Tom Boyd vs. Jesse Hogan

[Some Idiot]

Hogan looks ready for AFL football.
Questionable as to whether Boyd should be playing at this level yet. I'd be tempted to let him get some proper conditioning first

 

[Bobby_]

No disrespect to Boyd, but Hogan showed on debut that he's the better player. His 15 possessions were superior to Boyd's highest tally of 11 and his 7 marks (4 contested) were superior to Boyd's biggest haul of 4. Also, Boyd doesn't split packs like Hogan.

Facts are facts.

Not many big blokes dominate the game immediately though. What is Hogan in comparison to Boyd, 195cm/97kg vs 201cm/104kg? That is a considerable size difference as it's virtually a key forward vs ruckman.

I think both will take a while to get going myself. Even though Hogan was good yesterday, he'll be fairly inconsistent for a couple of years before both blokes really start to hit their straps in their early 20's.
Far too soon to start calling who is the better player at this stage.

 

[Igloo]

Ugh, this isn't going to be one of those threads that are bumped every week, is it? They'll both have days where they're on and days where they're off this year.

 

[Trav 20]

Not many big blokes dominate the game immediately though. What is Hogan in comparison to Boyd, 195cm/97kg vs 201cm/104kg? That is a considerable size difference as it's virtually a key forward vs ruckman.

I think both will take a while to get going myself. Even though Hogan was good yesterday, he'll be fairly inconsistent for a couple of years before both blokes really start to hit their straps in their early 20's.
Far too soon to start calling who is the better player at this stage.

One of the reasons I was confident Boyd would never be as dominant as Hogan are the stats you quoted. I've never seen a dominant 200cm forward, save for Salmon for about a year in a different era.

Hogan will dominate games because of his tank, competitiveness, mobility and running patterns. Hogan will be very consistent very early.

Boyd is years away from delivering.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

No disrespect to Boyd, but Hogan showed on debut that he's the better player. His 15 possessions were superior to Boyd's highest tally of 11 and his 7 marks (4 contested) were superior to Boyd's biggest haul of 4. Also, Boyd doesn't split packs like Hogan.

Facts are facts.

Facts are facts. Saying a player is better because of one game is not a fact. If you watched Jason Tutts debut game you would have said he was better than Chris Judd

It will be a long time before we know who the better player is.

 

[Trav 20]

Facts are facts. Saying a player is better because of one game is not a fact.

I accept your point. But Hogan's game was merely a continuation of his form at Casey 2 years ago when at 18 he won the B&F and was the youngest player in the team.

In reality, the players are chalk and cheese in the way they play and shouldn't be compared.

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

Boyd cause it rhymes with Lloyd..

 

[Trav 20]

I first saw Hogan when he dominated as a junior in 2012. I was desperate for Melbourne to bid in the mini draft before they declared their hand.

I then saw an 18 year old dominate men in 2013 and go on to win Casey's B&F from 13 games as the youngest player in the team.

He debuts a year late due to injury and performs exactly as expected with 15 possessions, 7 marks (4 contested), goals, and crashed packs, including one split like tenpins.

And predictably flogs come on here and say "it's only one game". How can you post on a fan footy website and yet be so clueless about players and the game ?

 

[Demonated]

I first saw Hogan when he dominated as a junior in 2012. I was desperate for Melbourne to bid in the mini draft before they declared their hand.

I then saw an 18 year old dominate men in 2013 and go on to win Casey's B&F from 13 games as the youngest player in the team.

He debuts a year late due to injury and performs exactly as expected with 15 possessions, 7 marks (4 contested), goals, and crashed packs, including one split like tenpins.

And predictably flogs come on here and say "it's only one game". How can you post on a fan footy website and yet be so clueless about players and the game ?

Mate I'm as excited about Hogan as I have ever been about a player. Easily the greatest talent to walk through the MFC doors since the Ox, perhaps even since Flower. However, he is going to have down days against strong teams where we can't get him the ball and he can't get separation from defenders. He will have sub 10 possession 0 goal games this year I'm sure of it. He will also be influential and play beyond his years like he did against GC some weeks too. At the end of the day it is only 1 game, I doubt he averages 2 goals and 4 contested marks through the season.

He straightened us up on the weekend and crashed a few packs which I didn't expect him to do just yet so he may well exceed expectations straight away and that would be a lovely bonus. Does seem to have a lot of presence for someone with no AFL games under the belt.

 

[timtamWB]

Mate I'm as excited about Hogan as I have ever been about a player. Easily the greatest talent to walk through the MFC doors since the Ox, perhaps even since Flower. However, he is going to have down days against strong teams where we can't get him the ball and he can't get separation from defenders. He will have sub 10 possession 0 goal games this year I'm sure of it. He will also be influential and play beyond his years like he did against GC some weeks too. At the end of the day it is only 1 game, I doubt he averages 2 goals and 4 contested marks through the season.

