Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[jason_recliner]

You're so naive.

You don't know what you're talking about if you think people can't hide behind a legitimate front to conduct nefarious activities.

Yeah whatever champ.

 

[faible]

You're so naive.

You don't know what you're talking about if you think people can't hide behind a legitimate front to conduct nefarious activities.

You're correct when you mention people. As in, individuals.

Defunding a 30,000 person aid organisation because of a few individuals (who were fired) seems at-odds with how we'd behave toward any other organisation.

Of course, collectively punishing a group because of the actions of a very small number is pretty much par for the course here.

 

[faible]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-working-to-block-feared-icc-arrest-warrants-against-pm-others-over-gaza-war/

 

[Kurve]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-working-to-block-feared-icc-arrest-warrants-against-pm-others-over-gaza-war/

I saw last night there was word of the ICC about to issue warrants against Netanyahy and a couple of other not so prominent names, had trouble verifying it at the time.

Also reports the assault on Rafah was being stalled over this but then Netanyahu jumped out in defiance.

 

[Bostonian]

I saw last night there was word of the ICC about to issue warrants against Netanyahy and a couple of other not so prominent names, had trouble verifying it at the time.

Also reports the assault on Rafah was being stalled over this but then Netanyahu jumped out in defiance.

Israel isn't bound by the ICC.

Palestine is.

"Israel is not a member of the court, based in The Hague, and does not recognize its jurisdiction, but the Palestinian territories were admitted as a member state in 2015.".

 

[faible]

I saw last night there was word of the ICC about to issue warrants against Netanyahy and a couple of other not so prominent names, had trouble verifying it at the time.

Also reports the assault on Rafah was being stalled over this but then Netanyahu jumped out in defiance.

The New York Times ran a similar article (but paywalled) so it seems there's something to it.

 

[faible]

Israel isn't bound by the ICC.

Palestine is.

"Israel is not a member of the court, based in The Hague, and does not recognize its jurisdiction, but the Palestinian territories were admitted as a member state in 2015.".

All you need to know about the ICC’s arrest warrant for Putin

Court accuses Russian president of responsibility for war crime of illegal deportation of children from Ukraine.

www.aljazeera.com

Would be similar to the Russia and Putin situation, where Netanyahu is basically unable to travel anywhere that's a member state, and obviously isn't a great look for a country that calls itself a democracy.

 

[Jazny]

I wonder if this court existed in WW2 how many national leaders would have been issues arrest warrants?

 

[sydney_gws]

I wonder if this court existed in WW2 how many national leaders would have been issues arrest warrants?

All the axis powers, Germany, Italy, Japan.
I don't think they ever went to the allied countries though .

 

[Jazny]

All the axis powers, Germany, Italy, Japan.
I don't think they ever went to the allied countries though .

If Israel is the standard, I think it would be almost every country involved in the war.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If Israel is the standard, I think it would be almost every country involved in the war.

Problem for Israel is that the evidence is being live streamed in high definition.

 

[sydney_gws]

If Israel is the standard, I think it would be almost every country involved in the war.

Perhaps sport can help. Europe expelled Russia from soccer, perhaps EUFA can do something.

 

[Jazny]

Problem for Israel is that the evidence is being live streamed in high definition.

What a mess Hamas started. War is just unthinkably horrible. The only good thing to come out of it will be the end of that terrorist organization Hamas once and for all and hopefully replaced with leaderships who don't teach genocidal hatred of Israel.

 

[faible]

What a mess Hamas started.

This was going on long before Hamas even existed.

 

[Jazny]

This was going on long before Hamas even existed.

No, it wasn't. If you think this current war was going on before Hamas existed you don't know the first thing about the region. It started on Oct 7th as a result of Hamas's terrost attack. Israel would not be inside Gaza right now flattening the area if it weren't for Hamas's disgusting, unjustified and incredibly stupid terrorist attack on Oct 7th. It's Hamas's fault there is a war.

Of course both sides have grievances over past conflicts, terror attacks, land disputes, settler violence, anti-settler violence, and even past wars, but Hamas's utterly stupid and evil strategy of constantly trying to genocide Israel out of existence is the reason Israel can't live side by side with them.

 

[faible]

No, it wasn't. If you think this current war was going on before Hamas existed you don't know the first thing about the region. It started on Oct 7th as a result of Hamas's terrost attack. Israel would not be inside Gaza right now flattening the area if it weren't for Hamas's disgusting, unjustified and incredibly stupid terrorist attack on Oct 7th. It's Hamas's fault there is a war.

