Local Victorian Womens Footy - General Discussion

[threenewpadlocks]

Actually, it was closed to them.

I just finished interviewing three founders of women's league competitions (SA, WA & Sydney) who all talked about the difficulty of starting up women's sides in the 80s and 90s.

They talk of how many men's clubs didn't want them, they talk of the lack of ground access.

Plus, I'm sure many can refer you to the VCAT case of more than a decade ago where three teenage girls were fighting against then rules which barred them from playing junior footy once they reached 14.

Even without official rules barring them, I'm sure many could tell you about the culture that made them feel unwelcome if they wanted to play. How the attitudes for countless years was that a woman's place should be in the canteen and not out on the field.

There's a quote in Play On (the book) about how a lot of these men's teams were happy to help out the women's teams until they realised that they (back then) were made up of either gay athletes, or those who otherwise didn't exhume femininity. After that the clubs were very reluctant to help out.

 

[Bostonian]

Wow, you are all sorts of not getting it.

Yes, it's hard starting a sports club, there is lots to do, there are lots of obstacles. Every obstacle you faced, a women's club faced. These are 'normal' difficulties.

Then female teams faced another whole layer of difficulty on top. They couldn't even get to the 'normal' problems because of gender discrimination issues.

What exactly are these gender specific issues?

Every issue iv'e seen presented isn't gender specific.

And lazy, that's a cracker. Every club I have been in has involved women behind the scenes running things, working hard. They're also not too lazy to set up netball comps, hockey comps, but when it comes to footy, just to lazy, that must be it. No women's footy teams around, ******* lazy women. Should get of their arse like you. If only they were more like my hero Bostonian, slayer of difficulties, overcomer of obstacles.

Absolutely there's crap loads of lazy people. I'm not talking about those who actually got up off their arse originally and started teams. I'm talking about all these sods who now are crawling out of the woodwork now somebody else is doing the hard work for them.

This "oh I always wanted to play football but I couldn't" bullshit line is just a joke.

Your my hero apologist btw.

Not being allowed to play, not being allowed to use facilities, not getting permission to use ovals. Excuses for laziness. They should have bulldozed an oval with their foreheads, got a knitting circle together, ******* knitted up a changeroom.

Instead, they complained about how tough they had it, how hard it was to get a club together. Imagine Bostonian, complaining about something like that.

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More excuses.

They first formed a league in 1981. Need to stop talking like this new generation of players couldn't have been playing for the last ten years IF they truly wanted too.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Plus, I'm sure many can refer you to the VCAT case of more than a decade ago where three teenage girls were fighting against then rules which barred them from playing junior footy once they reached 14[12]

Actually, prior to 2004, girls could not play comp. AF after they turned 12 y.o. They could play, with boys, in boys' comps. up to the age of 12 (there were no jnr. girls comps. then).

In 2003, 3 girls wanted to play in boys' teams, even though they were 12 y.o. -but they were banned by Football Victoria. These girls (through their parents) then launched an action in the Equal Opportunity Commission, which was then referred to VCAT.
Lengthy submissions were made about the relative (cf boys) strength, endurance etc. of 12 y.o. & teenage girls. VCAT ruled that these 3 girls could continue to play out their 2003 season in the Moorabbin Saints JFL.
VCAT also recommended that the age at which girls could be excluded from playing football in mixed teams be raised from 12 to 14.

Football Victoria was worried that 12-13 y.o. girls, even if they had a robust physique, playing in boys' teams, might have a reasonably high chance of being injured. Higher insurance premiums were also probably a factor. It engaged N. Graves to do a feasibilty study on establishing all girls' comps. It accepted her recommendations, & two girls' comps. began in 2004 -for U13 & U17.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Actually, prior to 2004, girls could not play comp. AF after they turned 12 y.o. They could play, with boys, in boys' comps. up to the age of 12 (there were no jnr. girls comps. then).

In 2003, 3 girls wanted to play in boys' teams, even though they were 12 y.o. -but they were banned by Football Victoria. These girls (through their parents) then launched an action in the Equal Opportunity Commission, which was then referred to VCAT.
Lengthy submissions were made about the relative (cf boys) strength, endurance etc. of 12 y.o. & teenage girls. VCAT ruled that these 3 girls could continue to play out their 2003 season in the Moorabbin Saints JFL.
VCAT also recommended that the age at which girls could be excluded from playing football in mixed teams be raised from 12 to 14.

