Urgent umpiring overhaul needed.

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FastLane

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I thought the umpiring in Anzac Day game was consistently inconsistent for both sides- in fact, I'd argue the Pies copped the worst of it.
Everyone focussing on last minute of game- Stevenson got a boot to the ball- so no incorrect disposal- also are chicken wing tackles actually allowed now?

Bombers got a few goals directly from rubbish frees- when they didnt look near it- Gwelfe non push in back and Baguley for holding a fist full of langdons jumper.

Tippa is clearly known by umps as a ducker - but a deserved one or 2.
Everyone pointing out some pies Holding the ball decisions late in the game- yet I saw numerous dons swung 360 or who were tackled with prior and incorrectly disposed and called play on. Heppell did this almost every time he got teh ball.

I've not seen such sooking over umpiring in a game since the GF and before that the previous Pies Bombers match.

Bombers supporters crying that someone is cheating is laughable
 

D-N-R

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So actually sitting down as full time employees and talking about interpretations would go a long way to stopping the issue where each of the 3 thinks a rule means something different. Sure a simplified set of rules would help but how do you even go about simplifying some of our rules?

NBA for example has 65 full time refs on the books that oversee 1260 regular season games so roughly 60 games each over around 7 months given 3 officials per game, they are hardly ran off their feet.

The AFL alone makes around 650mil per year that's nothing to sneeze at and they are on record as saying that the only reason the officials are not full time is because some of them make around 250k in their normal jobs and if we went full time those people would be lost, as far as reasons go that is pretty ******* dumb.
The best way to practice is to actually umpire. Looking at videos doesn't help as much as actually seeing contests from the ground.

Having all leagues with the same rules down to juniors would help also and not changing those rules incessantly.

One thing that other sports have ever Aussie rules is that their Umpires don't have to move as much. NFL from the little I've seen has overweight elderly men umpiring. Basketball has a tiny court with 2 refs. Soccer, the ref can mostly walk around. This means that a good umpire can make a career out of it and they can build experience. AFL umpiring is physically demanding and has a shelf life which makes it a hobby rather than a career.
 

dumb

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i kind of have to qualify what i say - outside of bigfooty i have no idea what the footballing public make of the umpiring. commentators make a few references to decisions but that happens every week.

you'd normally think the afl would recognise public sentiment over umpiring is starting to drown out some of the good things happening in the game, it's definitely something they like to stage-manage where possible. many rule changes are made on the back of public sentiment.
whether the supposed constant criticism results in managing public perception or the root issue itself (or both) though is another thing altogether.

i think umpires are one of the conduits for a public who don't have any recourse to complain about the game, their performance is a symptom of perceived wider afl mismanagement of how the game is played. maybe when those feelings result in crowds or tv ratings decreasing we'll see something done.
 

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tigernsw

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This is why the AFL is screwed:
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-04-27/they-were-the-correct-calls-umpire-stands-by-anzac-day-calls

Not only is the umpiring error riddled, but they stand by those decisions and refuse to accept that there is a problem. It's way too inconsistent. The umpiring department needs an overhaul.
I disagree with every single call that Ryan is backing up. He's wrong on every count and I watched them over and over.

With Stephenson - who just threw it. He's basically saying that you can throw the ball if you get tackled without prior opportunity as long as it's an attempt to get rid of it. So incorrect disposal no longer exists does it? He was holding the ball with one arm, he chose to hold it then he decided to throw it.

Crisp had prior, was tackled and got a handball away but it was far too late - holding the ball.

Tippa was at the same height when he got the ball (slightly crouched) as when Grundy tackled. It started high and stayed high. Ryan claims it started low and Tippa shrugged to make it go high.

Pendles clearly saw oncoming traffic and decided to go head first . He's a smart player and knew exactly what he was doing. He's much smarter than the umpires. Again completely wrong call.

The worst one of the lot was Hosking Elliot. Ryan is saying he clearly got a handball. Ah no he clearly missed it so it was a throw. I'm not too sure what this guy was looking at but he's seeing totally different things to reality.

To make errors is human to dismiss them and not man up to your mistakes is cowardly and stupid.

Ryan needs to go.
 

FastLane

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I disagree with every single call that Ryan is backing up. He's wrong on every count and I watched them over and over.

With Stephenson - who just threw it. He's basically saying that you can throw the ball if you get tackled without prior opportunity as long as it's an attempt to get rid of it. So incorrect disposal no longer exists does it? He was holding the ball with one arm, he chose to hold it then he decided to throw it.

Crisp had prior, was tackled and got a handball away but it was far too late - holding the ball.

Tippa was at the same height when he got the ball (slightly crouched) as when Grundy tackled. It started high and stayed high. Ryan claims it started low and Tippa shrugged to make it go high.

Pendles clearly saw oncoming traffic and decided to go head first . He's a smart player and knew exactly what he was doing. He's much smarter than the umpires. Again completely wrong call.

The worst one of the lot was Hosking Elliot. Ryan is saying he clearly got a handball. Ah no he clearly missed it so it was a throw. I'm not too sure what this guy was looking at but he's seeing totally different things to reality.

