2nds The SANFL Thread

[Golumless]

The days of teams (at least ones with decent recruitment staff in place) picking duds early in the first round are long gone. Even if you don't have any faith in the draft, those early picks can also be used to trade in proven quality players.

Refusing to factor in the loss of a commodity, which could command a salary of $1m a year, for absolutely nothing doesn't help to strengthen your ridiculous position either.

Bullshit, every draft has and will have duds picked in the top 20, it happens. You can pick the most skillful player but if the desire/mindset isn't there then he is a dud. You could pick the guy who was dominant in U18s but if it is mainly due to being bigger then everyone else then it is a higher chance it will fail if he is surrounded by people his build. Not every gun player will get a high pick and not every high pick will result in a gun player.

I'm refusing to factor it in because it is speculation, we lost Tippett for nothing. Yes it hurts, no matter how good Jenkins becomes but anything outside of saying we lost Jessie White (wow!) and pick 22 (which Sydney' selection has been a bit of a dud so far ) is pointless because it wasn't offered and we were desperate to offload him.

 

[LC40]

We have already weathered half of those draft sanctions and Tippet worth isn't that much with the amount of concussions. Brisbane were only willing to give up pick 8 (or Polac) for a healthier Tippet but that is speculative.

The golden age is still on my good man, i mean look at all of the youth we have that actually look comfortable at AFL level and with a bit of a tank and natural improvement will take the league by storm. Free Agency, Pre Season draft, trading. The methods are there to fill problems positions.

How have we weathered the storm.... all we've done is served half of our penalty?
Missing last years draft picks and a first and second round pick this year have ramifications for years to come.
Those players we missed out on in the draft had the possibility to play for years.
Even if our success rate had only been 25%, that's 25% more bang for our buck than we have now.

That isn't speculation either, you certainly don't see teams surrendering draft picks (unless they are trading up to get a higher pick in the draft) because draft picks are the major method teams use to upgrade their lists for future seasons.
Players are currency in this league, on and off the field!
The more quality players you possess, the better your results are on field while a team roster filled with quality players certainly gives you an advantage at the trading table.
Players taken in the 1st and 2nd rounds and haven't lived up to expectations will inevitably get looked at a second time on the trade table.
The club will salvage some compensation for the perceived underachieving of a previous 1st rounder.

Players taken in the 4th and 5th round and also haven't cemented a spot will have a far less chance of being looked at again. In all likelihood they will be delisted and the club will receive no reimbursement for the outlay of developing that player on their list.
Just having those extra four picks gave us a stronger bargaining chip than we now have and that's before the individuals performance is factored in.

Losing Tippett should have acquired us something....instead we got nothing!
Why the concussions come into it I can't quite fathom. He still had a very large net worth on the trade table.

Free Agency, Pre Season draft, trading. The methods are there to fill problems positions.

....Absolutely!
They are the extra tools you use to supplement your draft picks and improve your list not to replace them the draft picks.
It is such a flippant remark to say a loss of that many draft picks will have little effect, anyone would think you are Rob Chapman giving that spill.

I concur our young players have come on in leaps and bounds but to sweep under the carpet the impact of losing those draft picks is naive in the extreme and if you think we are entering a golden age imagine what it would be like with those picks.

 

[headache1]

Bullshit, every draft has and will have duds picked in the top 20, it happens. You can pick the most skillful player but if the desire/mindset isn't there then he is a dud. You could pick the guy who was dominant in U18s but if it is mainly due to being bigger then everyone else then it is a higher chance it will fail if he is surrounded by people his build. Not every gun player will get a high pick and not every high pick will result in a gun player.

I'm refusing to factor it in because it is speculation, we lost Tippett for nothing. Yes it hurts, no matter how good Jenkins becomes but anything outside of saying we lost Jessie White (wow!) and pick 22 (which Sydney' selection has been a bit of a dud so far ) is pointless because it wasn't offered and we were desperate to offload him.

Please feel free to point out the duds we have picked in the first round in recent years.

Trading out a player able to command a salary of $1m per year should be netting you at least two high first round draft picks, or a very high quality player in return. We were only offered Jesse White and pick 22 because our inept administration orchestrated an illegal agreement between themselves and Tippett, hence the anger toward them.

Again, your position is ridiculous.

Last I'll be saying on the matter in here, as this is becoming yet another Tippett/Crows administration thread.

