VFL VFL Round 16 v Footscray. Friday July 7. 3:05pm @ Avalon Airport Oval.

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ipswichpies

Premiership Player
Jul 6, 2011
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Collingwood
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Watching Begg he will never be good enough in the ruck to overcome 10cms in the ruck week in and week out he will be giving away to be competitive in the ruck and his marking will preclude him from being an option up forward let alone his kicking which is also average.

I think long term the only chance he has is the one where he has not played yet namely down back if he is not given a chance in the backline he will be off the list as he is not good enough or big enough.
 

ipswichpies

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Jul 6, 2011
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You only need to look at Kelly to see why McMahon should have been retained,it was a bad choice then and only gets worse with every game Will plays, so yes it was definitely a mistake to retain Will over Liam.
 

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You only need to look at Kelly to see why McMahon should have been retained,it was a bad choice then and only gets worse with every game Will plays, so yes it was definitely a mistake to retain Will over Liam.
Retaining Kelly and delisting McMahon were separate events. Whether or not they kept Kelly, they were still delisting McMahon. It actually came down to Kelly and Madge as the last two on the list without contracts. McMahon had already been delisted. And delisting McMahon hasn't become a mistake yet - was there any discussion at all about someone looking at him in the MSD?
 

ipswichpies

Premiership Player
Jul 6, 2011
3,770
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queensland
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Collingwood
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Retaining Kelly and delisting McMahon were separate events. Whether or not they kept Kelly, they were still delisting McMahon. It actually came down to Kelly and Madge as the last two on the list without contracts. McMahon had already been delisted. And delisting McMahon hasn't become a mistake yet - was there any discussion at all about someone looking at him in the MSD?
My point still stands IE Kelly 5 or 6 yrs on the list with little or no improvement McMahon 2 yrs and still skinny compared to Kelly.Let me put something to you how many suitors do you think Kelly will have when he becomes delisted which must surely happen,I would suggest not many myself.
 
My point still stands IE Kelly 5 or 6 yrs on the list with little or no improvement McMahon 2 yrs and still skinny compared to Kelly.Let me put something to you how many suitors do you think Kelly will have when he becomes delisted which must surely happen,I would suggest not many myself.
Your point seems to be Kelly's s**t and McMahon is skinny so they should have given McMahon a contract.

I say, Kelly's s**t and I'm fat, so they should have given me a contract.
 

whiskeytown

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 16, 2014
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Retaining Kelly and delisting McMahon were separate events. Whether or not they kept Kelly, they were still delisting McMahon. It actually came down to Kelly and Madge as the last two on the list without contracts. McMahon had already been delisted. And delisting McMahon hasn't become a mistake yet - was there any discussion at all about someone looking at him in the MSD?

Interesting version of events

McMahon stats this year have been good for Carlton VFL. He played the first several games as a defender and now back to playing forward

C52B7CC7-28A1-441B-8631-27BCCD4CF403.png


What has Kelly achieved in the VFL this year? He’s not even being played as a forward or back anymore
 
Interesting version of events

McMahon stats this year have been good for Carlton VFL. He played the first several games as a defender and now back to playing forward

View attachment 1736944

What has Kelly achieved in the VFL this year? He’s not even being played as a forward or back anymore
Kelly is irrelevant to MacMahon. McMahon was a 20 year old tall that we had on the list for two years. If they thought he was going to make it they would have kept him, regardless of Kelly. They didn't think he was going to make it and delisted him. Pretty straight forward. Maybe he'll improve and get there one day, but delisting him certainly can't be viewed as a mistake at this stage.
 

ipswichpies

Premiership Player
Jul 6, 2011
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Interesting version of events

McMahon stats this year have been good for Carlton VFL. He played the first several games as a defender and now back to playing forward

View attachment 1736944

What has Kelly achieved in the VFL this year? He’s not even being played as a forward or back anymore
We are afraid to stick him forward or back because the ball may come to him so we try and hide him on a wing,really looking at McMahon,s stats just,s show what a bad decision it is proving to be.

4 goals a game probably means he would be close to playing for our 1sts at only 20 and still great scope for improvement,we are screaming out for a young forward who kicks goals on a regular basis and judging by those stats is more than handy down back.

No wonder his Family were so mad we delisted him but there were some of us who wanted Kelly gone before him I just hope this one is not as bad a decision to force Scotland out all those years ago.
 