Football Victoria was worried that 12-13 y.o. girls, even if they had a robust physique, playing in boys' teams, might have a reasonably high chance of being injured. Higher insurance premiums were also probably a factor. It engaged N. Graves to do a feasibilty study on establishing all girls' comps. It accepted her recommendations, & two girls' comps. began in 2014 -for U13 & U17.

Even after that VCAT decision it wasn't necessarily easy for teenage girls to play footy, but sheer virtue of not many teams meaning long distances to train/play games. Even as recently as 5-7 years ago, there was only two or three youth girls competitions covering the whole of Melbourne, two teams in the same division/competition could be an hours drive away. Tough luck if you lived in Vic Country regions as well.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Until now, I could never figure out why Gary Ablett Jr didn't stop playing football at age 14 and go on to pursue a career in basketball, yet Erin Phillips* did. It's because the guy really wanted to play in the AFL and the girl was really lazy. Nothing to do with available pathways. Finally I understand this, thanks to our resident superstar Gaelic athlete and almighty club administrator.

*Venturing outside of Victoria for the highest example, but there have been plenty more in the same mould. Without AFL and government support, the game will continue to disproportionately lose prodigious female talent. If that's no skin off your nose, then there's nothing left to debate--of course you wouldn't see the value in funding women's football infrastructure.

 

[Trugo anyone]

Actually, it was closed to them.

I just finished interviewing three founders of women's league competitions (SA, WA & Sydney) who all talked about the difficulty of starting up women's sides in the 80s and 90s.

They talk of how many men's clubs didn't want them, they talk of the lack of ground access.

Plus, I'm sure many can refer you to the VCAT case of more than a decade ago where three teenage girls were fighting against then rules which barred them from playing junior footy once they reached 14.

Even without official rules barring them, I'm sure many could tell you about the culture that made them feel unwelcome if they wanted to play. How the attitudes for countless years was that a woman's place should be in the canteen and not out on the field.

Just finished listening to those interviews. Fantastic work. Congratulations on all you do. Happy to contribute to keep you doing it. Love it.

As for the peanut you replied to, wouldn't waste your time. I have been guilty of responding to some of these trolls based on the principal that 'evil triumphs when good people do nothing' but at the end of the day it is pointless.

Julia Chiera, Aasta O'Connor, Daisy, Alison Smirnoff and others are doing a great job of seeing off the boofheads in the mainstream media but I think the ones here are best left pi55ing into the wind.

 

[radiojake]

So I just found out the NT Thunder team joining the VWFL will include Adelaide Crows players ina similar agreement that the AFLW team plays under - However it sounds like the Thunder get 6 games in Darwin and the rest of the games in Victoria - will the Crows players basically have to relocate to Melbourne? I know Ebony Marinoff played for Darebin last season and moved over here, I gather she'll play with the Thunder now? It seems a weird arrangement and I think the team will struggle being based so far from Melbourne

 

[BringBackTorps]

H/Sun 4.3 Melb. P. Rolfe (re H/Sun GR Sport Audit) writes:-

."Melbourne councils have decried a widening gap in accessible facilities for the city's growing population that is forcing some sports to turn people away because they don't have enough space".

."Some councils have less space for sports than they did 10 years ago[? -odd comment] and all said they needed more grounds, extra funding, and better facilities to keep up with demand".

." Many Councils said they were also struggling to keep up with a surge in female participation and the need to build women-friendly change rooms".

." Cardinia Council said a growing population and overuse of sporting facilities led many clubs at capacity to cap member numbers or increase them regardless of condition to surfaces".

." Moonee Valley Council, which has increased sporting ovals, netball courts and pavilions over the last 10 years, is working with Moonee Valley Racecourse and schools (my emhasis) to secure even more open space".

. "Sports Oval shortages are so great in the City Of Kingston the council has started looking at landfill sites and asked the government to rezone green space for recreation use".

. " A recent AFL Victoria review estimated the city would need more than 90 additional (wow, my emphasis) football ovals alone by 2022 to cater for the growth of the sport".

(It should be noted that Melb. is growing c.100,000 net pa in the last decade, which is expected to continue.
GR code wars in Vic. appear inevitable now, due to:-
. virtual certainty that female AF regd. nos. will continue to rise strongly
. female AF GR growth will be turbocharged by big clubs imminent entry into the AFLW - Richmond, Essendon, Hawthorn, & Geelong
. GR Clubs are now beginning to realise the significant financial/sponsorship/new volunteers/cultural/ added Council funding etc. benefits of having female teams. Most Clubs, therefore, will be creating/adding female teams : "keep up with the Jones's").

