Free Agency Tom De Koning - Joins St Kilda as an RFA, Carlton get Band 1 compensation (Pick 9)

[Jeremias]

This thread might be going for a while. Please respect board rules and each other.

As a starting point, let's leave any references to 'culture' at the door.

Thread bans and infractions will be handed out as necessary.

Thanks.

 

[stavro#4]

We will see

He wants to stay at Carlton. No one is disputing that. But you need to be realistic in what it’s going to take instead of believing he will take good faith less money - because you are that close to a flag.

Your not.

 

[Forty3]

Sure.

But you’re implying the TDK would prefer a Stkilda offer at 1.7m vs a Carlton offer at 1.7m.

If you match. He is staying.

Which is why if it comes down to it, unless you can get him on a deal that is somewhat cap friendly for you - in the scheme of things. You won’t be matching anything.

St Kilda isn’t going to be pissing away assets if you are matching at 1.7m.

We will have those assets ready to go for the likes of Bergman and Aleer.

You are kind of missing the point of what I am saying.

I'm implying that TDK would prefer to stay at Carlton but cannot get 1.7m at Carlton, so he has to decide what the figure is he is happy to lose out on to stay. Which is a difficult thing to quantify.

The second part of my point is, if he does decide that the difference in what we can realistically pay, him whilst maintaining some sort of list management strategy, is to far apart and he takes the offer. Then Carlton will need to decide whether they are happy with the compensation pick or not.

If they are not, but they know he's made his mind up to leave, which they will, because he has a very positive relationship with the Club, Carlton will have the ability to match the offer in theory and take it to trade. St Kilda cannot remove their offer if Carlton match it, so then it will be done as a trade or he risks the draft. So we would only match on the knowledge that it would be for a trade. He's not going to leave the club in a position that they match and say thank you and stays.

Obviously it wouldn't be what SOS wants, but if you are willing to offer a player that contact and he accepts, you have an obligation to do everything in your power to see he gets to your club.

As it stands I am not suggesting he's going or staying, and if our current form doesn't improve then potentially we would accept pick 1 as fair compensation.

But as with Battle last year, if the Hawks offer wasn't going to trigger band 1 compensation, you would have matched it.

So in this case, if Carlton get to the end of the season, Tom decides he's leaving, and Carlton finish 10th, it's likely that the Club will not feel like pick 8, which will not be the 8th best player in the draft is fair enough compensation for the highest paid player in the history of the competition. As such, just like GWS did with Cameron, they will consider matching to get a trade that is closer to what he is worth. It won't be enough, but it will be closer. Because not only will Carlton want to be fairly remunerated, they will also have a 1.1-1.3M space opening up in their salary cap, which they won't want to spend on a free agent as it will compromise the compensation that already would be under market value.

It's all unknown at the moment anyway, I hope this helps you to see that we are not really arguing the same thing.

 

[stavro#4]

You are kind of missing the point of what I am saying.

I'm implying that TDK would prefer to stay at Carlton but cannot get 1.7m at Carlton, so he has to decide what the figure is he is happy to lose out on to stay. Which is a difficult thing to quantify.

The second part of my point is, if he does decide that the difference in what we can realistically pay, him whilst maintaining some sort of list management strategy, is to far apart and he takes the offer. Then Carlton will need to decide whether they are happy with the compensation pick or not.

If they are not, but they know he's made his mind up to leave, which they will, because he has a very positive relationship with the Club, Carlton will have the ability to match the offer in theory and take it to trade. St Kilda cannot remove their offer if Carlton match it, so then it will be done as a trade or he risks the draft. So we would only match on the knowledge that it would be for a trade. He's not going to leave the club in a position that they match and say thank you and stays.

Obviously it wouldn't be what SOS wants, but if you are willing to offer a player that contact and he accepts, you have an obligation to do everything in your power to see he gets to your club.

As it stands I am not suggesting he's going or staying, and if our current form doesn't improve then potentially we would accept pick 1 as fair compensation.

But as with Battle last year, if the Hawks offer wasn't going to trigger band 1 compensation, you would have matched it.

So in this case, if Carlton get to the end of the season, Tom decides he's leaving, and Carlton finish 10th, it's likely that the Club will not feel like pick 8, which will not be the 8th best player in the draft is fair enough compensation for the highest paid player in the history of the competition. As such, just like GWS did with Cameron, they will consider matching to get a trade that is closer to what he is worth. It won't be enough, but it will be closer. Because not only will Carlton want to be fairly remunerated, they will also have a 1.1-1.3M space opening up in their salary cap, which they won't want to spend on a free agent as it will compromise the compensation that already would be under market value.

