2nds VFL v Sandy @ Trevor Barker Beach Oval sunday 2pm

[Go Hoops]

I think it's too late now regardless. He's had 6 years. He's never at any point been a regular senior player, and never at any point been outstanding in the VFL either. That at least is one very easy decision in October.

So you keep saying. Wasn't Menzel and Vardy never playing again another one of your wrong assertions? Keep them coming the law of averages says you will eventually get one right.

 

[Partridge]

So you keep saying. Wasn't Menzel and Vardy never playing again another one of your wrong assertions? Keep them coming the law of averages says you will eventually get one right.

Nope, it wasn't. I said I wasn't holding my breath. I definitely still have big doubts on either long term too.

I did however say Stokes was finished, and that it wouldn't surprise me if Vardy was brought back in before the end of the season by Scott. Are either of them wrong assertions?

 

[Teriyakicat]

I think it's too late now regardless. He's had 6 years. He's never at any point been a regular senior player, and never at any point been outstanding in the VFL either. That at least is one very easy decision in October.

Being top 1, 2 or 3 in 2011 in 10 out of 13 games means there's certainly a bit more than a glimmer there, Partridge.


Unless, of course, it was his Mum picking the best players each week...

 

[Partridge]

Being top 1, 2 or 3 in 2011 in 10 out of 13 games means there's certainly a bit more than a glimmer there, Partridge.
View attachment 164907

Unless, of course, it was his Mum picking the best players each week...

Fair enough. There must have been a groundswell of support for him to get picked in September that year for the finals. Can't recall it off the top of my head.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Fair enough. There must have been a groundswell of support for him to get picked in September that year for the finals. Can't recall it off the top of my head.

The coaches must be seeing a lot of his ability just on the training track in recent years because he just isn't able to get onto the field. With his achilles operations- they were apparently some genetic problem that has now been fixed- I guess they would've figured that he was a chance to play some good footy this season but he has unfortunately been hamstrung.

Like Vardy and Menzel, if the prognosis is positive, the club will keep putting the time and money into him. This season, he's played 5 VFL games, none of which have seen him on the 'bests' list- but he was picked to play in the seniors after just 2 of those games (admittedly a very depleted seniors team).

Have you watched him play at all this season? If so, what are your thoughts on him- do you think he's got an above average ability for an AFL player?

 

[goyoucatters]

Fair enough. There must have been a groundswell of support for him to get picked in September that year for the finals. Can't recall it off the top of my head.

As Teriyakicat already pointed out, his Mum's influence only extended to picking the VFL bests each week.

Sadly she didn't make it onto the senior MC.

Seriously, though, the VFL team failed to qualify for finals in 2011 so Josh had no further games to press his claims (or keep up match fitness) when the AFL finals started.

And he had some pretty handy company sitting on the sidelines during that 2011 finals series.

Two-time premiership players Milburn, Mooney and Byrnes were all unable to crack a game at that time.

I would agree that potentially very few (apart from his Mum) were running around clamouring for his inclusion in the finals team that year.

But his VFL record for 2011 would seem to indicate that he was getting along pretty well.

And, of the 22 H&A fixtures we played that year, he played three games in the seniors and was named in the emergencies another 12 times.

That info alone makes it pretty clear he was making a decent impression back then on the MC.

Which does give some background at least to why he's not 'out the Cat-door' just yet.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Hope Delaney has a good game, great news that he is putting his name on the team sheet.

As expected he blew up pretty early last week after missing so much footy. Looked a natural defender though and got into some great spots to either mark , spoil or halve the contest. He is a seriously well built young man , great to see him fronting up for game 2 of his comeback

 

[Teriyakicat]

As Teriyakicat already pointed out, his Mum's influence only extended to picking the VFL bests each week.

Sadly she didn't make it onto the senior MC.

Seriously, though, the VFL team failed to qualify for finals in 2011 so Josh had no further games to press his claims (or keep up match fitness) when the AFL finals started.

And he had some pretty handy company sitting on the sidelines during that 2011 finals series.

Two-time premiership players Milburn, Mooney and Byrnes were all unable to crack a game at that time.

I would agree that potentially very few (apart from his Mum) were running around clamouring for his inclusion in the finals team that year.