EDIT:

H./Sun 5.3 reported Nullimbik Council wants to sell in Eltham area, outer NE Melb., "...unused bushland...about the size of 2 MCG's" to reduce its debt: one of its reasons is to increase funding for female sporting facilities. Sale plan has created a big backlash by locals.

 

[owen87]

H/Sun 4.3 Melb. P. Rolfe (re H/Sun GR Sport Audit) writes:-

."Melbourne councils have decried a widening gap in accessible facilities for the city's growing population that is forcing some sports to turn people away because they don't have enough space".

."Some councils have less space for sports than they did 10 years ago[my exclamation -odd comment] and all said they needed more grounds, extra funding, and better facilities to keep up with demand".

." Many Councils said they were also struggling to keep up with a surge in female participation and the need to build women-friendly change rooms".

." Cardinia Council said a growing population and overuse of sporting facilities led many clubs at capacity to cap member numbers or increase them regardless of condition to surfaces".

." Moonee Valley Council, which has increased sporting ovals, netball courts and pavilions over the last 10 years, is working with Moonee Valley Racecourse and schools (my emhasis) to secure even more open space".

. "Sports Oval shortages are so great in the City Of Kingston the council has started looking at landfill sites and asked the government to rezone green space for recreation use".

. " A recent AFL Victoria review estimated the city would need more than 90 additional (wow, my emphasis) football ovals alone by 2022 to cater for the growth of the sport".

(It should be noted that Melb. is growing c.100,000 net pa in the last decade, which is expected to continue.
GR code wars in Vic. appear inevitable now, due to:-
. virtual certainty that female AF regd. nos. will continue to rise
. female AF GR growth will be turbocharged by big clubs imminent entry into the AFLW - Richmond, Essendon, Hawthorn, & Geelong
. GR Clubs are now beginning to realise the significant financial/sponsorship/new volunteers/cultural/ added Council funding etc. benefits of having female teams. Most Clubs, therefore, will be creating/adding female teams : "keep up with the Jones's").

Whilst you have reasonable ideas when you post, your style of writing is truly unpleasant to actually read.

 

[Over The Post]

I managed to figure it out without too much trouble. At least it shows thought and summarised without a straight cut'n'paste.

 

[owen87]

I managed to figure it out without too much trouble. At least it shows thought and summarised without a straight cut'n'paste.

The obscure random abbreviations of words is quite jarring; can find time to produce academic style references but can't type registered or numbers out.

As I said; the content and ideas are quite reasonable, but it's difficult to read - and that particular quoted post is one of the less difficult ones.

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[BringBackTorps]

Interesting second hand quote in this afl.com article. It mentioned Hawthorn CEO J. Reeves saying, about its 2018 VFLW team, that"...Hawthorn promises to play an attacking and entertaining (my emphasis) brand of football". Hawthorn wants to be in the AFLW as soon as possible, but is behind the next 6 AFLW-designated Clubs.

Is this a veiled swipe at Carlton & Coll. AFLW teams, & their coaches who have applied heavy flooding, ugly, low scoring game styles?
The AFL probably would have been embarassed/angered at the (heavily hyped) Round 1 nationally FTA televised match between Carlton V. Coll. No goals were kicked in the second half in perfect conditions (except for often blinding lights, as they are too low at Princes Park). The first half was just Ok -total of 3 goals only kicked.
Can the AFL withdraw (or at least threaten to withdraw) a current Club's AFLW licence -if it is abrogating its AFLW licence requirements to also promote the AFLW & female football?
(The other AFLW Clubs are generally playing entertaining, good scoring football).

 

[Teen Wolf]

Interesting second hand quote in this afl.com article. It mentioned Hawthorn CEO J. Reeves saying, about its 2018 VFLW team, that"...Hawthorn promises to play an attacking and entertaining (my emphasis) brand of football". Hawthorn wants to be in the AFLW as soon as possible, but is behind the next 6 AFLW-designated Clubs.

Is this a veiled swipe at Carlton & Coll. AFLW teams, & their coaches who have applied heavy flooding, ugly, low scoring game styles?
The AFL probably would have been embarassed/angered at the (heavily hyped) Round 1 nationally FTA televised match between Carlton V. Coll. No goals were kicked in the second half in perfect conditions (except for often blinding lights, as they are too low at Princes Park). The first half was just Ok -total of 3 goals only kicked.
Can the AFL withdraw (or at least threaten to withdraw) a current Club's AFLW licence -if it is abrogating its AFLW licence requirements to also promote the AFLW & female football?
(The other AFLW Clubs are generally playing entertaining, good scoring football).