Of course both sides have grievances over past conflicts, terror attacks, land disputes, settler violence, anti-settler violence, and even past wars, but Hamas's utterly stupid and evil strategy of constantly trying to genocide Israel out of existence is the reason Israel can't live side by side with them.

Should try reading up a bit.

2023 in the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There was conflict in Palestine before October 7th.
There was conflict in Palestine before 2023.

If you want an informed discussion on the topic, you might want to try reading a bit further.

No Nation State has ever been less responsible for their own actions. The only people responsible for the genocide Israel is enacting right now, is Israel. They can stop dropping bombs any time they like. They can stop restricting aid any time they like. They can stop stealing land in the West Bank any time they like.

Hamas isn't in control here. The millions of Palestinian civilians being starved, slaughtered and displaced are most certainly not in control here.

 

[Jazny]

Should try reading up a bit.

2023 in the State of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There was conflict in Palestine before October 7th.
There was conflict in Palestine before 2023.

Read my second paragraph. Nobody disputed there were past and current tensions, conflicts, grievances and tit for tat attacks prior to Oct 7th, the current WAR started on Oct 7th when Hamas launched their unprecedented terror attack against Israel.

Timeline of the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Latest | Israeli airstrikes on Rafah kill at least 22 people

Palestinian health officials say Israeli airstrikes on the southern Gaza city of Rafah have killed at least 22 people, including six women and five children.

apnews.com

"The Israel-Hamas war was sparked by the unprecedented Oct. 7 raid into southern Israel in which militants killed around 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and abducted around 250 hostages"

Do you seriously think for a second that Israel was going to declare war on Hamas on Oct 8th anyway even if Oct 7th didn't happen and then they would send their military into Gaze to eliminate Hamas? Again, if you actually believe that you know nothing about what's going on over there. Hamas started this war.

The only people responsible for the genocide Israel is enacting right now, is Israel.

There is no genocide. It's a war, in war civilian casualties are extremely high. War is awful. Israel is not trying to genocide Palestinians, they are trying to eliminate Hamas. Do you think Israel has a policy of deliberately targeting civilians just to kill them with zero military reason for doing so?

They can stop dropping bombs any time they like. They can stop restricting aid any time they like. They can stop stealing land in the West Bank any time they like.

Hamas could stop this at any time by surrendering, stop shooting rockets into Israel, releasing their hostages, stop using their own citizens as human shields and disbanding their terrorist organisation and allowing free and fair elections in their territory.

 

[faible]

There is no genocide.

Even the ICJ found there was a plausible risk of genocide months ago.

Anything else you write is meaningless when you aren't even willing to accept what the ICJ finds to be plausibly at risk of occurring.

Funny how so many people are so opposed to what Russia is doing in Ukraine, yet are somehow finding themselves supporting Israel doing things that are at least as bad in Gaza.

Israel has told you what they're trying to do, there's pages of quotes in the submission to the ICJ of high ranking Israeli officials telling us that what they're doing is exactly what they're trying to do. Mass displacement of Palestinian civilians.

Either the IDF is the single most incompetent military outfit the world has ever seen, causing civilian death, injury and displacement on a scale rarely or never seen before, or it's intentional.

Seems to me like you've exclusively read Israeli propaganda and have decided that's the only possible version of events.

 

[Jazny]

Even the ICJ found there was a plausible risk of genocide months ago.

Anything else you write is meaningless when you aren't even willing to accept what the ICJ finds to be plausibly at risk of occurring.

That court ruling does not support you statement that Israel is committing genocide. They weren't even ordered to cease their operation in Gaza.

Funny how so many people are so opposed to what Russia is doing in Ukraine, yet are somehow finding themselves supporting Israel doing things that are at least as bad in Gaza.

I don't remember Ukraine launching a major terrorist attack murdering, raping, and brutalizing Russian citizens as well as launching thousands of rockets into Russia. Unlike Russia, Israel's goal isn't even to gain land, it's to defeat the terrorists Hamas. Also unlike Russia, Israel do have kind of a morally correct reason to go to war, even if I think war was not the answer, as far as reasons to go to war are concerned, they have a very strong one.

Israel has told you what they're trying to do, there's pages of quotes in the submission to the ICJ of high ranking Israeli officials telling us that what they're doing is exactly what they're trying to do. Mass displacement of Palestinian civilians.

