Review Vent thread vs Brisbane. That's all folks

[Oor Wally]

Not surprising he has no one to go to the footy with. Bitter old tosser.

When you and the others reach 60 and been supporters for over 50 years and never seen them in a grand final
you will be a grumpy old tosser as well. I have never not been a western bulldogs member and a footscray before that.Watching that shxt and expecting more over the next few years, made me for the first time thinking no more.

 

[Dazb86]

Well one positive for me is that the season is over.

It's been a long depressing year. Next season will be much the same.

 

[stefoid]

Im optimstic!

I rate/have confidence in these players for next year, from back to front:

JJ, Fletch, Lake, Murph, Wood, Morris, Talia, Williams

Boyd, Libba, Dal, Grif, Smith, Jong, Cross, Picken
Minson, Roughead

Jones, Cordy, Gia, Dickson

Im not going to justify my selections, I just have confidence that these guys can play, IMHO.
The forward line is obviously thin, and I can see some of the mids and defenders I listed playing forward next year.

I dont see that side as being uncompetitive next year - I think its a mental issue rather than an ability issue in the second half of this year, and that our second half this year is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Hahndozer]

When you and the others reach 60 and been supporters for over 50 years and never seen them in a grand final
you will be a grumpy old tosser as well. I have never not been a western bulldogs member and a footscray before that.Watching that shxt and expecting more over the next few years, made me for the first time thinking no more.

Don't get me wrong, I can get as grumpy as the next bloke.

I just don't buy into the "woe is me" attitude from following an unsuccessful football team. And certainly not to the extent that I'd take a sign to the footy to have a public sook about it.

 

[Igloo]

We need a new coach. I'm convinced. This year we went backwards. We have a very very ordinary list. Not one single promising key forward developing. Panos could be a player but how would we ever know when he doesn't get a game even in the last round when the season was shot. Bizarre.

Talia and Roberts look promising but they're years away from forming a finals back line.
The midfield is history repeating. Wallis is slow and can't kick. Clay Smith can't kick. And Libba? well we all know where he is. Seriously not really promising is it.

At minimum we will be out of the 8 for the next five years.

Imagine Minson leaves too... we'll have no ruckman. Seeing as Cordy is a forward who can't mark and doesn't kick goals. And Roughead all of a sudden is a key defender. Maybe they'll play Jones in the ruck again lol.

So we need a new coach because we went backwards, because of our shitty list? Our coach has had one draft to bring new players in, and hasn't had the chance to delist anyone yet. Did you honestly not expect us to go backwards this year? You should blame it on your unrealistic expectations of the season, if that's the case. Everyone knows we have holes in our list, but how is that possibly the fault of McCartney? He hasn't had time to fill them.
Pretty much everything you just wrote is to do with Rocket, not McCartney.

Also laughed at Wallis, Libba and Smith not being promising. Just one of those things to shake your head at.

 

[TedDougChris]

While I don't think he's been the disaster people are making out how exactly do you come to the conclusion that he's done a great job? We have won 5 games and lost 11 in a row by an average of 60 points. The last time we played this bad Peter Rhode was coaching. And at least under Rhode we were slightly competetive...

Just on the Peter Rhode comparisons, please remember that at that time we had C Grant, B Johnson, S West and R Smith running around, plus a few other handy sorts. In some of the close games we lost this year, have a class forward or two would have made the difference.

I suspect some of the matches we won in the Rhode years were won despite his involvement, not because of it....

 

[TedDougChris]

Those players do not look like superstars.

They will be very good players no doubt but to me a superstar has the potential to one day be in say the top 5 in the competition, as say Franklin, Ablett or Judd are.

I'm not agreeing that all of the players mentioned earlier will be superstars, but let's not forget that Ablett took a while to blossom into the player he is.

 

[Running Dog]

Don't get me wrong, I can get as grumpy as the next bloke.

I just don't buy into the "woe is me" attitude from following an unsuccessful football team. And certainly not to the extent that I'd take a sign to the footy to have a public sook about it.

I agree. I can understand the 'woe is me' attitude- I indulge in it myself, because yesterday, as usual, I was the only Bulldogs supporter in the whole pub. However, to go to the trouble of making a sign and taking it to the footy? That's just attention-seeking behaviour, combined with a martyr complex.