It's all unknown at the moment anyway, I hope this helps you to see that we are not really arguing the same thing.

The part I’m challenging here is that once you match an offer it doesn’t lock us into making a trade that you agree to.

We have already proven in both Free agency with Brad crouch we will walk away if someone matches and we have proved with a contracted Kemp that we won’t be trading unrealistic draft assets in our eyes.

And SOS whilst at Carlton has already proven to walk players to the PSD.

It won’t happen the way you are predicting. You’ll either pay the amount required to keep him or take band 1

 

[PezzDogg95]

The part I’m challenging here is that once you match an offer it doesn’t lock us into making a trade that you agree to.

We have already proven in both Free agency with Brad crouch we will walk away if someone matches and we have proved with a contracted Kemp that we won’t be trading unrealistic draft assets in our eyes.

And SOS whilst at Carlton has already proven to walk players to the PSD.

It won’t happen the way you are predicting. You’ll either pay the amount required to keep him or take band 1

If you offer a player the richest contract in AFL history, have them agree to join your club, but then walk away and leave them at the altar by not trading for them, you will burn every player manager in the industry and you will never attract a star or even a mid-tier player for a very very very long time.

That is not how business is done.

P.S. I hope he stays

 

[stavro#4]

If you offer a player the richest contract in AFL history, have them agree to join your club, but then walk away and leave them at the altar by not trading for them, you will burn every player manager in the industry and you will never attract a star or even a mid-tier player for a very very very long time.

That is not how business is done.

P.S. I hope he stays

Or we just got him paid 1.7m and he is staying at the club he wants to be at.

Both sides of the story can be true. Just like a player can agree and back out.

It’s fallacy that entire belief that we will burn ourselves to every player and his agent. Secondly it would have been one of the many topics covered including walking to the PSD as SOS mentioned you had done with Martin and his manager.

 

[Farm Boy]

I’m hearing it’s more than 1.7m


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Forty3]

The part I’m challenging here is that once you match an offer it doesn’t lock us into making a trade that you agree to.

We have already proven in both Free agency with Brad crouch we will walk away if someone matches and we have proved with a contracted Kemp that we won’t be trading unrealistic draft assets in our eyes.

And SOS whilst at Carlton has already proven to walk players to the PSD.

It won’t happen the way you are predicting. You’ll either pay the amount required to keep him or take band 1

Your examples are not relevant.

SOS offered GC 2 x 2nd picks for an out of contact player. Not a free agent.

Crows were never going to match Crouch as they wanted him out of the club for many reasons.

An RFA cannot go to the PSD and the saints can’t walk away from the contract if it’s been accepted and submitted to the AFL.
Carlton then have 3 days to match, but the saints can’t walk away if it is matched.

 

[stavro#4]

Your examples are not relevant.

SOS offered GC 2 x 2nd picks for an out of contact player. Not a free agent.

Crows were never going to match Crouch as they wanted him out of the club for many reasons.

An RFA cannot go to the PSD and the saints can’t walk away from the contract if it’s been accepted and submitted to the AFL.
Carlton then have 3 days to match, but the saints can’t walk away if it is matched.

If he wants to come to us. We have to agree on a trade. It’s never been done before but that’s not a binding scenario if we can’t do that.

Adelaide threatened to match. We told them we would walk away.

 

[Rich01]

Stocker cost absolutely nothing so it's hardly the end of the world if our kids do go past him. He's very good depth if nothing else.

Agree, every team needs depth.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Your examples are not relevant.

SOS offered GC 2 x 2nd picks for an out of contact player. Not a free agent.

Crows were never going to match Crouch as they wanted him out of the club for many reasons.

An RFA cannot go to the PSD and the saints can’t walk away from the contract if it’s been accepted and submitted to the AFL.
Carlton then have 3 days to match, but the saints can’t walk away if it is matched.

Personally I'd love to see the Saints offer the biggest contract in history only to have it matched and forced to do a trade. 2025, 2026 and 2027 first rounders seem like a fair deal for the highest paid player in the comp!

I'm sure SOS would really enjoy that process too! He does love a trade!

