Free Agency Tom De Koning - Joins St Kilda as an RFA, Carlton get Band 1 compensation (Pick 9)

[Jeremias]

This thread might be going for a while. Please respect board rules and each other.

As a starting point, let's leave any references to 'culture' at the door.

Thread bans and infractions will be handed out as necessary.

Thanks.

 

[sexyhunk]

Sure, but I'd argue TDK is worth more than one compo pick in his current form. He's their best player.it

it will be out of carlton hands if the FA offer get up to a certain amount. is easy to say get rid of him and him to fit TDK in but whos going to take these players.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

He offered the contract to Martin but didnt pay the price and took him in the draft

If Carlton are thinking about matching just to ensure a better trade than what they will get as a free agent compo that is playing russian roulette with SOS

Carlton either up their offer to $1.5 and TDK signs and stays or he signs with StKilda for the $1.7 x 7 years deal
and Carlton just take the top 7/8 compo pick

Saints wont pay 2 x 1st rounders plus $1.7 mil

The difference with Martin was we actually offered a fair trade deal on him.
GC just decided for some reason that THIS was the deal they were going to put their foot down and demand more than what's fair.
Probably because the AFL handed them a bunch of picks and they didn't really need ours.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club has the right to match the proposed contract, arrangement, agreement or understanding in respect of the Restricted Free Agent on identical terms to the Offer in relation to each of:
(i) contract length;
(ii) base payments;
(iii) total match payment rates;
(iv) total Additional Services agreement payments;
(v) total performance incentives based on AFL awards or honours, Club best and fairest finish and matches played, but excluding Finals.
For the avoidance of doubt, incentive payments for team performance are not required to be matched by the Current Club.

So yeah, maybe not letter for letter, but in regards to years, base salary, match payments, and any additional earnings.

Not a heap of wiggle room, can't just say we will sign you for 15 years and pay you half the amount yearly, but keep paying you after you retire.

Isn't that why clubs will heavily front load an offer, like what we did with Martin?
GC might have been happy to keep Martin at circa $600k per, but couldn't match our heavily front loaded deal of around $1m for years 1&2?

 

[Daka]

TDK will be offered the biggest per year contract in AFL history. Anyone even pretending otherwise is off their rocker

Paying your ruck the big money and making him your highest paid player rarely works out.
I say good luck to the Saints if they are paying him that sort of coin.

1 million to 1.2m yes but 1.7m hell no lmao
the Saints could get 2 good players at 800k for that.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Christ, that's a horrible attempt at a list analysis.
They said Carlton have lost the ability to get players to stay. Based on what? Dow, Stocker, Carroll, Kennedy, Owies, Fisher, Martin, Setterfield? Kennedy's the biggest loss from that group and most people on here would have called him a spud or a B or C grade player at times.

He said TDK is 26 in July, so we'll line them up based on that, then includes Higgins who is already 26 (including him make Lachie Fogarty eligible for Blues list). He couldn't even stick to his own criteria.
Missed a bunch of players for both teams who already have a bunch of games under their belts.
Includes Elijah Hollands, but excludes his younger brother, who has more games under his belt.

This is what the real list looks like for players the same age as TDK or younger.
Yellow were included on their list, green were excluded.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

We won’t be paying 3 firsts.

If we are trading it will be no more than a single first and ultimately I reckon TDK wants to stay. So if you match he will stay.

Everyone in the whole world knows that a minimum trading start point for TDK would be 2x 1sts.
The only scenario where TDK gets 1x 1st is if he loses a leg between now and then.
Blues won't match if there's an inkling that he stays. If he wants the money it's Saints. If he wants Blues, it's less money.
Our only match will be an on paper agreement knowing that he's actually out the door. All parties will know and agree to this before it happens.
It's really not that hard to understand.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

None of that is surprising.

But if you sign TDK on 1.3-1.7m there isn’t going to be much left to do anything else and you’ll need to shed blokes who are in your best 23 today to do so.

So either way, sos is going to be thrilled. You are literally stkilda of 2008-2011 in terms of salary cap. You have most your cap invested in your 7-8 top end blokes and a crap bottom end.

Except free agency exists now and clubs can make it really tough on you.

You're telling us how Carlton's going to be hamstrung by Tom's contract, while offering him $1.7m over 7yrs...
With the minimum TPP floor that every club has to reach, there isn't a lot of wriggle room in anyone's cap from one year to the next. Anyone offering $1.7m a year is going to have issues for the length of that deal.

 

[Milanista28]

Assume they land him, whats the plan with TDK and Marshall, is it a 50/50 ruck split?