But his VFL record for 2011 would seem to indicate that he was getting along pretty well.

And, of the 22 H&A fixtures we played that year, he played three games in the seniors and was named in the emergencies another 12 times.

That info alone makes it pretty clear he was making a decent impression back then on the MC.

Which does give some background at least to why he's not 'out the Cat-door' just yet.

Good research, goyoucatters- I hadn't looked at the team sheets to know he was named as an emergency so often. Looks like he was just on the cusp of breaking into the team but just could not crack it. We had lost very few players from our 2009 premiership squad and that, coupled with the unearthing of the talents of his 2009 teammates, left him on the outer. He was just not quite good enough to make it in his 2nd year of AFL football.

A young fella trying to force into a premiership team just has to be a star or have some special attribute that makes him valuable to the team (obviously!)- or there has to be a place for him if he's not a star. Cowan's co- draftees saw quite a bit of game-time in 2011 but he, as a light-bodied outside player just couldn't find his niche, except for 3 games. The others squeezed into the forward line (Menzel), the ruck (Vardy), played as an inside mid (Christensen)- can't recall where Duncan played (wing?). There was just no more room at the inn for a fringe player.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

No matter how unpalatable it might be to many on here, I think Cowan only has to get through the last couple of VFL games to be on the list somewhere (rookie, at the least) at Geelong next year.

Wouldn't survive a poll on here but the people that matter at the club appear to hold him in extremely high regard.

And the cavernous cull of the list that is about to transpire means he is probably more palatable for the club than adding yet another very late pick to our draft selections this year.

Also in his favour is that we're clearing a lot out, seniors + those already gone (HMac, Hartman, Stokes, Rivers 99%, Blease 99% etc at least) plus a supposedly very shallow draft. If he stays fit for the rest of the VFL season the club will probably see more value in keeping him than taking a late pick in a crappy draft.

 

[Partridge]

Have you watched him play at all this season? If so, what are your thoughts on him- do you think he's got an above average ability for an AFL player?

Not this season, apart from the 15 minutes against Collingwood. Overall, good pace, great desperation and enthusiasm. From the games I've seen, a query on disposal. I haven't seen anything exceptional that screams "we must keep him". Time will tell.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Not this season, apart from the 15 minutes against Collingwood. Overall, good pace, great desperation and enthusiasm. From the games I've seen, a query on disposal. I haven't seen anything exceptional that screams "we must keep him". Time will tell.

*sings*
"Three Out of Four Aint Bad"

 

[Liger]

Game is to be streamed on the VFL website.
With Vardy playing seniors and Menz on ice, I guess it'll be Cowan cam.

 

[Catdog]

As expected he blew up pretty early last week after missing so much footy. Looked a natural defender though and got into some great spots to either mark , spoil or halve the contest. He is a seriously well built young man , great to see him fronting up for game 2 of his comeback

Thanks for the info-missed last week due to being abroad.

This for me is what makes big footy such a rich source of information

Normal people telling how they see it

 

[catswhiskers]

He should have been a delist candidate even prior to his first injuries; at no stage, not early in his Geelong career nor during the occasional games he has played since his problems began, has he impressed me at any level, let alone the highest possible level. Simply put, Cowan has been the beneficiary of a list management philosophy that has viewed lack of durability as a "get out of jail free card"-esque excuse rather than a legitimate shortcoming worthy of consideration in the 'to delist or not to delist' discussion. For the past four of five years, injury-prone players have been afforded a leniency not extended to their durable counterparts on the list; fringe players with question marks hovering over their future have been, almost paradoxically, more likely to stay on the list if they incurred a long-term injury than if they stayed fully fit, and Cowan is one of those who have survived the cut on this dubious basis.

I would have delisted him 3 or 4 years ago.

Well its not often I read a post that says "you have to post something, that's ordinary." This is one.

Whether you Baudilino, like it or not there are better judges of talent than you.

If you do a search you will find a few posts i made before Cowan was injured, of his efforts in the NAB stuff (live) where I thought his efforts were very good and much better than a 55 pick should be producing.

That doesn't make me a better judge of talent than you though.

The staff at our footy club have decided he was a better bet than others who could have been drafted if he had had been delisted at any point in the last three years. They are probably the best judges.

