Jazny
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Who are the most convincing ones? Let's go through their reasoning.
Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict
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Mate you’re talking about things people were flagging 6 months ago. It’s not new, I’m not going to handhold you and I simply don’t have the time nor energy to try.
If you don’t want to go at all out of your way to find out more, there’s literal months of discussion in multiple threads on BigFooty for you.
Jazny
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For sure that's the reason why. All that energy it takes to cite expert opinions you have already read which has formed the basis of your belief that Israel is committing genocide
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For sure that's the reason why. All that energy it takes to cite expert opinions you have already read which has formed the basis of your belief that Israel is committing genocide
I'd suggest the expert opinions are much more accurate than hasbara and junket journalism.
But you and Zurg seem to think otherwise.
Jazny
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Which experts have you read? Why do you take their opinion over the experts who disagree with them?
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Jazny
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More accurately that's Francesca Albanese. She the expert you listen to?
A guess a mature debate would entail providing alternative expert opinion. What expert opinion have you referred to in this assertion? I would take any expert opinion from Israel/Israel connections with a grain of salt - it would really need to be independent expert - which for us mug punters would be hard to verify readily
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One of many.
Israel Not Complying with World Court Order in Genocide Case
The Israeli government has failed to comply with at least one measure in the legally binding order from the International Court of Justice, in South Africa’s genocide case.
South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention) - Wikipedia
Jazny
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You shouldn't dismiss someone's argument because of where they are from or who they are connected to. It's pretty easy to do that to Francesca Albanese but I think her arguments can stand on their own if they are good enough.
If someone is going to claim they believe Israel is committing genocide because of 'experts', I just want to see which expert they have been listening to. It's usually not hard to find experts who agree or disagree with what you want to believe on any topic. You can find climate change experts who say climate change is not caused by humans if you want to. Some people also claim to listen to experts, but then can't even tell you which experts.
I guess the more interesting question around genocide is do you guys believe Israel does not intend to just destroy Hamas, but also the Palestinian people in Gaza? And do you think they have justification for declaring war against Hamas in the first place?
Just a quick response as just finished work and preparing dinner.You shouldn't dismiss someone's argument because of where they are from or who they are connected to. It's pretty easy to do that to Francesca Albanese but I think her arguments can stand on their own if they are good enough.
If someone is going to claim they believe Israel is committing genocide because of 'experts', I just want to see which expert they have been listening to. It's usually not hard to find experts who agree or disagree with what you want to believe on any topic. You can find climate change experts who say climate change is not caused by humans if you want to. Some people also claim to listen to experts, but then can't even tell you which experts.
I guess the more interesting question around genocide is do you guys believe Israel does not intend to just destroy Hamas, but also the Palestinian people in Gaza? And do you think they have justification for declaring war against Hamas in the first place?
Well to be honest, i find nothing interesting around the topic of genocide.
Im confused to who are us guys, id love clarification on that
It does not matter what my thoughts are, rather what matters is mass innocent death is occuring, homelands are being destroyed... dont care about petty semi academic debate.... innocent people are being murdered at mass levels.... it needs to stop. You would agree wouldnt you
Jazny
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Just whoever was in the thread to discuss the topic and felt like answering.
Yes, I want it to stop! But I don't see how Hamas can continue to be a thing. They need to surrender or at least accept the ceasefire terms asap before the full Rafah operation for the sake of the innocent civilians of Gaza.
Also this thread is a war crimes thread so perhaps not the right thread if you aren't interested in the legal/academic debates.
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For someone who claims to not support Hamas you seem to have be very comfortable repeating Hamas propaganda literally straight out of their playbook.
Others will confirm this.
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One of many.
Israel Not Complying with World Court Order in Genocide Case
The Israeli government has failed to comply with at least one measure in the legally binding order from the International Court of Justice, in South Africa’s genocide case.www.hrw.org
South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
What did these experts have to say about the genocide of 160000 Palestinian civilians in Yarmouk over 5 years by Assad (South African ally) including withholding water, electricity & food?
As you say they are experts in genocide. Can you show me their thoughts on this genocide of Palestinians?