He straightened us up on the weekend and crashed a few packs which I didn't expect him to do just yet so he may well exceed expectations straight away and that would be a lovely bonus. Does seem to have a lot of presence for someone with no AFL games under the belt.

Could this be... a measured post without bias on the polls board? Hallelujah!

You're exactly right. I'm staying out of the Boyd vs Hogan debate because it will just turn into a shitfight, but it's nice to see someone that isn't an idiot on here.

Hogan looks the goods. But he's not a superstar right now, even though he did play a great game on the weekend. But I'm hoping against all hope that if there is a game where Hogan gets 5 posessions, no shots on goal and gets subbed off, and in the same weekend Boyd kicks 5, that Dogs supporters don't come in here talking shit about Boyd.

They're young KPF's, both will have up and down days. It just so happens that round 1 was an up day for Hogan, and a meh day for Boyd. Not down, just not that great. Structure wise, he helped a lot though.

 

[Demonated]

Could this be... a measured post without bias on the polls board? Hallelujah!

You're exactly right. I'm staying out of the Boyd vs Hogan debate because it will just turn into a shitfight, but it's nice to see someone that isn't an idiot on here.

Hogan looks the goods. But he's not a superstar right now, even though he did play a great game on the weekend. But I'm hoping against all hope that if there is a game where Hogan gets 5 posessions, no shots on goal and gets subbed off, and in the same weekend Boyd kicks 5, that Dogs supporters don't come in here talking shit about Boyd.

They're young KPF's, both will have up and down days. It just so happens that round 1 was an up day for Hogan, and a meh day for Boyd. Not down, just not that great. Structure wise, he helped a lot though.

It's nice to have a measured reply. Yeah I'm going to try and stay out of the debate I don't see it going anywhere. There are going to be days where either one will find themselves possibly matched up on a Talia, Rance, etc. and possibly lose every single one-on-one and I think it's unrealistic for dogs/demons supporters to expect anything else from them. They both provided structure that didn't exist in our teams last year and if this helps contribute to the wins, it'll be great. The real rewards will hopefully come in 2-3 years when they can compete with the best and come out on top.

 

[Trav 20]

Mate I'm as excited about Hogan as I have ever been about a player. Easily the greatest talent to walk through the MFC doors since the Ox, perhaps even since Flower. However, he is going to have down days against strong teams where we can't get him the ball and he can't get separation from defenders. He will have sub 10 possession 0 goal games this year I'm sure of it. He will also be influential and play beyond his years like he did against GC some weeks too. At the end of the day it is only 1 game, I doubt he averages 2 goals and 4 contested marks through the season.

He straightened us up on the weekend and crashed a few packs which I didn't expect him to do just yet so he may well exceed expectations straight away and that would be a lovely bonus. Does seem to have a lot of presence for someone with no AFL games under the belt.

I don't disagree. My expectations are firmly in check, although I do believe he'll be very good very quickly, as in next year.

 

[Demonated]

I don't disagree. My expectations are firmly in check, although I do believe he'll be very good very quickly, as in next year.

Let's hope so! I think he will start to see the #1 opposition defenders quite soon as Dawes was never a great mark or goalkicker against 2nd defenders so it may be a baptism of fire. At the very least he has the aggression so we know he will at worst give it his best effort.

 

[Mofra]

We haven't had a genuine tall forward for many, many years. On the weekend as a kid we had established players roving the spillages off him. He gave us goals beyond the stat sheet because of his competition and presence.

How good Hogan gets (I'm expecting an A grader) bears no difference upon how happy I am we finally have a genuine no 1 tall forward who has already done wonders for our structure, even though he's years away from being developed.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

We haven't had a genuine tall forward for many, many years. On the weekend as a kid we had established players roving the spillages off him. He gave us goals beyond the stat sheet because of his competition and presence.

How good Hogan gets (I'm expecting an A grader) bears no difference upon how happy I am we finally have a genuine no 1 tall forward who has already done wonders for our structure, even though he's years away from being developed.

Fantastic having a guy bowling defenders over and creating chances. I haven't seen much of Boyd yet but Hogan would be a positive even if he had Dawes' hands with the power he brings to contests. The Dogs have the talent around Boyd to really do damage if he's doing this kind of stuff:

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Fantastic having a guy bowling defenders over and creating chances. I haven't seen much of Boyd yet but Hogan would be a positive even if he had Dawes' hands with the power he brings to contests. The Dogs have the talent around Boyd to really do damage if he's doing this kind of stuff:

Love how he's straight up after knocking them down like bowling pins, presenting and blocking for Newton.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Love how he's straight up after knocking them down like bowling pins, presenting and blocking for Newton.

I love that he was consistently top 5 in our 3km time trials all preseason. Kids got game

 

[Trav 20]

Fantastic having a guy bowling defenders over and creating chances. I haven't seen much of Boyd yet but Hogan would be a positive even if he had Dawes' hands with the power he brings to contests. The Dogs have the talent around Boyd to really do damage if he's doing this kind of stuff:

I love the behind the goal footage of that split pack.