It would be ill-informed if it was a swipe at Collingwood. Their matches have progressively improved as a spectacle during this season and they've on average scored (and also conceded) 40 points per game since the first round, which is the second-highest in the league.

 

[jatz14]

Interesting second hand quote in this afl.com article. It mentioned Hawthorn CEO J. Reeves saying, about its 2018 VFLW team, that"...Hawthorn promises to play an attacking and entertaining (my emphasis) brand of football". Hawthorn wants to be in the AFLW as soon as possible, but is behind the next 6 AFLW-designated Clubs.

Is this a veiled swipe at Carlton & Coll. AFLW teams, & their coaches who have applied heavy flooding, ugly, low scoring game styles?
The AFL probably would have been embarassed/angered at the (heavily hyped) Round 1 nationally FTA televised match between Carlton V. Coll. No goals were kicked in the second half in perfect conditions (except for often blinding lights, as they are too low at Princes Park). The first half was just Ok -total of 3 goals only kicked.
Can the AFL withdraw (or at least threaten to withdraw) a current Club's AFLW licence -if it is abrogating its AFLW licence requirements to also promote the AFLW & female football?
(The other AFLW Clubs are generally playing entertaining, good scoring football).

From the club who's president said he is glad they didn't have a female football team, because they hurt themselves to much and should play AFLX?

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[TWLS]

These comments extracted from the AFL CEO Gil McLachlan general remarks yesterday.
He said in fact - "Womens footy in Victoria has grown from 58 teams in 2011 to 1000 teams this year."
That is extraordinary growth by any measure over 6 year period and he neglected to say that facilities are under huge pressure as a result.
Still we will take it in the battle for Womens/Girls recruits across the country.
Before someone asks they were the only references to the Womens game in his remarks, and a lot of us outside Victoria would not have been aware of the staggering growth.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The VAFAW will be adding at least 24 NEW adult female teams in 2018. Some of these 24 will be from Clubs who are forming their first ever adult female team in 2018 -for the others, new teams will be added to Clubs who had a women's team last year.
In its first year in 2017, the VAFAW had, amazingly, 40 women's teams.
There are also discussions about forming a VAFAW Reserves division (for Premier Div. teams) in 2018.
The Lightning Premiership weekend will be used for seeding purposes for the new teams.

https://www.vafa.com.au/latest-news/vafa-wilson-womens-lightning-premiership-weekend-returns/

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[radiojake]

Katie Brennan is the only name mentioned as staying

Vescio and Arnell likely to move to Carlton, while Daisy Pearce taking the season off?

 

[*Crash*]

Those that know more about it than me might have a better idea, but I would think that NT Thunder might be a smokey in the VFLW. Besides the significant home advantage in terms of travel and conditions (and yes the reverse on the southern end) - they could feature a big number of AFLW Crows players.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Katie Brennan is the only name mentioned as staying

Vescio and Arnell likely to move to Carlton, while Daisy Pearce taking the season off?

Unfortunately, now we also have to mention Mel Hickey won't be playing for them, due to doing her ACL on the weekend.

 

[radiojake]

Those that know more about it than me might have a better idea, but I would think that NT Thunder might be a smokey in the VFLW. Besides the significant home advantage in terms of travel and conditions (and yes the reverse on the southern end) - they could feature a big number of AFLW Crows players.

I wonder how many Adelaide based crows will join the Thunder - will be lots of travel - some may find it easier to play sanflw

 

[*Crash*]

112 girls trialing last night for the NFNL U15 girls squad that will play in the metro championships. This will be cut down to a final 52 which will fill two squads one in Div 1 and one in Div 2.

 

[Caputo]

I wonder how many Adelaide based crows will join the Thunder - will be lots of travel - some may find it easier to play sanflw

No Adelaide competition in different order. SANFLW played now in conjunction with AFLW with 6 teams and players then head to AFL (Adelaide Football League). (Teams Adelaide Uni, Morphettville, Salisbury, Wests etc)

 

[jatz14]

I wonder how many Adelaide based crows will join the Thunder - will be lots of travel - some may find it easier to play sanflw

The plan was to have 4 or 5 crows per week. I think the idea is each crow gets the opportunity to play a few games. This might be in addition to NT based crows playing all the games (not sure about that).

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