 

[hey shorty]

I dont think we have weathered the storm so to speak, but we have done a reasonable job to lessen the blow. Obviously we had to pay for Crouch but he was set to be a top 5er last year, and in Hartigan and especially Laird we have pinched 2 very handy rookies. This year our recruiting guys have to do an even better job sifting through leagues like the SANFL for hidden gems, especially if we cant land a decent FA or somehow find our way high up in the draft

 

[Cap]

Please feel free to point out the duds we have picked in the first round in recent years.

by the sounds of it...we traded for 2

Tambing and LJ

 

[Lawrst]

by default

McKernan: The two sweetest words in the English language! De-FAULT! De-FAULT! De-FAULT!

 

[Team DJ]

LJ yes. Angus hell no. Kerridge unlikely, given that we have Rutten & Dangerfield both likely to return - and they're unlikely to make more than 3 changes.

And we hit the conundrum once again that you always always seem to miss or not understand. Who is the second ruck? Whether its for 2 minutes a quarters or 15 we'll need someone to play that role. Jenkins wont, I doubt Smack will come up (And only would if they dont want Graham in), then who will if its not Graham?

 

[Vader]

And we hit the conundrum once again that you always always seem to miss or not understand. Who is the second ruck? Whether its for 2 minutes a quarters or 15 we'll need someone to play that role. Jenkins wont, I doubt Smack will come up (And only would if they dont want Graham in), then who will if its not Graham?

Jacobs can ruck the whole game if he has to. It's not ideal, but he's done it before and there will be times when he will do it again. Failing that, one of our other talls (possibly Talia) can pinch hit for a few minutes here and there.

Nobody says it's an ideal situation. Ideally we'd have a competent 2nd ruck and wouldn't have to worry about McKernan or Graham. Quite frankly, Jacobs rucking alone, using a pinch hitter if absolutely necessary, is a better option than voluntarily going in with 21 players (aka selecting Graham).

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Jacobs can ruck the whole game if he has to. It's not ideal, but he's done it before and there will be times when he will do it again. Failing that, one of our other talls (possibly Talia) can pinch hit for a few minutes here and there.

Nobody says it's an ideal situation. Ideally we'd have a competent 2nd ruck and wouldn't have to worry about McKernan or Graham. Quite frankly, Jacobs rucking alone, using a pinch hitter if absolutely necessary, is a better option than voluntarily going in with 21 players (aka selecting Graham).

Would you consider Osbourne or Dowdell?

 

[Vader]

Would you consider Osbourne or Dowdell?

Osbourne no. At least Dowdell is playing regular SANFL footy.

I've even seen one of his SANFL games, albeit on TV. Watched him get taken apart by Renouf in the Norwood vs Centrals game from a couple of weeks ago.

Not sure what to make of the suggestion really. It was fairly evident from that game that he's a fair way off being ready to play AFL footy. On the other hand, it couldn't hurt his development to select him as a one-off. I definitely wouldn't like to see it become a regular thing - it's not an experiment I'd care to see played out for more than one week, let alone the 5 we have remaining.

Does he bring enough to the table as a second ruck, given that he's not much use around the ground? Are we better off with Jacobs going solo (with an occasional pinch hitter)? I'm leaning towards the latter, but I wouldn't scream blue murder if they were to give Dowdell a run. It's an unusual idea, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have merit.

 

[cmndstab]

I reckon Graham is marked as only needing to be used if Jacobs doesn't play. He's not there to be a pinch-hitter when Jacobs needs a rest, he's there to be Jacobs if Jacobs can't be.


If we've run out of backup ruck options, we either promote Dowdell (probably not) or play without one (most likely).

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Osbourne no. At least Dowdell is playing regular SANFL footy.

I've even seen one of his SANFL games, albeit on TV. Watched him get taken apart by Renouf in the Norwood vs Centrals game from a couple of weeks ago.

Not sure what to make of the suggestion really. It was fairly evident from that game that he's a fair way off being ready to play AFL footy. On the other hand, it couldn't hurt his development to select him as a one-off. I definitely wouldn't like to see it become a regular thing - it's not an experiment I'd care to see played out for more than one week, let alone the 5 we have remaining.

Does he bring enough to the table as a second ruck, given that he's not much use around the ground? Are we better off with Jacobs going solo (with an occasional pinch hitter)? I'm leaning towards the latter, but I wouldn't scream blue murder if they were to give Dowdell a run. It's an unusual idea, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have merit.

Isn't Osbourne playing league with Centrals ? .....IMO the better prospect ....BUT Dowdell looks to have reasonable skills PLUS he has a touch of aggression

Is there any value in playing Graham ?

 

[Vader]

Isn't Osbourne playing league with Centrals ? .....IMO the better prospect ....BUT Dowdell looks to have reasonable skills PLUS he has a touch of aggression

Is there any value in playing Graham ?