Although it's not as bad as the bonehead at Eagles games at Subiaco who has a huge sign that just says 'All we want is consistency' (words to that effect). Before the game has even started, and before the umpires have even made a single decision, he's got his banner ready. He takes it along as though there will be a need for it, and naturally, he'll find a reason to wave it, but all he's saying is 'look at me'.

 

[josh the gent]

Im optimstic!

I rate/have confidence in these players for next year, from back to front:

JJ, Fletch, Lake, Murph, Wood, Morris, Talia, Williams

Boyd, Libba, Dal, Grif, Smith, Jong, Cross, Picken
Minson, Roughead

Jones, Cordy, Gia, Dickson

Im not going to justify my selections, I just have confidence that these guys can play, IMHO.
The forward line is obviously thin, and I can see some of the mids and defenders I listed playing forward next year.

I dont see that side as being uncompetitive next year - I think its a mental issue rather than an ability issue in the second half of this year, and that our second half this year is the exception rather than the rule.

I reckon the first half of next year will be pretty ave, but after that might get a little better.

Like most of the players you have listed, for me, these are the players that have shown enough to suggest they will be important in our next window:

KPDs: Roughead, Talia - Roberts might be ok but wasn't that impressed
Running defs: Johannison, Wood, Howard

Inside Mids: Libba, Wallis, Smith, Jong, Picken
Outside Mids: Griffen, Dahlhaus - Jarrad Grant. Must develop a tank and become a wingman. If that is not possible, I would pull the trigger and trade.
Rucks: Minson

KPFs: Jones (his 2011 cannot be ignored, sometimes young KPFs just have a down season - look at Tex Walker last year) - Cordy might be ok, but not that impressed so far
Med Forwards: Dickson, Higgins
Small Forwards:

So if those players can come on next year, and if we can draft some good talent this year (particularly with our first 3 picks), we should get the pieces for a really good team. It's quite a balanced list in terms of talent - need to add some med/small forward talent, but it should come.

BTW, I don't buy that you need a top 5 superstar player to win a flag. Our club's history is littered with superstars, and then ordinary players making up the 18 - it never got us the choccies.

Just look at the number of brownlow medallists we have vs premierships.

Surely we are the worst in the league by FAR.

 

[Dazb86]

I rate Roberts. His Williamstown form was pretty good all year. Has a tidy kick on him too.

 

[stefoid]

I rate Roberts. His Williamstown form was pretty good all year. Has a tidy kick on him too.

Ive seen very little, but Ive seen enough - youngest guy on our senior list, dont forget.

Wouldnt fall over in suprise to see Roughead or Williams playing forward next year.

 

[BWFC]

So we need a new coach because we went backwards, because of our shitty list? Our coach has had one draft to bring new players in, and hasn't had the chance to delist anyone yet. Did you honestly not expect us to go backwards this year? You should blame it on your unrealistic expectations of the season, if that's the case. Everyone knows we have holes in our list, but how is that possibly the fault of McCartney? He hasn't had time to fill them.
Pretty much everything you just wrote is to do with Rocket, not McCartney.

Also laughed at Wallis, Libba and Smith not being promising. Just one of those things to shake your head at.

That performance yesterday was weak as piss. We lost the last 11 games. Besides the game against Geelong there has been bugger all to be excited about.

Libba, Wallis and Smith. Not an efficient disposal between them. None of them will grow into damaging midfielders like the superstars of the comp.

 

[Fossie 32]

When you and the others reach 60 and been supporters for over 50 years and never seen them in a grand final
you will be a grumpy old tosser as well. I have never not been a western bulldogs member and a footscray before that.Watching that shxt and expecting more over the next few years, made me for the first time thinking no more.

Hang in there Wally! True that most? people don't know how it is to follow them for that long without winning The Big One. Hopefully, I/we would never do anything like displaying that sort of sign but after that long there is more chance of people going

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

That performance yesterday was weak as piss. We lost the last 11 games. Besides the game against Geelong there has been bugger all to be excited about.

Libba, Wallis and Smith. Not an efficient disposal between them. None of them will grow into damaging midfielders like the superstars of the comp.