I was at the Collingwood game this year. In 10% TOG Cowan picked up 1.3 AF points per minute on ground. A small sample but he had lost nothing of the find the footy, get it on to advantage, that is his go. Thats 80% TOG x 1.3 = 90+ pts per game. Which would have been a good return coming back but for injury.

Injury is where the discussion lies IMO. Not talent.

We have placed a lot of time into injury prone players. if 50 % go on to produce the talent identified we will have done OK from the time spent. If Cowan overcomes injury (think Rioli for soft tissue problems) he will push best 22 or better.

Should Vardy , Menzel, Delaney, Cowan, McCarthy, Clark, and even perhaps Bates (who was given 1.5 years to get right) turn up together, watch out.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Game is to be streamed on the VFL website.
With Vardy playing seniors and Menz on ice, I guess it'll be Cowan cam.

That'd be right. We've been waiting for some vision most of the season and, when we finally get it, the players we really want to see aren't playing.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Well its not often I read a post that says "you have to post something, that's ordinary." This is one.

Whether you Baudilino, like it or not there are better judges of talent than you.

If you do a search you will find a few posts i made before Cowan was injured, of his efforts in the NAB stuff (live) where I thought his efforts were very good and much better than a 55 pick should be producing.

That doesn't make me a better judge of talent than you though.

The staff at our footy club have decided he was a better bet than others who could have been drafted if he had had been delisted at any point in the last three years. They are probably the best judges.

I was at the Collingwood game this year. In 10% TOG Cowan picked up 1.3 AF points per minute on ground. A small sample but he had lost nothing of the find the footy, get it on to advantage, that is his go. Thats 80% TOG x 1.3 = 90+ pts per game. Which would have been a good return coming back but for injury.

Injury is where the discussion lies IMO. Not talent.

We have placed a lot of time into injury prone players. if 50 % go on to produce the talent identified we will have done OK from the time spent. If Cowan overcomes injury (think Rioli for soft tissue problems) he will push best 22 or better.

Should Vardy , Menzel, Delaney, Cowan, McCarthy, Clark, and even perhaps Bates (who was given 1.5 years to get right) turn up together, watch out.

It's been great to see Bates' name on the list each week after being Mr Invisible for almost the entire season last year. I'd love to see him get a promotion soon.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So you keep saying. Wasn't Menzel and Vardy never playing again another one of your wrong assertions? Keep them coming the law of averages says you will eventually get one right.

Don't worry the grim reaper is here to pick over the carcasses

 

[Baudolino]

Well its not often I read a post that says "you have to post something, that's ordinary." This is one.

Whether you Baudilino, like it or not there are better judges of talent than you.

If you do a search you will find a few posts i made before Cowan was injured, of his efforts in the NAB stuff (live) where I thought his efforts were very good and much better than a 55 pick should be producing.

That doesn't make me a better judge of talent than you though.

The staff at our footy club have decided he was a better bet than others who could have been drafted if he had had been delisted at any point in the last three years. They are probably the best judges.

I was at the Collingwood game this year. In 10% TOG Cowan picked up 1.3 AF points per minute on ground. A small sample but he had lost nothing of the find the footy, get it on to advantage, that is his go. Thats 80% TOG x 1.3 = 90+ pts per game. Which would have been a good return coming back but for injury.

Injury is where the discussion lies IMO. Not talent.

We have placed a lot of time into injury prone players. if 50 % go on to produce the talent identified we will have done OK from the time spent. If Cowan overcomes injury (think Rioli for soft tissue problems) he will push best 22 or better.

Should Vardy , Menzel, Delaney, Cowan, McCarthy, Clark, and even perhaps Bates (who was given 1.5 years to get right) turn up together, watch out.

The main premise of your counter-argument relies on the appeal to authority fallacy, so there's really not much for me to say here. All I can do is point out the fact that whether or not the club are "probably" better judges than you or me is completely irrelevant to the conversation and in no way serves as a rebuttal of my points.

 

[catswhiskers]

The main premise of your counter-argument relies on the appeal to authority fallacy, so there's really not much for me to say here. All I can do is point out the fact that whether or not the club are "probably" better judges than you or me is completely irrelevant to the conversation and in no way serves as a rebuttal of my points.

