VFL VFL Round 16 v Footscray. Friday July 7. 3:05pm @ Avalon Airport Oval.

Remove this Banner Ad

Aug 26, 2009
2,316
7,834
Yarra Bend
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Liverpool FC
It's a worry as fly sees him as the exciting missing piece in our puzzle. I know he must have felt very out of touch after such a long lay off but I hoped for more. I think he will still come back in alongside Checkers. Billy Frampton and Coxy have been terrible. Coxy needs to pull the finger out, He has had a couple of quiet games.
Not sure he's the 'exciting' missing piece, but he has been the missing piece because of his versatility. He can play both ends and ruck if necessary. He also allows Mihocek to be number 2 forward with a number two opponent.

If last night showed us anything, it's that we need more key position support.
 

JOELY

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 9, 2006
6,355
6,865
Melbourne, Australia
AFL Club
Collingwood
Fin dominated
Ginni was back to his 2021 best but with better defensive work and tackling
Harrison is so much better after a stint at afl

Beggy I felt was quite good.
Allan did nice things


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

If Begg is going to play as a ruckman we need to judge him as a ruckman and on that basis I didn't think he was that good. He's a great competitor and does some good ground level stuff, but he finally came up against an AFL sized ruckman yesterday and Sweet had 43 hit outs and Begg had 13. The team lost the hit outs 60 to 14!! Begg also had only one mark for the game.
So again, judging him as a ruckman and thinking about how his game transfers to AFL level, what good is a ruckman that doesn't win hit outs and doesn't mark?
 

stormskye

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 24, 2019
12,370
28,033
AFL Club
Collingwood
If Begg is going to play as a ruckman we need to judge him as a ruckman and on that basis I didn't think he was that good. He's a great competitor and does some good ground level stuff, but he finally came up against an AFL sized ruckman yesterday and Sweet had 43 hit outs and Begg had 13. The team lost the hit outs 60 to 14!! Begg also had only one mark for the game.
So again, judging him as a ruckman and thinking about how his game transfers to AFL level, what good is a ruckman that doesn't win hit outs and doesn't mark?
Can you imagine begg against the big o? Darcy? Gawn? He will never be an afl ruck. He’d get completely out bodied and outmarked all over the ground.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

domus

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 31, 2008
12,086
21,168
Mooroolbark
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Mooroolbark footy club
If Begg is going to play as a ruckman we need to judge him as a ruckman and on that basis I didn't think he was that good. He's a great competitor and does some good ground level stuff, but he finally came up against an AFL sized ruckman yesterday and Sweet had 43 hit outs and Begg had 13. The team lost the hit outs 60 to 14!! Begg also had only one mark for the game.
So again, judging him as a ruckman and thinking about how his game transfers to AFL level, what good is a ruckman that doesn't win hit outs and doesn't mark?
Always said he is too small for that role.
 

Dundalis

Club Legend
Sep 16, 2005
2,681
1,111
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
The thing with Ginnivan, is our game is based on ball movement and speed. You see what Bobby Hill did with his run and carry and speed against the Dogs when he did get the ball. Bevo mentioned that one of the difficulties in containing us is the leg speed we have on every line.

If Ginnivan was an elite mark like Jamie that would be one thing. But there's also the fact Jamie has that role. His role in the team is simply better used by a small forward with DYNAMISM in their game. Whether that's explosiveness, elite pressure, power, strength, etc, things we have currently in our small/mid sized forwards like Jamie, Hill, McCreery, Adams when he's there etc. I simply don't think having great forward craft alone is gonna cut it, given the style of play McRae wants to implement. He's a Buckley player, which I think is the main reason McRae went so hard after Hill. Because that's the type of small forward he wants in that position.
 
e5195f7d6015bb45a891d1bcf7b838f7.jpg
371229b60836f4e904df999b89c971ab.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Would love to see Finn keep backing that up. Adams, Mitchell and yes, Pendlebury all have Father Time against them.
 
Doing it every week for quite some time

Yep not 38 possessions though. That is genuinely a “too good for VFL” level, not just a “good at VFL” level.
 

Mollythedolly

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 21, 2021
5,465
5,919
AFL Club
Collingwood
If Begg is going to play as a ruckman we need to judge him as a ruckman and on that basis I didn't think he was that good. He's a great competitor and does some good ground level stuff, but he finally came up against an AFL sized ruckman yesterday and Sweet had 43 hit outs and Begg had 13. The team lost the hit outs 60 to 14!! Begg also had only one mark for the game.
So again, judging him as a ruckman and thinking about how his game transfers to AFL level, what good is a ruckman that doesn't win hit outs and doesn't mark?

Still far from the finished product. Only 20 and has a lot more physical development in him. I think he's improved enormously already this year relative to last. Look forward to seeing him in 2024 with another preseason under his belt. By comparison, he's a few cm's shorter than Rowan Marshall but 15kg's lighter. He won't add that bulk overnight, but incremental improvements should be expected.

He's already played senior footy and played his role. That's all that'd be expected of him at this stage.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

whiskeytown

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 16, 2014
5,598
9,696
AFL Club
Collingwood
Still far from the finished product. Only 20 and has a lot more physical development in him. I think he's improved enormously already this year relative to last. Look forward to seeing him in 2024 with another preseason under his belt. By comparison, he's a few cm's shorter than Rowan Marshall but 15kg's lighter. He won't add that bulk overnight, but incremental improvements should be expected.

He's already played senior footy and played his role. That's all that'd be expected of him at this stage.