 

[stavro#4]

You're telling us how Carlton's going to be hamstrung by Tom's contract, while offering him $1.7m over 7yrs...
With the minimum TPP floor that every club has to reach, there isn't a lot of wriggle room in anyone's cap from one year to the next. Anyone offering $1.7m a year is going to have issues for the length of that deal.

Suggest you go listen to today’s Andrew Bassat interview with Whately.

Makes it clear we have plenty of room in our cap for all these players and to retain who we have now.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Sure, but I'd argue TDK is worth more than one compo pick in his current form. He's their best player.

Gee, ya think?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Assume they land him, whats the plan with TDK and Marshall, is it a 50/50 ruck split?

I imagine we'd be asking for Marshall as part of the deal if it got that far.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Suggest you go listen to today’s Andrew Bassat interview with Whately.

Makes it clear we have plenty of room in our cap for all these players and to retain who we have now.

So did Carlton.
It still hamstrings you. If a few players come on and want to chase more coin. Having a guy who is on ~$700k more than the next bloke can rub noses up the wrong way when guys start wanting a little extra.

As much as I don't want to lose him, I'd like to see how it pans out if he ends up at Saints. Contracts like this can leave a club in no man's land for a decade.
One thing's certain, he won't be getting anywhere near $1.7m at Carlton, even if we match.

 

[stavro#4]

So did Carlton.
It still hamstrings you. If a few players come on and want to chase more coin. Having a guy who is on ~$700k more than the next bloke can rub noses up the wrong way when guys start wanting a little extra.

As much as I don't want to lose him, I'd like to see how it pans out if he ends up at Saints. Contracts like this can leave a club in no man's land for a decade.
One thing's certain, he won't be getting anywhere near $1.7m at Carlton, even if we match.

How does it hamstring us if we can afford to attain TDK on those numbers and more like a Bergman and Aleer or even an LDU?

You cannot retain TDK unless you further weaken your side.

You can’t match and not pay him this rumoured 1.7m.

You can’t match and organise a new pay structure over the length of the deal. But you can’t reduce the salary overall.

 

[stavro#4]

I imagine we'd be asking for Marshall as part of the deal if it got that far.

This boggles the mind

Marshall was on SEN this morning and said if he has to play forward. No issues. He was drafted as a forward.

It’s SOS and Gubbys job to bring these guys on and they’ll make it work onfield.

He won’t be going to Carlton

This threat that you’ll match is hilarious. The bloke wants to stay. If you match he will stay.

 

[stavro#4]

Christ, that's a horrible attempt at a list analysis.
They said Carlton have lost the ability to get players to stay. Based on what? Dow, Stocker, Carroll, Kennedy, Owies, Fisher, Martin, Setterfield? Kennedy's the biggest loss from that group and most people on here would have called him a spud or a B or C grade player at times.

He said TDK is 26 in July, so we'll line them up based on that, then includes Higgins who is already 26 (including him make Lachie Fogarty eligible for Blues list). He couldn't even stick to his own criteria.
Missed a bunch of players for both teams who already have a bunch of games under their belts.
Includes Elijah Hollands, but excludes his younger brother, who has more games under his belt.

This is what the real list looks like for players the same age as TDK or younger.
Yellow were included on their list, green were excluded.
View attachment 2268535

Cowan cooper Binns Lord control and Durdin

That’s a really exciting young group.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

How does it hamstring us if we can afford to attain TDK on those numbers and more like a Bergman and Aleer or even an LDU?

You cannot retain TDK unless you further weaken your side.

You can’t match and not pay him this rumoured 1.7m.

You can’t match and organise a new pay structure over the length of the deal. But you can’t reduce the salary overall.

Things change quickly.
We had the room to keep Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, Harry, Weitering and still chase free agents.

Might be fine for the 1st year or two, but you rarely land all your targets. Then in the coming years, as you still look to add the pieces you missed on the year before, the only player available might be worth more than last years target that you missed.
Or the team underperforms and you identify more targets. Or they overperform and players coming out of contract are suddenly worth more.

We can retain Tom if he takes our best offer.
We simply won't be paying him $1.7m, even if we match. I know you seem to be struggling to understand this part of the convo, but we will only be matching if he's 100% gone.
If you think that this kind of thing hasn't been done before, or can't happen, that's on you.

 

[Jeremias]

Cowan cooper Binns Lord control and Durdin

That’s a really exciting young group.

Hmmm, not sure what this has to do with the topic?

How about we stick to TDK rather than going down the rabbit hole on a different topic on which I’m not sure you can hold your own?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Cowan cooper Binns Lord control and Durdin

That’s a really exciting young group.

You clearly don't watch them, but you've also completely missed the point.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

This boggles the mind

Marshall was on SEN this morning and said if he has to play forward. No issues. He was drafted as a forward.

It’s SOS and Gubbys job to bring these guys on and they’ll make it work onfield.