 

[stavro#4]

Personally I'd love to see the Saints offer the biggest contract in history only to have it matched and forced to do a trade. 2025, 2026 and 2027 first rounders seem like a fair deal for the highest paid player in the comp!

I'm sure SOS would really enjoy that process too! He does love a trade!

Oh boy.

Setting yourself up for disappointment if he leaves.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Oh boy.

Setting yourself up for disappointment if he leaves.

Setting yourself up for disappointment if he stays

 

[stavro#4]

Setting yourself up for disappointment if he stays

Not at all.

This isn’t our first free agent chase

 

[THE_GUN]

Just a bit of info i got tonight after discussing this with the mate that gave me the news initially

It might not be a 7 year deal , St Kilda are actually considering making it a 5 year deal initially as they intend to pay most of the cash in the first 3/4 years of the deal. Could be a 5 year $10 mil deal thats tables with a further extension later on $1 mil a year or possibly more depending on where the cap might be in the future.

 

[Forty3]

If he wants to come to us. We have to agree on a trade. It’s never been done before but that’s not a binding scenario if we can’t do that.

Adelaide threatened to match. We told them we would walk away.

Well it has happened before. Jeremy Cameron, exercised his right to restricted free agency, GWS match bid, trade was made.

In regards to Crouch, that happened before the bid was signed and submitted, once it has been signed and matched the only way you can walk away is if you refuse to trade and try your luck getting him through the Draft.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Just a bit of info i got tonight after discussing this with the mate that have me the news initially

It might not be a 7 year deal , St Kilda are actually considering making it a 5 year deal initially as they intend to pay most of the cash in the first 3/4 years of the deal. Could be a 5 year $10 mil deal thats tables with a further extension later on $1 mil a year or possibly more depending on where the cap might be in the future.

2 Mil a year for a ruck. Lmao.

 

[THE_GUN]

2 Mil a year for a ruck. Lmao.

Who knows

Just posting what i was told mate

 

[stavro#4]

Well it has happened before. Jeremy Cameron, exercised his right to restricted free agency, GWS match bid, trade was made.

In regards to Crouch, that happened before the bid was signed and submitted, once it has been signed and matched the only way you can walk away is if you refuse to trade and try your luck getting him through the Draft.

No it’s never been done that a club pulls out after a bid has been matched - which is the point I’m saying we probably will if you think we are going to pay stupid draft assets. The allure is in the RFA status.

Again, he wants to be at Carlton. If you’re matching the offer he will stay. I highly extremely doubt the funny business of you matching a 1.7m salary bid - with a wink and a handshake from TDK that it’s just for better collateral.

Like the bloke wants to stay at Carlton. Why would he care for that.

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

Juddy should be able to help him out with a role at visy.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

No it’s never been done that a club pulls out after a bid has been matched - which is the point I’m saying we probably will if you think we are going to pay stupid draft assets. The allure is in the RFA status.

Again, he wants to be at Carlton. If you’re matching the offer he will stay. I highly extremely doubt the funny business of you matching a 1.7m salary bid - with a wink and a handshake from TDK that it’s just for better collateral.

Like the bloke wants to stay at Carlton. Why would he care for that.

How do you think it would go down in player management and AFLPA circles if old bitter SOS tried pulling a runner at the trade table when Carlton matched and forced it to a trade after courting him for a year and offering him the largest contract in history?

 

[EconomicDecline]

But as with Battle last year, if the Hawks offer wasn't going to trigger band 1 compensation, you would have matched it.

Battle was an unrestricted free agent. It was reported at the time that he went to Hawthorn on less than the Saints offer.

 

[stavro#4]

How do you think it would go down in player management and AFLPA circles if old bitter SOS tried pulling a runner at the trade table when Carlton matched and forced it to a trade after courting him for a year and offering him the largest contract in history?

I think he wants to stay at Carlton and it will look a lot worse if you tell him you don’t want him on that contract but you are going to match for better picks

 

[projectv]

If Carlton lose their next few games, this is gonna get really spicy.

They need to keep TDK way more than we need to sign him.

 

[sexyhunk]

If Carlton lose their next few games, this is gonna get really spicy.

They need to keep TDK way more than we need to sign him.

dont forget if carlton do keep dropping the compo pick is going to get better meaning the blow of losing TDK become less and less.

 

[projectv]

dont forget if carlton do keep dropping the compo pick is going to get better meaning the blow of losing TDK become less and less.

Sure, but I'd argue TDK is worth more than one compo pick in his current form. He's their best player.