Rumour The St Kilda debt situation - no more tick

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#gosaintas said:
I guess the sheer size of bayside in an oversupplied melb market is the upside. StKilda to Portsea is all StKilda's to grab if they get their act together. That's the opportunity for them.
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People who live there already have footy teams.
 
StCicatriz said:
There's also a huge difference between the support of both clubs
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There's really not. You're not Richmond in 2010 with a massive latent support.
 

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KingsRansom said:
Actually we have a rather large fan base. Especially in Gippsland.
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FWIW...


Eh713LnXYAEDiil.png

Official 2020
AFL Club Memberships*

[TD valign="bottom"] % of supporters who are members [/TD][TD valign="bottom"][/TD]
[TD valign="bottom"] Roy Morgan Supporter
Numbers [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Hawthorn Hawks [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 20.5% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 373,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 76,343 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] North Melbourne Kangaroos [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 20.1% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 192,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 38,667 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] GWS Giants [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 19.7% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 156,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 30,841 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Richmond Tigers [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 19.5% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 514,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 100,420 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Gold Coast Suns [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 17.6% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 93,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 16,236 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] St. Kilda Saints [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 16.3% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 297,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 48,588 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Port Adelaide Power [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 16.3% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 287,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 46,820 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Melbourne Demons [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 16.2% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 250,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 40,571 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Western Bulldogs [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 15.3% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 254,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 38,876 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Carlton Blues [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 15.1% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 445,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 67,035 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] West Coast Eagles [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 14.2% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 710,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 100,776 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Geelong Cats [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 14.1% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 426,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 60,066 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Fremantle Dockers [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 14.0% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 369,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 51,577 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Essendon Bombers [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 11.6% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 573,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 66,686 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Collingwood Magpies [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 10.6% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 726,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 76,862 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Adelaide Crows [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 8.9% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 618,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 54,891 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Sydney Swans [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 4.6% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 1,052,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 48,322 [/TD]

[TD valign="bottom"] Brisbane Lions [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 4.4% [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 658,000 [/TD][TD valign="bottom"] 29,277 [/TD]
 
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Going back to someone's post about how many millions are used to bail out St Kilda, I once had a serious discussion with some St Kilda followers who were very successful in their fields (internationally successful). I said, "If the Saints offered you more money than you're on now, would you quit your job and take it?" and not one of them said yes. They all said the off-field instability/unpredictability of the administration of the club (not the right words, but I can't think of the one) means that you'd really have no job security. Just really has never been a well-run organisation. Sooo many examples... the club's history is littered with them. Such poorly administered organisations never do particularly well.

I'm a locked in member, because I'm the kind of flog who doesn't change teams... but jeez it's been hard as a supporter, particularly as someone who started following around 1973.... lots of bad, bad years. Alan Jeans once said that the off-field side is what kills the Saints. Yep.

If I hear they're getting bailed out more, and a club leader says he "doesn't know" how much they're getting, relative to others, it is either: them lying and hoping naïve people believe it; them trying smoke and mirrors as distraction/diversion tactic just to placate people from inside or outside the club who ask questions; or them being incompetent. Take your pick, none sound good. But all sound very St. Kilda-ish.

I'm 54, never seen a Saints flag in my lifetime. Dunno if I ever will. And, if the Saints moved interstate (like what happened to the old Fitzroy being forced to Brisbane), I'm one of those who'd say it's not the same club, and I wouldn't follow them. I hate to see any of the original clubs forced to close - still resentful over what they did to Fitzroy.
 
Sainter3and7 said:
Going back to someone's post about how many millions are used to bail out St Kilda, I once had a serious discussion with some St Kilda followers who were very successful in their fields (internationally successful). I said, "If the Saints offered you more money than you're on now, would you quit your job and take it?" and not one of them said yes. They all said the off-field instability/unpredictability of the administration of the club (not the right words, but I can't think of the one) means that you'd really have no job security. Just really has never been a well-run organisation. Sooo many examples... the club's history is littered with them. Such poorly administered organisations never do particularly well.

I'm a locked in member, because I'm the kind of flog who doesn't change teams... but jeez it's been hard as a supporter, particularly as someone who started following around 1973.... lots of bad, bad years. Alan Jeans once said that the off-field side is what kills the Saints. Yep.

If I hear they're getting bailed out more, and a club leader says he "doesn't know" how much they're getting, relative to others, it is either: them lying and hoping naïve people believe it; them trying smoke and mirrors as distraction/diversion tactic just to placate people from inside or outside the club who ask questions; or them being incompetent. Take your pick, none sound good. But all sound very St. Kilda-ish.

I'm 54, never seen a Saints flag in my lifetime. Dunno if I ever will. And, if the Saints moved interstate (like what happened to the old Fitzroy being forced to Brisbane), I'm one of those who'd say it's not the same club, and I wouldn't follow them. I hate to see any of the original clubs forced to close - still resentful over what they did to Fitzroy.
Click to expand...

Great post.