He won’t be going to Carlton

This threat that you’ll match is hilarious. The bloke wants to stay. If you match he will stay.

You really struggle with basic comprehension.
Never said Marshall would come. Just that we'd likely ask for him as part of the trade. Guarantee you the Saints would entertain that idea. They should be sacked if they don't. Would then be up to Blues and Saints to convince him to make the move. He's hardly going to say that he'd want to leave if you got Tom. There's too much water to go under the bridge before it gets to that point.

What don't you get about the matching thing?
It will be a simple convo between our list management team, Tom's agent and Tom. This is our biggest offer, we simply aren't giving you $1.7m. If that's what you want, you'll have to get it from the Saints, but we won't be letting you go for compo. We'll be matching and forcing a trade, but that offer is not on the table for you to take. You will ONLY be getting $1.7m from the Saints.
Tom and his agent will either agree on a match and trade, or take Carlton's lower offer.

 

[projectv]

Assume they land him, whats the plan with TDK and Marshall, is it a 50/50 ruck split?

Marshall was originally brought in as a forward, so I'd imagine he'd play forward a lot more.

 

[projectv]

You really struggle with basic comprehension.
Never said Marshall would come. Just that we'd likely ask for him as part of the trade. Guarantee you the Saints would entertain that idea. They should be sacked if they don't. Would then be up to Blues and Saints to convince him to make the move. He's hardly going to say that he'd want to leave if you got Tom. There's too much water to go under the bridge before it gets to that point.

What don't you get about the matching thing?
It will be a simple convo between our list management team, Tom's agent and Tom. This is our biggest offer, we simply aren't giving you $1.7m. If that's what you want, you'll have to get it from the Saints, but we won't be letting you go for compo. We'll be matching and forcing a trade, but that offer is not on the table for you to take. You will ONLY be getting $1.7m from the Saints.
Tom and his agent will either agree on a match and trade, or take Carlton's lower offer.

There won't be a trade. Carlton won't match. They can't afford to. Who are you moving on to have the cash to match an offer that might just be rejected anyway? You could end up shifting McKay and be left holding the bag paying TDK 1.7mil.

 

[sexyhunk]

There won't be a trade. Carlton won't match. They can't afford to. Who are you moving on to have the cash to match an offer that might just be rejected anyway? You could end up shifting McKay and be left holding the bag paying TDK 1.7mil.

even if they move mckay, they will pay a portion of the salary as not a lot of team just have 1 mill free space ready to be absorb by a guy getting pushed out.

 

[jh38]

You really struggle with basic comprehension.
Never said Marshall would come. Just that we'd likely ask for him as part of the trade. Guarantee you the Saints would entertain that idea. They should be sacked if they don't. Would then be up to Blues and Saints to convince him to make the move. He's hardly going to say that he'd want to leave if you got Tom. There's too much water to go under the bridge before it gets to that point.

What don't you get about the matching thing?
It will be a simple convo between our list management team, Tom's agent and Tom. This is our biggest offer, we simply aren't giving you $1.7m. If that's what you want, you'll have to get it from the Saints, but we won't be letting you go for compo. We'll be matching and forcing a trade, but that offer is not on the table for you to take. You will ONLY be getting $1.7m from the Saints.
Tom and his agent will either agree on a match and trade, or take Carlton's lower offer.

You can't match an offer without having the funds to pay for it.

 

[stavro#4]

You really struggle with basic comprehension.
Never said Marshall would come. Just that we'd likely ask for him as part of the trade. Guarantee you the Saints would entertain that idea. They should be sacked if they don't. Would then be up to Blues and Saints to convince him to make the move. He's hardly going to say that he'd want to leave if you got Tom. There's too much water to go under the bridge before it gets to that point.

What don't you get about the matching thing?
It will be a simple convo between our list management team, Tom's agent and Tom. This is our biggest offer, we simply aren't giving you $1.7m. If that's what you want, you'll have to get it from the Saints, but we won't be letting you go for compo. We'll be matching and forcing a trade, but that offer is not on the table for you to take. You will ONLY be getting $1.7m from the Saints.
Tom and his agent will either agree on a match and trade, or take Carlton's lower offer.

St Kilda want to play both.

Carlton fans can make up any narrative. Yours is now you’ll ask for Marshall and you want to guarantee me the saints will accept

There is so much straw clutching here.

There are 2 outcomes.

He stays at Carlton on more than currently offered or he joins the saints on a mammoth 1.7m as an RFA.

You won’t be trading someone like McKay. You won’t be gutting senior blokes who are in your best 23 to match a bid for a better return.

 

[marcus1232]

Along way to go on this and we have been used in the past as leverage so will be interesting watch.

Would rather we lock down NAS first on a lot of years and a lot of money