Wallis - 77% disposal efficiency, 424 disposals (so that's ~326 efficient disposals), 95 clearances (5pg).
Libba - 71% disposal efficiency, 351 disposals (so that's ~249 efficient disposals), 101 clearances (5.9pg).
Smith - 65% disposal efficiency, 220 disposals (so that's ~143 efficient disposals), 25 clearances (1.6pg).

That's around 718 efficient disposals between them, for an average disposal efficiency of 72.16%. Not perfect, no, but it's pretty damn good for 19 year olds with limited experience. To say that they don't have an efficient disposal between them is an insult.

 

[BWFC]

It says a lot that people on this board are more interested in talking about some old guy in the crowd saying what the majority of bulldogs fans I know think, than talking about how inept we were yesterday. Some of the half hearted efforts... the lack of conviction.

 

[BWFC]

Wallis - 77% disposal efficiency, 424 disposals (so that's ~326 efficient disposals), 95 clearances (5pg).
Libba - 71% disposal efficiency, 351 disposals (so that's ~249 efficient disposals), 101 clearances (5.9pg).
Smith - 65% disposal efficiency, 220 disposals (so that's ~143 efficient disposals), 25 clearances (1.6pg).

That's around 718 efficient disposals between them, for an average disposal efficiency of 72.16%. Not perfect, no, but it's pretty damn good for 19 year olds with limited experience. To say that they don't have an efficient disposal between them is an insult.

Got a stat for efficiency under pressure?

The 5 clearances a game they get they grab the ball slap it on their foot without looking up field.
Pfft... our midfield has been horrible this year. Look at how many times we get the ball inside 50 compared to our opponents.

The only stat that matters is the scoreboard and we got belted every week. Learning the game the right way pfftt.

 

[TedDougChris]

It says a lot that people on this board are more interested in talking about some old guy in the crowd saying what the majority of bulldogs fans I know think, than talking about how inept we were yesterday. Some of the half hearted efforts... the lack of conviction.

Didn't see the whole game unfortunately, but we won't be the first or last club at the tail end of a long and miserable season to just think that it's all too hard...

I saw some good signs and some bad. Not judging anyone until I see more of a replay....

 

[TedDougChris]

Got a stat for efficiency under pressure?

The 5 clearances a game they get they grab the ball slap it on their foot without looking up field.
Pfft... our midfield has been horrible this year. Look at how many times we get the ball inside 50 compared to our opponents.

The only stat that matters is the scoreboard and we got belted every week. Learning the game the right way pfftt.

I've asked this previously and I'll give you a chance too. With the current list and injuries, what do we do differently to be more competitive ?? Not having a go, just genuinely interested in peoples thoughts on this...

 

[Dry Rot]

Yep kicking is an issue but I believe there's a deeper issue in that they make poor decisions also. Hopefully this can be improved.

DR I do have to take issue with your assessment on Jones, as when he plays VFL he looks like the most natural forward you'll ever see but when he's asked to be the man in the seniors he either craps himself or is blanketed by bigger bodies I'm hoping the issue is physical rather than mental.

I've only seen his AFL efforts from a TV and I think that Hall made him look good in 2011 when Hall played, and he's been woeful this season.

Is his judgement of the flight of the ball, leading and goal kicking that much better for Willi?

 

[Dazb86]

Wallis - 77% disposal efficiency, 424 disposals (so that's ~326 efficient disposals), 95 clearances (5pg).
Libba - 71% disposal efficiency, 351 disposals (so that's ~249 efficient disposals), 101 clearances (5.9pg).
Smith - 65% disposal efficiency, 220 disposals (so that's ~143 efficient disposals), 25 clearances (1.6pg).

That's around 718 efficient disposals between them, for an average disposal efficiency of 72.16%. Not perfect, no, but it's pretty damn good for 19 year olds with limited experience. To say that they don't have an efficient disposal between them is an insult.

When you put up those numbers compared to our stars they actually have quite good disposal. They take very safe options though... That's the main problem I think BWFc was talking about. We desperately need to draft in some damaging players.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Got a stat for efficiency under pressure?

The 5 clearances a game they get they grab the ball slap it on their foot without looking up field.
Pfft... our midfield has been horrible this year. Look at how many times we get the ball inside 50 compared to our opponents.

The only stat that matters is the scoreboard and we got belted every week. Learning the game the right way pfftt.