To make errors is human to dismiss them and not man up to your mistakes is cowardly and stupid.

Ryan needs to go.
wahwah wah

stephenson gets a boot to it, whilst being chicken winged with no prior
crisp- tackle slipped and he handballed
tippa- ducked - numerous others both way missed during day- he also threw the ball to daniher for dons last goal
pendles- bends over to pick up abll and gets collected by 2 dons- free every day of the week- ask alex rance
hoskin elliot- got a hand to it

be 'manly' and admit you are wrong and still offended the pies showed your team up for the frontrunners they are
 

Rob

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I disagree with every single call that Ryan is backing up. He's wrong on every count and I watched them over and over.

With Stephenson - who just threw it. He's basically saying that you can throw the ball if you get tackled without prior opportunity as long as it's an attempt to get rid of it. So incorrect disposal no longer exists does it? He was holding the ball with one arm, he chose to hold it then he decided to throw it.
Yeah, I agree it was a free. It was a throw or HTB, one or the other. Ryan should have just said "the umpire thought it was a legit handball, but on closer inspection it wasn't. Human error".

Crisp had prior, was tackled and got a handball away but it was far too late - holding the ball.
Nah, i'm on the umpire's side here. He got it out legally and well within time.

Tippa was at the same height when he got the ball (slightly crouched) as when Grundy tackled. It started high and stayed high. Ryan claims it started low and Tippa shrugged to make it go high.
Thought this was the most obvious non-free. Tippa dropped his knees *and* raised his arm. He completely caused any high contact and it should be play on every day of the week.

Pendles clearly saw oncoming traffic and decided to go head first . He's a smart player and knew exactly what he was doing. He's much smarter than the umpires. Again completely wrong call.
Yeah, probably. Players have a duty of care to themselves - he made to attempt to protect himself and he should be obligated to do so. I understand what Ryan is saying but you do need an element of common sense in umpiring to prevent players doing what Pendles did. Turn side on FFS.

The worst one of the lot was Hosking Elliot. Ryan is saying he clearly got a handball. Ah no he clearly missed it so it was a throw. I'm not too sure what this guy was looking at but he's seeing totally different things to reality.
Not sure what you're looking at here - you probably need to understand that WHE only needs to *attempt* to handball or kick as he didn't have prior. Which he clearly did by trying to throw the ball on his boot. You're saying that should be called a throw - well it never has by any umpire i've ever seen. That would have been a howler if it was called.

Of those 5, 3 were clearly correct calls, 1 clearly incorrect (the first HTB) and 1 probably incorrect. Ryan would have had more credibility saying that - we all acknowledge that umpires do make mistakes, but it doesn't do anyone any good by defending the indefensible.
 
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tigernsw

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Yeah, I agree it was a free. It was a throw or HTB, one or the other. Ryan should have just said "the umpire thought it was a legit handball, but on closer inspection it wasn't. Human error".

Let's review your reviews.

Nah, i'm on the umpire's side here. He got it out legally and well within time.

No chance HTB. He had prior and hit the ground then handballed. I agree it's marginal and 10 of those get by every game. Should be paid.


Thought this was the most obvious non-free. Tippa dropped his knees *and* raised his arm. He completely caused any high contact and it should be play on every day of the week.
Nope. The tackled started high. It was always high. I'm shocked that you can't see that. Watch the slo-mo


Yeah, probably. Players have a duty of care to themselves - he made to attempt to protect himself and he should be obligated to do so. I understand what Ryan is saying but you do need an element of common sense in umpiring to prevent players doing what Pendles did. Turn side on FFS.
Tick


Not sure what you're looking at here - you probably need to understand that WHE only needs to *attempt* to handball or kick as he didn't have prior. Which he clearly did by trying to throw the ball on his boot. You're saying that should be called a throw - well it never has by any umpire i've ever seen. That would have been a howler if it was called.

I'm not sure what you're looking at. WHE clearly had prior - clearly! He tried to palm off a tackler. He has to dispose of the ball correctly. Didn't make contact HTB without question. For Ryan to say he handballed it shows that he's making stuff up.

Of those 5, 3 were clearly correct calls, 1 clearly incorrect (the first HTB) and 1 probably incorrect. Ryan would have had more credibility saying that - we all acknowledge that umpires do make mistakes, but it doesn't do anyone any good by defending the indefensible.
Of the 5 - 4 were clearly the wrong calls and 1 was marginal - Crisp. I find it baffling for anyone to say otherwise.
 

Libba39

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Seriously, we've become such a nation of self-righteous sooks. Umpires do not win or lose your team games!!!! Are the perfect? No. Do they make mistakes? Yes.

Every game I go to the football do you know how many times I sit there listening to people yelling out "Ball!" when it blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain and a bit of football knowledge that it is clearly NOT holding the ball by ANY definition of the rules? Let's just say its well past double figures.
 

Ron The Bear

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Spot on. It's a classic example of how the umpires and MRO will justify almost anything by hiding behind words.

