Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Dan26]

No change to the system, T&C confirms AFL membership doesn't guarantee access.

Technically true, because there are more Gold AFL members than seats, but for all practical purposes, we gold members are guaranteed a seat, provided you know how to use ticketek. It's not difficult.

You mean being silver members and getting access to 40 games per year and week 1-3 of finals and GFs

What an "investment"

I'm not sure why this is so "funny". Silver members invest their time and money into the benefits of one day being a Gold AFL member which will give Grand Final access. 20 years time is invested into this and lots and lots of money.

 

[Dan26]

Why the feck should a membership that doesn't even guarantee access (because they are over-subscribed) be transferrable?

Reserved seat memberships should be transferrable because you pay a premium for the privilege of having your own seat.

Prioritizing supporters of competing club members directly ain't the controversial opinion, unless you are a Gold Essendon member!

Medallion club membership (which also doubles as AFL membership) is transferable. The fact that AFL membership doesn't "technically" guarantee access doesn't mean it shouldn't be transferable. Transferable just means, it's your membership, so if you want to give that membership to someone else to use, then you can and it's within the rules to do so (which isn't the case with AFL membership at the moment). Medallion club is a perfect example of transferable membership.

If I couldn't go to the Grand Final for whatever reason, I'd be happy to give my membership to a supporter of a team in the Grand Final. But i'm not allowed to. Hell, if JackOutback wanted to go to the Granny (and I couldn't go) he could have my membership for the day, but unfortunately, I could lose my membership if I give it to him.

 

[bacon buster]

Why the feck should a membership that doesn't even guarantee access (because they are over-subscribed) be transferrable?

Reserved seat memberships should be transferrable because you pay a premium for the privilege of having your own seat.

Prioritizing supporters of competing club members directly ain't the controversial opinion, unless you are a Gold Essendon member!

I don’t think you really understand how AFL membership works

 

[Bay53]

Now imagine not even having access to that opportunity.

I've been to exactly zero grand finals and that will likely remain the case. This kind of privilege to supporters of football from one state in what is supposed to be a national competition is precisely what's at the heart of this thread.

When were you banned from being an AFL member?

 

[Bay53]

Medallion club membership (which also doubles as AFL membership) is transferable. The fact that AFL membership doesn't "technically" guarantee access doesn't mean it shouldn't be transferable. Transferable just means, it's your membership, so if you want to give that membership to someone else to use, then you can and it's within the rules to do so (which isn't the case with AFL membership at the moment). Medallion club is a perfect example of transferable membership.

If I couldn't go to the Grand Final for whatever reason, I'd be happy to give my membership to a supporter of a team in the Grand Final. But i'm not allowed to. Hell, if JackOutback wanted to go to the Granny (and I couldn't go) he could have my membership for the day, but unfortunately, I could lose my membership if I give it to him.

Giving your membership to someone else is not on because both the MCC membership and AFL members have more eligible members than capacity. The number of full or gold members ks based on the fact that not everyone will want to go every year.

 

[Bay53]

You mean being silver members and getting access to 40 games per year and week 1-3 of finals and GFs

What an "investment"

No change to the system, T&C confirms AFL membership doesn't guarantee access.

Priority is still competing AFL Gold competing club members for GF.

Priority two would be AFL Gold non-competing, but they are just behind Medallion, and club members in terms of reserve capacity...then silver etc.

It is why most Silvers go in the club support ballot anyway (if their club makes it).

If you think AFL membership is such a good deal, why aren’t you a member?

 

[doppleganger]

Technically true, because there are more Gold AFL members than seats, but for all practical purposes, we gold members are guaranteed a seat, provided you know how to use ticketek. It's not difficult.

There are currently 30k Gold or full members, and roughly 15k seats they have access to in the current AFL members reserve.

Back in the 90s there were something like 35k full members, and the reserve allocation was also much larger.

It is clear on the TnCs that there is no guaranteed access. As a greater proportion of stakeholders come from outside of VIC, there will be more pressure to further erode the reserve allocation.

 

[doppleganger]

I'm not sure why this is so "funny". Silver members invest their time and money into the benefits of one day being a Gold AFL member which will give Grand Final access. 20 years time is invested into this and lots and lots of money.

You keep pretending that being a silver member is some kind of sacrifice?

They still get to go to as many games as they want, and get access to finals etc. No different to a 20+ year Eagles member.

But the difference is the 20+ year Eagles member only gets access to GF tickets if the Eagles make it.

 

[Dan26]

There are currently 30k Gold or full members, and roughly 15k seats they have access to in the current AFL members reserve.