Reckon folks like you should be taking a bit more of a stand over what is happening down there.
 
Stabby McGee said:
Balls you do. You just hope that someone blames the iceberg while the band plays nearer to god than the as you shuffle deck chairs on the titanic
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Sorry, can you rephrase this. I don't understand
 
SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay said:
Great post.

Reckon folks like you should be taking a bit more of a stand over what is happening down there.
Click to expand...
Why is it a great post?

Who on earth would you want to work at an AFL football club, if you're successful?

AFL clubs are a shitshow made up of very underwhelming professionals that generally have no experience outside of the footy bubble.

I can't think of many, if any, examples of serious corporate professionals joining AFL clubs! WTF would you?


Secondly, the naive sentence is the only relevant and accurate part. The AFL are running St Kilda. Same as all clubs. Some more than others obviously, and in different ways.
If anyone thinks that it matters one bit what Finnis says in an interview about St Kilda's finances, they're most certainly naive.


If this thread is about what St Kilda did or didn't do 40-100 years ago - then who gives a s**t?


It's my opinion that most clubs simply can't survive 'on their own'. There just isn't the market for it. AFL clubs are not good business.
They're not for profit, they rely on volunteers to operate and their product is selling hope and entertainment to desperate and deluded customers.

Considering you can get it for free anyway, it's literally like selling ice to Eskimos!

The big clubs that are cashed up, would not be cashed up if the sport didn't provide them the national exposure that they get. The big clubs need a big national comp in order to be big clubs. The AFL need a big national comp to exist - this means they need the small clubs. They don't prop them up to be nice, they prop them up because they need them. It's generates them money - not costs them money.

The small clubs simply aren't viable on their own. There's no shame in that, as per above. Supporters largely haven't changed since clubs were created 100 odd years ago. There's a certain supporter demographic attached to suburban clubs. The big clubs in Vic were always big clubs with big supporter bases, due to the location they were in. The small clubs have funnily enough, always been small. South, Fitzroy, St Kilda, North, Bulldogs. You don't just find new supporters on a scale large enough to change this. People don't change teams much, few adults just start following footy and financially support a team, and most kids follow who their parents follow. Aside from immigrants, whom not all will even follow the AFL, I just don't know where these new supporters are supposed to come from? And, why on earth would they all choose one small club instead of who their parents follow or a big club that their mates barrack for?

The idea of building a huge supporter base in a few years is folly. I don't know where Saints fans think ll these new fans and members will come from.

The supporters you have now, and the ratio compared to other clubs, isn't going to change all that much. Not for 100 years anyway.

The key is getting the existing ones to cough up. And this is why I think certain clubs will never be 'big'. No matter what. Melbourne and St Kilda fans, just don't give a s**t like some other fans do. They have other important s**t to do with their lives, aside from the footy. The same can't be said for plenty of Richmond, Essendon and Collingwood fans. The average fan for those clubs is a tragic battler with nothing else going on. Footy is their life.

Although St Kilda has a relatively decent supporter base, I just don't think most of them could be ****ed with the footy. As per that Roy Morgan thing earlier, the best 'supporter to member' ratio is 20%. St Kilda are at 16%. Even if they increase that to 25% (which would be 5% higher than anyone else so is incredibly unlikely) they'd still only have about 60k members which is just only in the top half of the league.



This concept of getting rid of a club because the AFL has to give them money is just perplexing. The hit to all clubs if the comp shrunk, would be far, far more than the hit that they get by the AFL supporting clubs to survive. Less games, less exposure, up to 300000 less customers for the sport. If one club went, other 'small' clubs would very soon follow due to the reduction in revenue. Once the small clubs go, the big clubs find themselves in a small comp. They wouldn't be big clubs for long.

The only issue for any club is if the AFL ever get to a point where they feel they can generate more revenue than they will lose by getting rid of an existing club. If they think they can pop up a new club and it will generate more revenue for the league in the long term than keeping an existing club, then they'll pull the trigger. But that means this new club would need come up with 300000 supporters, 16% of which will need to pay up as members, and get 30000 people to watch them every week. It would need to ensure that a good chunk of these new supporters are rusted on for 60 years, and don't come and go with the times.

I think that's really unlikely. Where is this market??




It's a really odd thread this.
 
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Sainter3and7 said:
Going back to someone's post about how many millions are used to bail out St Kilda, I once had a serious discussion with some St Kilda followers who were very successful in their fields (internationally successful). I said, "If the Saints offered you more money than you're on now, would you quit your job and take it?" and not one of them said yes. They all said the off-field instability/unpredictability of the administration of the club (not the right words, but I can't think of the one) means that you'd really have no job security. Just really has never been a well-run organisation. Sooo many examples... the club's history is littered with them. Such poorly administered organisations never do particularly well.

I'm a locked in member, because I'm the kind of flog who doesn't change teams... but jeez it's been hard as a supporter, particularly as someone who started following around 1973.... lots of bad, bad years. Alan Jeans once said that the off-field side is what kills the Saints. Yep.