Either the IDF is the single most incompetent military outfit the world has ever seen, causing civilian death, injury and displacement on a scale rarely or never seen before, or it's intentional.

Rarely seen? Would be interested to know how you support that. Among wars, this kind of death and injury is very common unfortunately.

 

[faible]

That court ruling does not support you statement that Israel is committing genocide. They weren't even ordered to cease their operation in Gaza.

Ah yes. The talking point all the pro-Israel people rolled out immediately after the verdict as though it somehow wipes away everything else the ICJ said.

I don't remember Ukraine launching a major terrorist attack murdering, raping, and brutalizing Russian citizens as well as launching thousands of rockets into Russia. Unlike Russia, Israel's goal isn't even to gain land, it's to defeat the terrorists Hamas. Also unlike Russia, Israel do have kind of a morally correct reason to go to war, even if I think war was not the answer, as far as reasons to go to war are concerned, they have a very strong one.

They've been killing Palestinians for decades. Is that the morally correct reasoning?

Rarely seen? Would be interested to know how you support that. Among wars, this kind of death and injury is very common unfortunately.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/

“The scale of Palestinian civilian deaths in such a short period of time appears to be the highest such civilian casualty rate in the 21st century,” said Michael Lynk

https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-palestine/prof-s-michael-lynk-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian-territory-occupied-1967

 

[Zidane98]

Even the ICJ found there was a plausible risk of genocide months ago.

This would be the case in pretty much all major wars.

Anything else you write is meaningless when you aren't even willing to accept what the ICJ finds to be plausibly at risk of occurring.

Again, risk of genocidal actions is something that happens in any large scale war.

Funny how so many people are so opposed to what Russia is doing in Ukraine, yet are somehow finding themselves supporting Israel doing things that are at least as bad in Gaza.

I wouldn't call it funny myself at all. Ukraine at the hands of Russians has suffered millions of deaths, been starved for a decade, had Russian incompetence cause a part of the state of Ukraine to be completely uninhabitable.

Russians have been trying to destroy Ukranian language, culture & statehood for over a century now (see bans on Ukranian speaking in Donbass late 19th / early 20th century combined with mass Russification).

So Ukraine's suffered millions of deaths at the hands of the Russians and they keep trying to attack the place, take it over and generally dismiss Ukraine's right to exist. Do Ukranians launch terror attacks in response? The answer is no.

Israel has told you what they're trying to do, there's pages of quotes in the submission to the ICJ of high ranking Israeli officials telling us that what they're doing is exactly what they're trying to do. Mass displacement of Palestinian civilians.

We all can cherry pick what people say and put any context to it what we want.







There's countless examples of this during the war but you choose to only repeat Hamas rhetoric which generally involves saying every single person killed in Gaza during the war is deliberately murdered (Hamas are responsible for killing thousands of civilians in Gaza and all Hamas members killed are not civilians even if you repeat Hamas propaganda which labels them as civilians).

The truth is somewhere in the middle and we will find out post war but I am happy in the knowledge that I don't repeat Hamas propaganda which is blatantly false almost word for word.




Meanwhile Iran, Hezobollah, Hamas etc have been declaring for decades they want Jews / Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

Either the IDF is the single most incompetent military outfit the world has ever seen, causing civilian death, injury and displacement on a scale rarely or never seen before, or it's intentional.

Seems to me like you've exclusively read Israeli propaganda and have decided that's the only possible version of events.

The IDF is up against Hamas/Iran/Hezbollah as a collective who all declare their hatred for Jews and declare their intent for the destruction of the state of Israel - an action of genocide. This doesn't seem to be a problem for you which is strange when you are so concerned about the possibility of genocide.


We can all agree the scale is horrific, Israel should pay for their war crimes in a war crime tribunal post war. That's exactly what it is, a war crime.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

This would be the case in pretty much all major wars.


Again, risk of genocidal actions is something that happens in any large scale war.


I wouldn't call it funny myself at all. Ukraine at the hands of Russians has suffered millions of deaths, been starved for a decade, had Russian incompetence cause a part of the state of Ukraine to be completely uninhabitable.

Russians have been trying to destroy Ukranian language, culture & statehood for over a century now (see bans on Ukranian speaking in Donbass late 19th / early 20th century combined with mass Russification).

So Ukraine's suffered millions of deaths at the hands of the Russians and they keep trying to attack the place, take it over and generally dismiss Ukraine's right to exist. Do Ukranians launch terror attacks in response? The answer is no.