I think those "authorities" between them earn a heap more than you and me put together, maybe an extra nought or two more on the end. And I am assuming you earn a fair bit.

We make the occasional post on big footy. They do list management. Big difference.

If you want to pot our players feel free. Occasionally someone will question you.

 

[Lana]

Well its not often I read a post that says "you have to post something, that's ordinary." This is one.

Whether you Baudilino, like it or not there are better judges of talent than you.

If you do a search you will find a few posts i made before Cowan was injured, of his efforts in the NAB stuff (live) where I thought his efforts were very good and much better than a 55 pick should be producing.

That doesn't make me a better judge of talent than you though.

The staff at our footy club have decided he was a better bet than others who could have been drafted if he had had been delisted at any point in the last three years. They are probably the best judges.

I was at the Collingwood game this year. In 10% TOG Cowan picked up 1.3 AF points per minute on ground. A small sample but he had lost nothing of the find the footy, get it on to advantage, that is his go. Thats 80% TOG x 1.3 = 90+ pts per game. Which would have been a good return coming back but for injury.

Injury is where the discussion lies IMO. Not talent.

We have placed a lot of time into injury prone players. if 50 % go on to produce the talent identified we will have done OK from the time spent. If Cowan overcomes injury (think Rioli for soft tissue problems) he will push best 22 or better.

Should Vardy , Menzel, Delaney, Cowan, McCarthy, Clark, and even perhaps Bates (who was given 1.5 years to get right) turn up together, watch out.

I like Cowan, but I wouldn't be using Dream team score as evidence to support him. Back in 2011 and 2012 he was a ball magnet at VFL level won the ball on the inside and got plenty on the outside. Was a little explosive at times, not to the extent of Motlop or Dangerfield but a little more than Guthrie. Trade off was that his disposal was a little inconsistent (especially his short kicks) but not Stringer inconsistent. He was a class above VFL level, I don't know if he'll ever show us what he could have been and it wouldn't surprise me if he has finally run out of chances but it is ridiculous to suggest that he has never shown good form at any level or should have been delisted 3 or 4 years ago. I doubt that anyone who has actually watched him play back then would actually hold that opinion.

 

[catswhiskers]

I like Cowan, but I wouldn't be using Dream team score as evidence to support him. Back in 2011 and 2012 he was a ball magnet at VFL level won the ball on the inside and got plenty on the outside. Was a little explosive at times, not to the extent of Motlop or Dangerfield but a little more than Guthrie. Trade off was that his disposal was a little inconsistent (especially his short kicks) but not Stringer inconsistent. He was a class above VFL level, I don't know if he'll ever show us what he could have been and it wouldn't surprise me if he has finally run out of chances but it is ridiculous to suggest that he has never shown good form at any level or should have been delisted 3 or 4 years ago. I doubt that anyone who has actually watched him play back then would actually hold that opinion.

I agree. He could play. He has had a poor run with injury. Its up to the list managers now. if i was a betting man i would say a rookie list spot is where he will be if he finishes the year fit, with lots of others on the out i would not be displeased if he has one more year.

 

[dazbroncos]

That'd be right. We've been waiting for some vision most of the season and, when we finally get it, the players we really want to see aren't playing.

Any coverage is great Negative Nancy….

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

Game is to be streamed on the VFL website.
With Vardy playing seniors and Menz on ice, I guess it'll be Cowan cam.

Video or audio only….

that would be awesome if video…

link?

Go Catters

 

[Partridge]

I think those "authorities" between them earn a heap more than you and me put together, maybe an extra nought or two more on the end. And I am assuming you earn a fair bit.

We make the occasional post on big footy. They do list management. Big difference.

If you want to pot our players feel free. Occasionally someone will question you.

The last part is absolutely reasonable. The first part implies we shouldn't even question them.

There is also the corollary; anyone wishing to unconditionally praise every decision should feel free too. They can be questioned as well. When the depth of the list has been questioned this year, asking why the club should keep a player who has managed 4 games in 6 years is perfectly sensible.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Video or audio only….

that would be awesome if video…

link?

Go Catters

Oh, Daz, you'll be so excited about this- it's VIDEO!!!



http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc...ID=91640&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=34360731