medical care us hideously expensive over there.

lower class people dont own houses for the most part - they rent


im talking about solid middle class folk


<<< – In 2007, before the current economic downturn, an American family filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds; three-quarters of them were insured.Over 60% of all bankruptcies in the United States in 2007 were driven by medical incidents. In an article published in the August 2009 issue of The American Journal of Medicine, the results of the first-ever national random-sample survey of bankruptcy filers shows that illnesses and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of bankruptcies. The share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 50% between 2001 and 2007.

Following up on a 2001 study in 5 states, where medical problems contributed to at least 46.2% of all bankruptcies, researchers from Cambridge Hospital/Harvard Medical School, Harvard Law School and Ohio University surveyed a random national sample of 2,314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court records, and interviewed 1,032 of them. They designated bankruptcies as “medical” based on debtors’ stated reasons for filing, income loss due to illness and the magnitude of their medical debts.

Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6%. The odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause were 2.38 fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.

According to the study, a number of circumstances propelled many middle-class, insured Americans into bankruptcy. For 92% of the medically bankrupt, high medical bills directly contributed to their bankruptcy. Many families with continuous coverage found themselves under-insured, responsible for thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket costs. Out-of-pocket medical costs averaged $17,943 for all medically bankrupt families: $26,971 for uninsured patients; $17,749 for those with private insurance at the outset; $14,633 for those with Medicaid; $12,021 for those with Medicare; and $6,545 for those with VA/military coverage. For patients who initially had private coverage but lost it, the family’s out-of-pocket expenses averaged $22,568.

Because almost all insurance is linked to employment, a medical event can trigger loss of coverage. Nationally, a quarter of firms cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness; another quarter does so within a year. Income loss due to illness was also common, but nearly always coupled with high medical bills.

Writing in the article, David U. Himmelstein, M.D., states, “The US health care financing system is broken, and not only for the poor and uninsured. Middle class families frequently collapse under the strain of a health care system that treats physical wounds, but often inflicts fiscal ones.”

“This study provides further evidence that the US health care system is broken,” according to James E. Dalen, M.D., M.P.H., University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson. “Medical bankruptcy is almost a unique American phenomenon, which does not occur in countries that have national health insurance. These long-time advocates of a single payer system give us another compelling reason to work toward this goal as a nation.”The article is “Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study” by David U. Himmelstein, M.D., Deborah Thorne, Ph.D., Elizabeth Warren, J.D., and Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., M.P.H. It appears in The American Journal of Medicine, Volume 122, Issue 8 (August 2009) published by Elsevier.>>>>


source : https://www.elsevier.com/about/pres...bankruptcies-attributable-to-medical-problems
I stand corrected then. Americans are indeed idiots. What is even the point of employer provided private health insurance if you can get sacked once you are sick and lose your insurance? And why do the labour unions defend it so much?
 

kranky al

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I stand corrected then. Americans are indeed idiots. What is even the point of employer provided private health insurance if you can get sacked once you are sick and lose your insurance? And why do the labour unions defend it so much?
its almost like america is set up to benefit a small cabal of very wealthy people who have bribed the politicians to keep the rules all tilted firmly in favour of them.

they keep a diminishing middle class onside with incredibly cheap labour at such a low rate that its in effect almost slavery - so this middle class can have cleaners and gardeners and feel like they are upper class.
 

sherb

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I saw this on FB.

Number 1 would be any Republican president, so that doesn't fall on Trump.

But the other three do, of course with enablement from the Republican establishment and support of his base.

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