Fair enough. Not having a go, but they're first and second year players, I can imagine it'd be hard to compose yourself under pressure for a while when you have a 100 kg monster running at you. Some thrive under it, but some struggle for a bit. I think they'll get better and I don't think it's right to have a go at them for it yet. Those DE%s are pretty good compared to a lot of the team (except Smith's, but as a first-year player that's okay).


Actually, in most matches I'm pretty sure our inside 50s were pretty close to the opponent's. We just didn't have a target or a goalkicker.

When you put up those numbers compared to our stars they actually have quite good disposal. They take very safe options though... That's the main problem I think BWFc was talking about. We desperately need to draft in some damaging players.

Yeah, I understand that, but we don't have outside run or any skilful outside players (apart from Griff but he can't do all the work, and is still inconsistent), so sometimes those "safe" options, or the quick kick out of the centre is the only choice we have. Their disposal will get better when we inject some skill.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I've only seen his AFL efforts from a TV and I think that Hall made him look good in 2011 when Hall played, and he's been woeful this season.

Is his judgement of the flight of the ball, leading and goal kicking that much better for Willi?

Agree with this. I think Jones can be a great tall forward, there for the contest etc, but we need a genuine key forward, a la Barry Hall to take some pressure off Jones and allow him to play his best. I see him playing a similar (albeit lesser) role to Howe - tall, contested marking backup to Mitch Clark.

 

[TempleKelvington]

I've only seen his AFL efforts from a TV and I think that Hall made him look good in 2011 when Hall played, and he's been woeful this season.

Is his judgement of the flight of the ball, leading and goal kicking that much better for Willi?

I think the reason he was so good last year was less about Hall and more due to the fact that he spent a lot of time on ball. His contested marking was around the ground as the chop out ruck. This year he's played pure forward and with less freedom. I would have liked to see him released on ball, but it's clear Macca was developing others in that role this year.

Me thinks Jones is perhaps not really a true forward but perhaps CHB would suit him better. He did play there a lot as a junior I believe.

 

[immortalmike]

That performance yesterday was weak as piss. We lost the last 11 games. Besides the game against Geelong there has been bugger all to be excited about.

Libba, Wallis and Smith. Not an efficient disposal between them. None of them will grow into damaging midfielders like the superstars of the comp.

Can't argue on Smith one of the worst kicks I've seen (hopefully can be worked on). Wallis' kicking while not a weapon won't be a hinderance to his game, he's a good set shot and can kick a goal and he makes good decisions no worse than a that hack Scott West...

Libba though has all the tools to be the next Pendlebury, his kicking is a big strength and he'll take the best option more often than not. It was displayed for all to see in his first season where most of his senior teammates were pissfarting around with the ball while he continually hit Baz up on a lead. If he has his head straight you'll eat your words one day.

I've only seen his AFL efforts from a TV and I think that Hall made him look good in 2011 when Hall played, and he's been woeful this season.

Is his judgement of the flight of the ball, leading and goal kicking that much better for Willi?

Yeah it's honestly like watching a completely different player. He attacks the contest strong, hard and with confidence. He often demands the ball and offers multiple leads, beautiful contested marking also, even seems to read the play better. Seems to enjoy playing at Willy also. Goal kicking is still ordinary though but 2 out of 3 ain't bad I guess.

 

[Dry Rot]

I think the reason he was so good last year was less about Hall and more due to the fact that he spent a lot of time on ball. His contested marking was around the ground as the chop out ruck. This year he's played pure forward and with less freedom. I would have liked to see him released on ball, but it's clear Macca was developing others in that role this year.

Me thinks Jones is perhaps not really a true forward but perhaps CHB would suit him better. He did play there a lot as a junior I believe.

That's my take too, but I don't see VFL games like immortalmike so maybe

Yeah it's honestly like watching a completely different player. He attacks the contest strong, hard and with confidence. He often demands the ball and offers multiple leads, beautiful contested marking also, even seems to read the play better. Seems to enjoy playing at Willy also. Goal kicking is still ordinary though but 2 out of 3 ain't bad I guess.

Fair enough. Maybe next year we'll see this, as he's been in the system a good while now.

BTW, do you reckon he'd make a good CHB? We need one too.