The AFL needs to cut the legalese and get back to what is right in practice. Regardless of such literal interpretations of the rules, the majority of footy fans do not expect or want to see decisions like these. An urgent overhaul is indeed required.
 

smeltitdeltit

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If you’re tackled to the ground with plenty of prior opportunity l. It shouldn’t matter if he eventually got a Handball out. He already had his chance to handball. They really have made rules for holding the ball just moronic. They can’t justify that
Precisely. That scenario Happens and is paid HTB every fricken game. Yet the one they let go was the correct call?
Response should be “Ok, well here’s an example of the same thing happening and the umpire paid HTB. You guys ticked that call off as correct too, so which one are you lying about??”
AFL doesn’t open itself up to that level of cross examination though and we end up here -confused and disenchanted.
 

blue harvest

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I disagree with every single call that Ryan is backing up. He's wrong on every count and I watched them over and over.

With Stephenson - who just threw it. He's basically saying that you can throw the ball if you get tackled without prior opportunity as long as it's an attempt to get rid of it. So incorrect disposal no longer exists does it? He was holding the ball with one arm, he chose to hold it then he decided to throw it.
Disagree. He threw it onto his boot.
If he threw it in another direction then you would have a point, but he was trying to kick it an did actually kick it.

Crisp had prior, was tackled and got a handball away but it was far too late - holding the ball.
Not sure about far too late. It all happened pretty quick, tackled to ground and handballed straight away, could have gone either way.

Tippa was at the same height when he got the ball (slightly crouched) as when Grundy tackled. It started high and stayed high. Ryan claims it started low and Tippa shrugged to make it go high.
Disagree, from one angle you can see it started across the upper arm. Grundy did a great job with that tackle.

Pendles clearly saw oncoming traffic and decided to go head first . He's a smart player and knew exactly what he was doing. He's much smarter than the umpires. Again completely wrong call.
Disagree. He bent over to pick up the ball, you're allowed to do that, even if you know high contact may come. Free every day of the week. When he detected imminent contact from knees he tucked his head under further - this is an instinctual reaction to protect the face. He had the choice of taking contact to the face or top of the head, he wasn't adding mayo.

The worst one of the lot was Hosking Elliot. Ryan is saying he clearly got a handball. Ah no he clearly missed it so it was a throw. I'm not too sure what this guy was looking at but he's seeing totally different things to reality.
Not clear either way if he got a handball, I'd say more likely he didn't. Hard to decide in a split second when you might not have a good view. But yeah Ryan shouldn't be saying it was a clear handball, should just say the ump thought it was a handball at the time but not really clear.

To make errors is human to dismiss them and not man up to your mistakes is cowardly and stupid.

Ryan needs to go.
He's one of the better umps.
 

damochandler

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The crisp one is mind boggling. He ran a fair distance and avoided a tackle. He got tackled and brought to the ground. That’s holding the ball. Shouldn’t matter if he handballed it
 

blue harvest

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Yeah, I agree it was a free. It was a throw or HTB, one or the other. Ryan should have just said "the umpire thought it was a legit handball, but on closer inspection it wasn't. Human error".

Not sure what you're looking at here - you probably need to understand that WHE only needs to *attempt* to handball or kick as he didn't have prior. Which he clearly did by trying to throw the ball on his boot. You're saying that should be called a throw - well it never has by any umpire i've ever seen. That would have been a howler if it was called.
Think you got the 2 htb incidents mixed up in your post.
 

Ron The Bear

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Disagree. He threw it onto his boot.
If he threw it in another direction then you would have a point, but he was trying to kick it an did actually kick it.
He was grabbed by the arm, which is effectively a perfect tackle. (Umpires generally are giving far too much leeway to the tackled player in this situation. Often the player hugs the ball into the tackler and a bounce is called. A common refrain is ‘How was he supposed to get rid of it?’ That’s not the tackler’s problem. Get it onto your boot or get pinged.)

Stephenson tries to run a few steps and is taken to ground and immobilised. That is holding the ball right there. He belatedly rolls over and tries to throw it upwards onto his boot; I don’t care whether his boot nicked the ball or not, this is incorrect disposal.

Many problems with holding the ball come back to players being given too much opportunity to dispose of the ball. They often take advantage and hang onto the ball until support arrives before trying to shovel it out. Other problems are caused by players dodging or breaking the first tackle and not being pinged as soon as the second tackle is laid.

The holding the ball rule in particular is in a dire state and defending decisions like this is not helpful.
 

JoeHawk

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Yep. Just like those atrocious decisions in R2 for Hawthorn v Bulldogs, particularly the Sicily push and the O’meara free kick reversal for a shove in the chest that happens all the time, which all combined arguably cost us the match when the game was in the balance. AFL subsequently came out and confirmed those decisions were correctly paid yet the push and shove continues to go on without penalty.

So brace yourselves for the spin those clowns will put on it this time.
What a surprise!!!! AFL have confirmed the umpiring decisions in the last quarter were correct. LOL
 
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