Back in the 90s there were something like 35k full members, and the reserve allocation was also much larger.

It is clear on the TnCs that there is no guaranteed access. As a greater proportion of stakeholders come from outside of VIC, there will be more pressure to further erode the reserve allocation.

Whilst we AFL members are “technically” not guaranteed access, for all intents and purposes we are. The AFL only put that in the Ts and Cs, because they have to. I’ve never been locked out of a game that I’ve wanted to go to and I’ve been an AFL member for more than 30 years.

 

[Dan26]

You keep pretending that being a silver member is some kind of sacrifice?

They still get to go to as many games as they want, and get access to finals etc. No different to a 20+ year Eagles member.

But the difference is the 20+ year Eagles member only gets access to GF tickets if the Eagles make it.

Not if the Eagles member is an AFL member. The AFL allows full AFL members who live more than 180kms from Melbourne to take out a “country” membership which is heavily discounted. This discount takes into account they are unable to use the membership to the same extent as most others, yet the benefits are still the same.

 

[Bay53]

Whilst we AFL members are “technically” not guaranteed access, for all intents and purposes we are. The AFL only put that in the Ts and Cs, because they have to. I’ve never been locked out of a game that I’ve wanted to go to and I’ve been an AFL member for more than 30 years.

I am like you, I have been to every game I have wanted to as well, but the reality is there have been grand finals and other games where members have wanted to go and not got tickets - generally Collingwood games.

This year's GF was not one of those games because the tickets were on sale from 2pm to 4pm and there were still tickets available at 3.55pm.

 

[doppleganger]

If I couldn't go to the Grand Final for whatever reason, I'd be happy to give my membership to a supporter of a team in the Grand Final. But i'm not allowed to. Hell, if JackOutback wanted to go to the Granny (and I couldn't go) he could have my membership for the day, but unfortunately, I could lose my membership if I give it to him.

That is the difference of paying for a guaranteed seat, and why Medallion Club membership is $10k, compared to just $740 for AFL Gold.

 

[Dan26]

That is the difference of paying for a guaranteed seat, and why Medallion Club membership is $10k, compared to just $740 for AFL Gold.

There are other benefits to Medallion club membership other than the transferable status. Medalion club members get access to the best seats in prime locations. In fact, they have taken over the best seats in the AFL reserve, and they obviously get outstanding seats at Marvel Stadium, as well as high-end hospitality, gourmet dining options etc

 

[Bay53]

That is the difference of paying for a guaranteed seat, and why Medallion Club membership is $10k, compared to just $740 for AFL Gold.

Correct, Dan26 has a right to try and access a ticket if they choose, but that right is not transferable. The membership is structured so that there will always be some Dan26's that choose not to go - if those Dan26's had the right to give it to someone else, then members would miss out.

There are other memberships such as Medallion Club that include a ticket not a right to apply for a ticket. Those memberships are transferable.

 

[sr36]

Equity is bs, so please don't start there as the conversation can go nowhere

Given the GF is going nowhere for the next 30 years, the bolded part makes sense. However, I suspect the non Vic clubs would be against that.

Otherwise your suggestion removing existing AFL Gold entitlements just seems vindictive

Of course Non-Vic clubs wouldn't want AFL members sections at their grounds. Vic clubs wouldn't either - why would any club want the AFL acting as a competitor that undercuts them and poaches away members with a better value deal.

My question is why are the AFL continuing to do it - it disadvantages Vic clubs. It disadvantages Non-Vic fans. The AFL no longer need the revenue from it. Those whom it benefits are a really small percentage of the percentage of the footy going population. And unlike your view most haven't made this big sacrifice and "earnt" it with their time in the queue. AFL silver membership is a good deal - with or without the waiting list perk.

And no I'm not being vindictive - I've got nothing against AFL members. I've been to a few grand finals and frankly my best GF memories are at BBQs - I don't have a particular desire to go to the GF. But this is just an example where Vicbias is very real in terms of fans (Vic clubs are actually disadvantaged.)

P.S. Equity is BS? What a bizarre view.

 

[Dan26]

If you’re not from Victoria and you want to go to the Grand Final take this AFL membership option below. It’s cheaper. You can use the discount to fund your 11 game home membership with West Coast. If you come to Melbourne a couple of times per year you can go West Coast games for free in the AFL reserve and you get access to the Grand Final when you become a Gold member.

21.8. Country Members: An AFL Gold Member living more than 180 km from the Melbourne CBD (determined in accordance with Australia Post postcode data) will be eligible for the AFL Country Concession. When applying for the AFL Country Concession, the AFL will request proof of residency (for example, a copy of your driver’s licence) to verify your address and eligibility for the AFL Country Concession.