If I hear they're getting bailed out more, and a club leader says he "doesn't know" how much they're getting, relative to others, it is either: them lying and hoping naïve people believe it; them trying smoke and mirrors as distraction/diversion tactic just to placate people from inside or outside the club who ask questions; or them being incompetent. Take your pick, none sound good. But all sound very St. Kilda-ish.

I'm 54, never seen a Saints flag in my lifetime. Dunno if I ever will. And, if the Saints moved interstate (like what happened to the old Fitzroy being forced to Brisbane), I'm one of those who'd say it's not the same club, and I wouldn't follow them. I hate to see any of the original clubs forced to close - still resentful over what they did to Fitzroy.
Click to expand...
You clearly weren't talking to Bassat. What an odd question to ask an international successful businessman! What club poaches an Intl businessman, who would earn over 10m a year, with a greater salary? Job security? It's the AFL - there is no job security for paid admin. Such a bizarre post.
 
KingsRansom said:
Much like the western suburbs with the dogs, Tullamarine area for bombers, south East Melbourne for hawks, demons with city, its a huge area and demographic. Tigers, Carlton, Collingwood are not bug areas, but are hugely profitable.

North melbourne consists of a tiny supporter base, in a tiny location that is being redeveloped for maximum population growth. There won't be an oval there in the next decade I wouldn't think.

You can talk about debt til the cows come home, but even if North aren't in debt, they aren't moving the wheels forward either. They will be bottom four this year and I would assume the next few as well.

Not a good sign for them, especially if Tasmania desperately want a team, but the AFL don't want to expand to more teams. Saints are on the up at the right time it seems, that and our assets and demographic has them out of the danger zone. Plus the fairytale of a second flag helps as well.

Unfortunately, North have no numbers, no area and no assets, therefore would piss off alot less people if they moved.
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You sound like SimpkinBytheDockofKIlda
 
Sainter3and7 said:
Going back to someone's post about how many millions are used to bail out St Kilda, I once had a serious discussion with some St Kilda followers who were very successful in their fields (internationally successful). I said, "If the Saints offered you more money than you're on now, would you quit your job and take it?" and not one of them said yes. They all said the off-field instability/unpredictability of the administration of the club (not the right words, but I can't think of the one) means that you'd really have no job security. Just really has never been a well-run organisation. Sooo many examples... the club's history is littered with them. Such poorly administered organisations never do particularly well.

I'm a locked in member, because I'm the kind of flog who doesn't change teams... but jeez it's been hard as a supporter, particularly as someone who started following around 1973.... lots of bad, bad years. Alan Jeans once said that the off-field side is what kills the Saints. Yep.
Click to expand...
I've always had some admiration for St Kilda fans, sticking by their club despite precious little success to celebrate in their lifetimes.
 
Murraj1966 said:
If your club only matters to you based on it's number of victories why does anyone support anyone other than Carlton or Essendon?
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I think it's pretty clear that every club has more members and higher attendances when they do well on-field, not so much when they've been in a long slump.
 
SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay said:
Try me.
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Ok. I think you are a troll that revels in the misfortune of other teams hoping nobody notices that yours is a basket case. You won two flags based on having the great man at the helm, and the ten year rule, and two (shoulda been 3+, but anyway) on the back of Sydney giving you Carey for nothing. Other than that you have a nothing history. Now as you are struggling hugely twats like you point fingers at other clubs hoping nobody looks at you.

Now I wish no ill on any club, especially Victorian ones, but I find you the lowest type of football fan. So if you do end up in tassie I’ll commiserate with my kanga mates but you... I’ll laugh. And really hope it burns

Is that rephrased enough?
 
Stabby McGee said:
Ok. I think you are a troll that revels in the misfortune of other teams hoping nobody notices that yours is a basket case. You won two flags based on having the great man at the helm, and the ten year rule, and two (shoulda been 3+, but anyway) on the back of Sydney giving you Carey for nothing. Other than that you have a nothing history. Now as you are struggling hugely twats like you point fingers at other clubs hoping nobody looks at you.

Now I wish no ill on any club, especially Victorian ones, but I find you the lowest type of football fan. So if you do end up in tassie I’ll commiserate with my kanga mates but you... I’ll laugh. And really hope it burns

Is that rephrased enough?
Click to expand...

tenor-13.gif
 
Stabby McGee said:
Ok. I think you are a troll that revels in the misfortune of other teams hoping nobody notices that yours is a basket case. You won two flags based on having the great man at the helm, and the ten year rule, and two (shoulda been 3+, but anyway) on the back of Sydney giving you Carey for nothing. Other than that you have a nothing history. Now as you are struggling hugely twats like you point fingers at other clubs hoping nobody looks at you.

Now I wish no ill on any club, especially Victorian ones, but I find you the lowest type of football fan. So if you do end up in tassie I’ll commiserate with my kanga mates but you... I’ll laugh. And really hope it burns

Is that rephrased enough?
Click to expand...

/thread
 
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