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Mollythedolly

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 21, 2021
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Collingwood
Yes cause the club never get it wrong on players

From last year alone it’s clear they delisted the wrong one cause then and now McMahon > Kelly

Let alone other years…

If I knew you personally I’d bet a pineapple coloured note that Begg is never a regular senior player as a ruck forward

His low yield ruck work could be compensated for if he was a decent contested mark - but he isn’t

I’ve never suggested the club is infallible, I’ve never suggested I’m infallible. Begg may never become a regular senior player, but if he does it’ll be as a ruckman/forward imho, not a defender.
 

ipswichpies

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Jul 6, 2011
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I’ve never suggested the club is infallible, I’ve never suggested I’m infallible. Begg may never become a regular senior player, but if he does it’ll be as a ruckman/forward imho, not a defender.
You are quite right to assert you are not infallible if you think Aiden will make it as a ruck or forward if you have seen his kicking and marking.
 
We are afraid to stick him forward or back because the ball my come to him so we try and hide him on a wing,really looking at McMahon,s stats just,s show what a bad decision it is proving to be.

4 goals a game probably means he would be close to playing for our 1sts at only 20 and still great scope for improvement,we are screaming out for a young forward who kicks goals on a regular basis and judging by those stats is more than handy down back.

No wonder his Family were so mad we delisted him but there were some of us who wanted Kelly gone him I just hope this one is not as bad a decision to force Scotland out all those years ago.
You've created a narrative where the last list spot was a battle between Kelly and McMahon. However, the reality is that we kept a list spot free and had Markov and Steene train with us over Summer. Pretty clear that we could have easily kept one, neither or both.

Fair enough that you think keeping Kelly was a mistake, but delisting McMahon isn't yet. Maybe one day. But declaring it a bad call now is silly.
 

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ipswichpies

Premiership Player
Jul 6, 2011
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queensland
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Collingwood
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You've created a narrative where the last list spot was a battle between Kelly and McMahon. However, the reality is that we kept a list spot free and had Markov and Steene train with us over Summer. Pretty clear that we could have easily kept one, neither or both.

Fair enough that you think keeping Kelly was a mistake, but delisting McMahon isn't yet. Maybe one day. But declaring it a bad call now is silly.
I am not creating that narrative all,what I have said and will continue to say is that Kelly should have been delisted before McMahon, also McMahon is showing quite a deal more than Kelly does at VFL and his figures back me up on that. I will make it simple Liam should have remained on the list ahead of Will and the way they have perform recently proves this.

You I think came out in favour of keeping Kelly over McMahon last year and I think you justified it by saying it was the coaches decision and his to make but it was wrong then and judging them now it only gets worse.

Malthouse made this error with Sav and I am not sure if he was coach when Scotland went Carlton and played 260 games at a very good standard so I am yet to be convinced of any coaches infallibility.
 
I’ve never suggested the club is infallible, I’ve never suggested I’m infallible. Begg may never become a regular senior player, but if he does it’ll be as a ruckman/forward imho, not a defender.
Yeah I'm with you. I don't think he'll make it, but ruck is the position that his strengths are the most suited to. It's not the 1970's, where defenders were often just big blokes who had a dip. Modern defenders have to be able to read the game really well, read the ball flight really well and clunk their marks. They're probably the three biggest weaknesses in his game.
 
I am not creating that narrative all,what I have said and will continue to say is that Kelly should have been delisted before McMahon, also McMahon is showing quite a deal more than Kelly does at VFL and his figures back me up on that. I will make it simple Liam should have remained on the list ahead of Will and the way they have perform recently proves this.

You I think came out in favour of keeping Kelly over McMahon last year and I think you justified it by saying it was the coaches decision and his to make but it was wrong then and judging them now it only gets worse.

Malthouse made this error with Sav and I am not sure if he was coach when Scotland went Carlton and played 260 games at a very good standard so I am yet to be convinced of any coaches infallibility.
Nah I would have cut Kelly and was surprised that we didn't.

However, he's been better on a wing than I was expecting and I can see why they gave him another year in a totally different role, as he's a great size and can run and kick and being used in the seniors suggests that he's following instructions and running the patterns they want. But Iike I thought last year, I assume he'll get cut.

Have you seen MacMahon this year? - I haven't, but I wouldn't read too much into those stats by themselves. I daresay Tom Wilson's VFL stats would look pretty similar. And from what I saw of him at Collingwood, that's who I'd compare him to. Tall bloke with nice skills and a flankers mindset and attack in the air.

Time will tell if his delisting is a mistake, but it's not related to Kelly's retention. They were separate decisions. We could have easily kept them both.
 

Jelly Bean

Premiership Player
Dec 12, 2010
4,699
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My point still stands IE Kelly 5 or 6 yrs on the list with little or no improvement McMahon 2 yrs and still skinny compared to Kelly.Let me put something to you how many suitors do you think Kelly will have when he becomes delisted which must surely happen,I would suggest not many myself.
The bigger mistake was trading a future first round pick that ended up being pick 2 to get into draft position to get McMahon and Poulter, and then delist both after the two year minimum. I'll never let that one go. Every time I see Finn Callaghan running around for the Giants, I'll think of this... We could have had both he and Daics!
 

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