What a weird warping of history. They were in Syria because they had been cleansed from Israel in the Nakba
During the Syrian civil war the camp(really a suburb of Damascus) was attacked by the free Syrian Army(little terroristy) and defended by Palestinians(PFLP) with Syrian govt support. Most of the civilians fled in intense fighting(your 160,000 number) to other parts of Damascus.
Later when ISIS rolled through, which Israel refused to do any about going so far as the attack the IRCG fighting ISIS, the town was blockaded by the Assad regime, resulting in famine. The population was already greatly reduced and they did eventually see aid after ISIS was routed.
Which bit of this is genocide?
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Whataboutism, hasbara. Do you have any other hobbies?
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For sure that's the reason why. All that energy it takes to cite expert opinions you have already read which has formed the basis of your belief that Israel is committing genocide
Let's be honest here, it won't matter to you who I cite. You've determined your version of events and that's that.
Meanwhile, the UN believes Israel are preparing to bomb Rafah. That small section of Gaza they've herded 1.2 million Palestinian civilians in to.
UN warns Israel assault on Gaza's Rafah on 'immediate horizon'
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) -The United Nations on Tuesday warned that an Israeli assault on Rafah in the Gaza Strip was "on the immediate horizon" and that "incremental" progress by Israel on aid access to the enclave could not be used to prepare for or justify an operation. U.N...
I'm comfortable with being opposed to this kind of stuff.
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Please cite any Hamas propaganda I've cited.
While you're at it, please cite what I've said about Hamas time and time again, in direct replies to you and others.
You're absolutely cooked mate.
- Dec 22, 2009
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You have many times repeated the false claim that Israel has murdered over 30,000 Israeli civilians in Gaza. That's one of many.
Your that cooked or you repeat Hamas propaganda that often you don't even realise you are doing it these days.
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Never a more guilty person than one who can only come up with an accusation in response.
Thanks for confirming you don't have an issue with the genocide of 160000 Palestinians by Assad. We get it - you only care when Israel is the other side.
Hanaa politburo have a job waiting for you.
Jazny
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Are your comfortable with the continued existence of Hamas? An actual genocidal regime that actually deliberately kills civilians and boasts about it?
jason_recliner
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Assuming you mean Gazan civilians, how is verifiable fact "propaganda"? Israel has murdered those civilians.
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IDF have killed 40x as many civilians, so they are 40x more genocidal than Hamas.
That is what you support.
jason_recliner
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How many times has he said Hamas needs to go? Have you read this thread? How is Hamas an "actual genocidal regime" and Israeli government is not? How many Israeli civilians has Hamas killed? How many Palestinian civilians has IDF killed? Which one is more genocidal? They both need to be tried and held accountable for war crimes, they both (Hamas and IDF/War Council) need to go.
- Dec 22, 2009
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Hamas include all Hamas fighters in their casualty figures. Reliable reports are that over 10,000 Hamas fighters have been killed in the war and that Hamas are down to between 5-8000 fighters left before they all fled to Rafah. They also include the thousands and thousands they have killed during their attacks on Israel. Something like nearly 1000 rockets have failed and impacted in Gaza since Hamas launched its unprovoked war on Jewish civilians. You won't hear about it from Hamas but each of those failed rocket attacks usually kill Gazan civilians. In the 2022 attack (which Hamas declared a truce afterwards to not attack Israel btw) within 2 days Hamas had killed 14 civilians in failed rocket attacks.
2022 Gaza–Israel clashes - Wikipedia
After launching nearly 15,000 rockets in 7 months with a usual failure rate of 20% I will let you come to your own conclusions how many Gazan civilians Hamas has killed.
The one at the Ah-Ahli hospital killed hundreds of Gazans and that is simply added to the tally of total deaths. It must also be pointed out that initially the Gazan health ministry put out a report that nearly 1000 civilians had been murdered and that the hospital had been levelled. This of course quickly changed when it was discovered not to be the case and that they were actually responsible for the deaths in the courtyard of the hospital. There's also Gazan civilians who are executed for attempting to help Hamas be captured. Nobody seems to care about those, seems easier to just attribute them all to Israel.
Anyone who repeats the Hamas mantra that all deaths in the war are civilians being murdered by Israel are knowingly repeating blatantly false Hamas propaganda.
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