We all can cherry pick what people say and put any context to it what we want.







There's countless examples of this during the war but you choose to only repeat Hamas rhetoric which generally involves saying every single person killed in Gaza during the war is deliberately murdered (Hamas are responsible for killing thousands of civilians in Gaza and all Hamas members killed are not civilians even if you repeat Hamas propaganda which labels them as civilians).

The truth is somewhere in the middle and we will find out post war but I am happy in the knowledge that I don't repeat Hamas propaganda which is blatantly false almost word for word.




Meanwhile Iran, Hezobollah, Hamas etc have been declaring for decades they want Jews / Israel wiped off the face of the earth.


The IDF is up against Hamas/Iran/Hezbollah as a collective who all declare their hatred for Jews and declare their intent for the destruction of the state of Israel - an action of genocide. This doesn't seem to be a problem for you which is strange when you are so concerned about the possibility of genocide.


We can all agree the scale is horrific, Israel should pay for their war crimes in a war crime tribunal post war. That's exactly what it is, a war crime.

How many aid workers have Hamas killed?
How many doctors have Hamas killed?
How many hospitals, universities, schools etc have Hamas destroyed?
How many journalists have Hamas killed?
How many famines have Hamas caused?
How many aid trucks have Hamas blocked?
How much land has Hamas stolen from Israel?

Now compare those numbers to what Israel has done.

 

[Jazny]

Ah yes. The talking point all the pro-Israel people rolled out immediately after the verdict as though it somehow wipes away everything else the ICJ said.

All you have are talking points. What else did the ICJ say that supported your claim Israel was committing genocide?

They've been killing Palestinians for decades. Is that the morally correct reasoning?

Palestinians have been killing Israelis for decades.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/

https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-palestine/prof-s-michael-lynk-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian-territory-occupied-1967

Wait first you claimed "Either the IDF is the single most incompetent military outfit the world has ever seen, causing civilian death, injury and displacement on a scale rarely or never seen before"

Now your claim seems to be "in the initial months of the war, they caused civilian death, injury and displacement on at a rate we havent seen this century if you compare them to US-Led wars?" But even then they are pretty comparable if you look at the figures now and compare them to the casualties per year in the Iraq war... I don't really know how this supports genocide but okay.

 

[faible]

This would be the case in pretty much all major wars.


Again, risk of genocidal actions is something that happens in any large scale war.


I wouldn't call it funny myself at all. Ukraine at the hands of Russians has suffered millions of deaths, been starved for a decade, had Russian incompetence cause a part of the state of Ukraine to be completely uninhabitable.

Russians have been trying to destroy Ukranian language, culture & statehood for over a century now (see bans on Ukranian speaking in Donbass late 19th / early 20th century combined with mass Russification).

So Ukraine's suffered millions of deaths at the hands of the Russians and they keep trying to attack the place, take it over and generally dismiss Ukraine's right to exist. Do Ukranians launch terror attacks in response? The answer is no.


We all can cherry pick what people say and put any context to it what we want.







There's countless examples of this during the war but you choose to only repeat Hamas rhetoric which generally involves saying every single person killed in Gaza during the war is deliberately murdered (Hamas are responsible for killing thousands of civilians in Gaza and all Hamas members killed are not civilians even if you repeat Hamas propaganda which labels them as civilians).

The truth is somewhere in the middle and we will find out post war but I am happy in the knowledge that I don't repeat Hamas propaganda which is blatantly false almost word for word.




Meanwhile Iran, Hezobollah, Hamas etc have been declaring for decades they want Jews / Israel wiped off the face of the earth.


The IDF is up against Hamas/Iran/Hezbollah as a collective who all declare their hatred for Jews and declare their intent for the destruction of the state of Israel - an action of genocide. This doesn't seem to be a problem for you which is strange when you are so concerned about the possibility of genocide.


We can all agree the scale is horrific, Israel should pay for their war crimes in a war crime tribunal post war. That's exactly what it is, a war crime.

I assume this will be the usual thing where you don’t actually say much of substance, misrepresent most of what I’ve written, and somehow pretend Israel aren’t slaughtering people.

Anyone want to confirm if this is an accurate summary?

 

[faible]

All you have are talking points. What else did the ICJ say that supported your claim Israel was committing genocide?

Plausible risk of genocide.

Many genocide experts believe it IS genocide.

I’m comfortable with my assessment.
I’m comfortable in not supporting Israel’s actions.
I’m comfortable in not supporting Hamas’ actions.