 

[LBJ6]

I am erect.

 

[Trav 20]

With 3 games to go in round 2 Hogan is presently leading the competition in contested marks.

Not bad from a young key forward just starting his career.

 

[scalesofjustice]

A couple of the marks Hogan took on the weekend were incredible. The sort of marks a kid that just turned 20 should not be taking.

Just sheer arrogance, in the best possible way.

 

[inflames1919]

Hogan is a raging bull. Love his work rate and aggression. Great to see him make an immediate impact.

Boyd will take time, he's a massive unit. I can see a lot of people becoming impatient with him but just needs a few pre seasons and we will all see what he is capable of.

 

[detox]

Rule #1 in footy - KPF take time. Even Judging them both in 3 years you wont really know.

One thing I am concerned out re Boyd is the fact that he appears a bit slow. So far in the game we have not seen many successful 200cm forwards, and most of the gun forwards have been in the 192-197 cm range, usually with a fast lead. It is much easier to defend a high ball than a forward who can torch a defender on the lead / is good off the deck. I guess Joe Daniher is going to be a success and he is of similar size..

I am confident that he could make an exceptional ruck/forward though, like a kurt Tippett type or a more dominant David Hale type player.

Can any dogs fans enlighten me here, whats Boyds speed like and whats he like at ground level, these are my own queries?

As for Hogan, there is just no way that this guy is not going to end up one of the premier forwards. For a KPF who has played 3 games, he is about as good as I have ever seen. Splits packs, Aggressive and already clunking marks. Phenomenal young talent.

 

[Dazb86]

Rule #1 in footy - KPF take time. Even Judging them both in 3 years you wont really know.

One thing I am concerned out re Boyd is the fact that he appears a bit slow. So far in the game we have not seen many successful 200cm forwards, and most of the gun forwards have been in the 192-197 cm range, usually with a fast lead. It is much easier to defend a high ball than a forward who can torch a defender on the lead / is good off the deck. I guess Joe Daniher is going to be a success and he is of similar size..

I am confident that he could make an exceptional ruck/forward though, like a kurt Tippett type or a more dominant David Hale type player.

Can any dogs fans enlighten me here, whats Boyds speed like and whats he like at ground level, these are my own queries?

As for Hogan, there is just no way that this guy is not going to end up one of the premier forwards. For a KPF who has played 3 games, he is about as good as I have ever seen. Splits packs, Aggressive and already clunking marks. Phenomenal young talent.

His pace is not blistering but it's good enough to get a metre on his opponent which given his size is all he really needs (I can see plenty of free kicks for chopping the arms given to him over the years). What's really letting him down is his tank. He was our worst endurance runner when he came to us but has improved a little bit and lost a bit of weight. Plenty of improvement to go there. He always looks buggered getting around the ground at the moment and probably isn't ready for AFL footy. Off the deck he's very good for a 200cm player but I can't see him ever being like Stringer for example.

His disposal by foot is excellent but his handballing needs some work.

I've got a few knocks on him at the moment. He's not leading anywhere near enough which is probably related to fitness more than anything and he hasn't really shown too much aggression around the ground. That being said he has provided us with a good target and has bought the ball to ground and kept his feet in most of the contests I've seen him involved in.

 

[doggies ftw]

His pace is not blistering but it's good enough to get a metre on his opponent which given his size is all he really needs (I can see plenty of free kicks for chopping the arms given to him over the years). What's really letting him down is his tank. He was our worst endurance runner when he came to us but has improved a little bit and lost a bit of weight. Plenty of improvement to go there. He always looks buggered getting around the ground at the moment and probably isn't ready for AFL footy. Off the deck he's very good for a 200cm player but I can't see him ever being like Stringer for example.

His disposal by foot is excellent but his handballing needs some work.

I've got a few knocks on him at the moment. He's not leading anywhere near enough which is probably related to fitness more than anything and he hasn't really shown too much aggression around the ground. That being said he has provided us with a good target and has bought the ball to ground and kept his feet in most of the contests I've seen him involved in.

Sunday was the first time he hasn't looked absolutely buggered every time he gets to the ball which is a good sign. Actually thought he showed a bit of toe on a few occasions. I actually think his handballing through traffic has been pretty good although he made a few mistakes on sunday in that regard. He's quite good at ground level for a guy his size. He's actually a very complete player as I really cant see any real flaws in his game. Agree he needs to present more and not be afraid to crash a pack though. For a guy his size he can do some serious damage. And at the moment he just really wants to stand and wrestle with the defenders which in the future he will be quite capable of doing and being to strong for just about any defender in the league really but he's just not ready to do that yet. If he got on his bike a bit more he'd get the nice easy ones and like you said quite a few free kicks.