I'm honestly not sure how our rookies are going. I know Dowdell is playing SANFL league, because I saw him playing in the game I watched over the weekend. I really don't know enough about Osbourne to make an informed decision.

Right now there is no value in playing Graham. It's Jacobs or Graham, not both - and right now Jacobs does not need to be dropped.

 

[PykeDream]

Jacobs can ruck the whole game if he has to. It's not ideal, but he's done it before and there will be times when he will do it again. Failing that, one of our other talls (possibly Talia) can pinch hit for a few minutes here and there.

Nobody says it's an ideal situation. Ideally we'd have a competent 2nd ruck and wouldn't have to worry about McKernan or Graham. Quite frankly, Jacobs rucking alone, using a pinch hitter if absolutely necessary, is a better option than voluntarily going in with 21 players (aka selecting Graham).

And it's not as though Port are playing a genuine second ruck either is it? Lobbe + short stints from Stewart and Westhoff hardly inspires fear, not after the Match Of 64 anyway.

If McKernan's fully fit I think we should leave him in the side, but if not I have no problem with sacrificing a plodding tall for a handier utility or mid. Graham and Dowdell just aren't worth it IMO given their lack of ability around the ground.

 

[chazwazza]

Angus Graham has been pretty good for Sturt, presenting a good target up forward, clunking some good marks and he's a surprisingly good kick for goal. With Jenkins out he deserves a few games.

 

[MRB37]

Angus Graham has been pretty good for Sturt, presenting a good target up forward, clunking some good marks and he's a surprisingly good kick for goal. With Jenkins out he deserves a few games.

Well he's ahead of Jacobs, McKernan and Jenkins there.

I wouldn't be against playing Dowdell against Melbourne in Rd 22 just to give him a taste and see what he produces.

 

[Team DJ]

Angus Graham has been pretty good for Sturt, presenting a good target up forward, clunking some good marks and he's a surprisingly good kick for goal. With Jenkins out he deserves a few games.

But Vader said he isnt an option and Daniel Talia would be a better choice in the ruck. So that means he cant play

 

[Vader]

But Vader said he isnt an option and Daniel Talia would be a better choice in the ruck. So that means he cant play

Do you think Graham is a viable option for replacing Smack?

 

[Jars458]

Do you think Graham is a viable option for replacing Smack?

Potentially. I havn't seen him play this year. We may be forced to trying it. Its certainly a better option than Talia in the ruck.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Do you think Graham is a viable option for replacing Smack?

Not in the ruck and especially not when Angus Kurtz has over taken him as the number 1 ruck at Sturt.

 

[Team DJ]

Do you think Graham is a viable option for replacing Smack?

Yes. Better then Talia.

 

[Vader]

Yes. Better then Talia.

Why?

Jacobs is capable of rucking for 80% of the game, or more. He has rucked 100% before. So, potentially we're talking about bringing in a player who is only functioning for at most 20% of the game (assuming he's pretty much a dead loss in any other position). Effectively, we'd be down a player for 80% of the game.

Is playing Talia in the ruck, for 10-15% of the game, going to hurt us as much as being a man down for 80% of the game? I doubt it. Particularly when you consider Port's backup ruck options, which aren't that crash hot to begin with.

 

[Vader]

Potentially. I havn't seen him play this year. We may be forced to trying it. Its certainly a better option than Talia in the ruck.

I'm not talking about Talia rucking for a meaningful period of the game. Probably only 10-15% of the game, enough to give Sauce a breather every now & then.

Graham is a sauce replacement, should the emergency arise. He is not a McKernan replacement. Our McKernan backup is Jenkins.

 

[hey shorty]

Having seen a bit of Graham this year he wouldn't be that bad of a replacement for Smack. His forward play is quite good and he runs to the right spots, plus he can kick straight. That said I cant see us bringing him in unless theyre not confident on Sauces fitness.

 

[Jars458]

I'm not talking about Talia rucking for a meaningful period of the game. Probably only 10-15% of the game, enough to give Sauce a breather every now & then.

Graham is a sauce replacement, should the emergency arise. He is not a McKernan replacement. Our McKernan backup is Jenkins.

No Jenkins is our Walker back up you mean. I understand your point, but I figure it could be worth a try. He's a big body and will take some standing up forward, although obviously defensive action may be a worry.

Rutten Danger Graham and Johnson for Hartigan Lyons McKernan and Jenkins are like for like swaps. Happy for Tambling to be out and not Lyons but obviously not like for like.