Out of contract and possibly not on the list next year… unless they decide to play him in a different position I.e down back

Cause with the lack of hit outs he will never be an AFL level primary ruck… and with the lack of contested marks he will never be a ruck forward
 

Mollythedolly

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 21, 2021
5,465
5,919
AFL Club
Collingwood
Out of contract and possibly not on the list next year… unless they decide to play him in a different position I.e down back

Cause with the lack of hit outs he will never be an AFL level primary ruck… and with the lack of contested marks he will never be a ruck forward

Tim English debuted at about the same age Begg is now in 2017. Wasn’t till 2021 that he average 20+ hitouts. His 1st season was 5.5, his 2nd about 14. I doubt Begg’s hitout numbers will be the determinant, more about how the rest of his game continues to develop and that’s continued to improve.
 
Tim English debuted at about the same age Begg is now in 2017. Wasn’t till 2021 that he average 20+ hitouts. His 1st season was 5.5, his 2nd about 14. I doubt Begg’s hitout numbers will be the determinant, more about how the rest of his game continues to develop and that’s continued to improve.
He's improvong and putting on bulk. He's a chance, but with small lists, I suspect he'd need to be a better chance to hold his spot in the squad
 

whiskeytown

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 16, 2014
5,598
9,696
AFL Club
Collingwood
Tim English debuted at about the same age Begg is now in 2017. Wasn’t till 2021 that he average 20+ hitouts. His 1st season was 5.5, his 2nd about 14. I doubt Begg’s hitout numbers will be the determinant, more about how the rest of his game continues to develop and that’s continued to improve.

Tim English is 208cm and was drafted at pick 19 cause he had the form as a ruck in his draft year

Begg on the other hand…
 
Tim English is 208cm and was drafted at pick 19 cause he had the form as a ruck in his draft year

Begg on the other hand…
Is he that tall? Yeah, Begg is developing well, but he's going to have to be exceptional to give away10cm in aerial contests - and he's not exceptional or tracking that way.
 

Mollythedolly

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 21, 2021
5,465
5,919
AFL Club
Collingwood
Tim English is 208cm and was drafted at pick 19 cause he had the form as a ruck in his draft year

Begg on the other hand…

English's draft pick history is irrelevant to his performances, but those factors make Begg's senior performances even more meritorious by comparison. And he did it averaging about 20% less TOG% (19yo) and about a third less TOG% (20yo).

English as a 19yo.


English as a 20yo.


Add that English has always played as a ruck, Begg only a recent convert.

I'm happy to give him time to develop. Got the feeling Hine was also an advocate when he indicated we were happy with our ruck stocks beyond 2023.
 

whiskeytown

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 16, 2014
5,598
9,696
AFL Club
Collingwood
English's draft pick history is irrelevant to his performances, but those factors make Begg's senior performances even more meritorious by comparison. And he did it averaging about 20% less TOG% (19yo) and about a third less TOG% (20yo).

English as a 19yo.


English as a 20yo.


Add that English has always played as a ruck, Begg only a recent convert.

I'm happy to give him time to develop. Got the feeling Hine was also an advocate when he indicated we were happy with our ruck stocks beyond 2023.

I don’t understand why you post comparisons that both show that English was superior at hit outs at the same age 🤷‍♀️

It doesn’t help your point.

Begg’s contested and ground level work at the same age is comparatively better… they are his one wood… which is why if anything they should look to turn him into a negating defender

His athleticism, contest and ground work will allow him to spoil and mop up well as a key defender
 

Mollythedolly

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 21, 2021
5,465
5,919
AFL Club
Collingwood
I don’t understand why you post comparisons that both show that English was superior at hit outs at the same age 🤷‍♀️

It doesn’t help your point.

Begg’s contested and ground level work at the same age is comparatively better… they are his one wood… which is why if anything they should look to turn him into a negating defender

His athleticism, contest and ground work will allow him to spoil and mop up well as a key defender

As I highlighted, English was being groomed as a ruckman his entire junior career, Begg played a couple of games there in his draft year prior to injury. You'd expect English to have started better. But it wasn't that much better. English had a hitout win % of 16% in his debut season, Begg 12%.

My point was that Begg will improve his ruckcraft, just as English has. Not sure how showing as an example that English started from an incredibly low level of hitouts and then improved does anything other than support my point. We've seen improvement in Begg this year over last in most elements of his game.

I think you just need to accept that the club see him as a ruckman, and build a bridge on your KPD aspirations for him.
 

whiskeytown

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 16, 2014
5,598
9,696
AFL Club
Collingwood
As I highlighted, English was being groomed as a ruckman his entire junior career, Begg played a couple of games there in his draft year prior to injury. You'd expect English to have started better. But it wasn't that much better. English had a hitout win % of 16% in his debut season, Begg 12%.

My point was that Begg will improve his ruckcraft, just as English has. Not sure how showing as an example that English started from an incredibly low level of hitouts and then improved does anything other than support my point. We've seen improvement in Begg this year over last in most elements of his game.

I think you just need to accept that the club see him as a ruckman, and build a bridge on your KPD aspirations for him.

Yes cause the club never get it wrong on players

From last year alone it’s clear they delisted the wrong one cause then and now McMahon > Kelly

Let alone other years…

If I knew you personally I’d bet a pineapple coloured note that Begg is never a regular senior player as a ruck forward

His low yield ruck work could be compensated for if he was a decent contested mark - but he isn’t
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back