When renewing an AFL Country Concession, an AFL Gold Member will be required to verify their place of residence prior to each renewal period by submitting proof of residency with their renewal application.

 

[Bay53]

Of course Non-Vic clubs wouldn't want AFL members sections at their grounds. Vic clubs wouldn't either - why would any club want the AFL acting as a competitor that undercuts them and poaches away members with a better value deal.

My question is why are the AFL continuing to do it - it disadvantages Vic clubs. It disadvantages Non-Vic fans. The AFL no longer need the revenue from it. Those whom it benefits are a really small percentage of the percentage of the footy going population. And unlike your view most haven't made this big sacrifice and "earnt" it with their time in the queue. AFL silver membership is a good deal - with or without the waiting list perk.

And no I'm not being vindictive - I've got nothing against AFL members. I've been to a few grand finals and frankly my best GF memories are at BBQs - I don't have a particular desire to go to the GF. But this is just an example where Vicbias is very real in terms of fans (Vic clubs are actually disadvantaged.)

P.S. Equity is BS? What a bizarre view.

Other grounds do have stadium member areas. Those areas make a lot of money because they are customers that pay year in year out.

If you enjoy going to BBQs on GF day, keep doing that. I wouldn't know what one was, the only GF I have missed since I was legal drinking age was 2021 and legally I was only able to have one other person with me. (I was in ACT so different rules to Vic).

 

[Bay53]

If you’re not from Victoria and you want to go to the Grand Final take this AFL membership option below. It’s cheaper. You can use the discount to fund your 11 game home membership with West Coast. If you come to Melbourne a couple of times per year you can go West Coast games for free in the AFL reserve and you get access to the Grand Final when you become a Gold member.

21.8. Country Members: An AFL Gold Member living more than 180 km from the Melbourne CBD (determined in accordance with Australia Post postcode data) will be eligible for the AFL Country Concession. When applying for the AFL Country Concession, the AFL will request proof of residency (for example, a copy of your driver’s licence) to verify your address and eligibility for the AFL Country Concession.

When renewing an AFL Country Concession, an AFL Gold Member will be required to verify their place of residence prior to each renewal period by submitting proof of residency with their renewal application.

I have had that concession for over 20 years.

 

[Dan26]

I have had that concession for over 20 years.

Where do you live and how many regular season games (and/or finals) do you go to each year?

 

[sr36]

If I couldn't go to the Grand Final for whatever reason, I'd be happy to give my membership to a supporter of a team in the Grand Final. But i'm not allowed to. Hell, if JackOutback wanted to go to the Granny (and I couldn't go) he could have my membership for the day, but unfortunately, I could lose my membership if I give it to him.

On the one hand you're arguing that AFL members deserve a members area with guarenteed GF tickets for having been in a queue and the history of AFL membership. But this is actually saying: "I deserve it and if I don't attend, I should be able to take the ticket away from a fellow AFL member to give to whoever I want."

 

[Dan26]

On the one hand you're arguing that AFL members deserve a members area with guarenteed GF tickets for having been in a queue and the history of AFL membership. But this is actually saying: "I deserve it and if I don't attend, I should be able to take the ticket away from a fellow AFL member to give to whoever I want."

My view is if you pay for something, it's yours and you should be able to do whatever you want with it. If you don't agree, then that's your opinion.

 

[sr36]

Other grounds do have stadium member areas. Those areas make a lot of money because they are customers that pay year in year out.

Yep - they're akin to the MCC - and not AFL membership.

 

[Bay53]

Where do you live and how many regular season games (and/or finals) do you go to each year?

I live in Brisbane now so I have Brisbane Club Support and I go to a lot of games because I have a reserved seat at the Gabba and a separate Suns membership. But this has only been the last 2 years (good timing I know!) and prior to that I lived 20 years in Canberra.

This year I made two specific trips to Melb in the home and away season and went to 5 games each weekend. I also went to Gather Round. I also saw 3/4s of the Essendon game in Sydney before going to the rugby. Finals I went to Gee V Bris, Bris v GC, Gee v Haw and the GF.

I think it was 39 games in total.

 

[Bay53]

My view is if you pay for something, it's yours and you should be able to do whatever you want with it. If you don't agree, then that's your opinion.

You have bought a right to access a ticket, not a ticket.

 

[Dan26]

You have bought a right to access a ticket, not a ticket.

The argument then becomes: "Is the right to access a ticket" something that should be transferable? Lots of members do this anyway even though it's against the rules.