Warner

[The Passenger]

I didn't see his 76 runs today, but I saw his 104 yesterday and he didn't get them batting T20 style, he made them with solid aggressive legitimate cricket strokes. He picked the correct shot for the type of ball he faced, he didn't manufacture anything. I didn't once see him turn himself inside out for a reverse sweep, or any other insane T20 shot.

yeah but he went at run a ball (quicker actually)... he had to have done something stupid.

 

[Selective Retention]

Note to commentators he is not the first test player to come from the T20 ranks.

T20 made Watson, his career really turned around after that initial season in the IPL.

 

[Bombertastic]

Obviously he has some issues to work on defensively, but really, guys like Sehwag, Gayle and Jayasuria have never been renowned for their defensively solidarity, and all have had excellent test careers. They're at the opposite end of the spectrum, in that you can win a test match in half an hour just as much as you can lose one. It's some ability to be able to completely demoralise an attack in the space of ten overs.

We'll find out more against South Africa especially, and obviously outside Australia, but he is such a uniquely talented cricketer that I hope we stick through the few inevitable low scores.

The point of the matter (and one which others have expressed quite well) is that this isn't exactly what we need and the jury is still out on it actually coming to reality.

That said Gayle averages just over 40 (same with Jayasuria) and at a strike rate of 59. He has shown more restraint and ability to build an innings then most would realise and a solid enough defense when the time is needed.

I look at Warners List A record and see someone who doesn't perform with consistency. This would suggest to me that it's hit or miss. Test cricket is indeed a different form. However so far he's shown an inability to play any other way then with aggression.

Sehwag is the one that stands out but with him it's not unlike Warner and Jayasuria. However a decade on flat sub continent wickets has helped in his case.

 

[Bombertastic]

There is a bit of a difference between seeing off the Kiwis at home and taking on England or India as a tourist.

Watson, Haddin, Ponting, even Clarke - we have plenty of batsmen capable of giving it some stick when the going is good. Perhaps not as quickly I grant you, but it's simply not necessary at test level. What we ARE desperate for is an opener who can grind out a test innings against quality opposition.

Warner is a spud defensively - always has been, always will be. If we take him to England, every innings we will be one down for not very many.

One innings against a minnow like NZ doesn't change that.

Well said.

 

[The Passenger]

stats!!! haven't seen you around lately!!

the jury is out, and it will be out for some time. anyone playing in his style with have critics and even if he is averaging 70 (hypothetical for the purpose of this argument) after 50 tests, he could go 4 tests without making 30 and then all the critics would come out of the woodwork "see i told you he'd get figured out eventually"....

but at the moment, he's clearly australian most in form opener, and if he works as an opener, it's a weapon that no other international team has.

as i said. a number six getting a run a ball ton hurts an opposition, but an opener doing it, basically kills the opposition. they don't know what the **** has happened, and it's basically game over.

 

[Bombertastic]

stats!!! haven't seen you around lately!!

the jury is out, and it will be out for some time. anyone playing in his style with have critics and even if he is averaging 70 (hypothetical for the purpose of this argument) after 50 tests, he could go 4 tests without making 30 and then all the critics would come out of the woodwork "see i told you he'd get figured out eventually"....

but at the moment, he's clearly australian most in form opener, and if he works as an opener, it's a weapon that no other international team has.

as i said. a number six getting a run a ball ton hurts an opposition, but an opener doing it, basically kills the opposition. they don't know what the **** has happened, and it's basically game over.

I've been busy mate. Where's Ian been? Perhaps his last red card was permanent.

Seriously though, an average of 70 after 50 test and I'll put a poster of him up on my wall and lick his shoes clean after every innings.

I'm not saying drop him but the casual observer and follower is falling over themselves in praise and it irks me.

My point from the beginning was simply the way he was ear marked before he even made his first class debut and the reasons he was picked included marketability.

The talent pool in Australia is diminishing by the day and lets face it he's fun to watch and that's exactly what the powers that be want. I still believe he may be better down the order. There are going to be days and perhaps series against better attacks where he will struggle.

 

[E Shed]

Wow, I've been away for the weekend, didn't hear or see any play today. Checked the scorecard and assumed this thread would be full of praise for Warner. I hadn't realised it's bad to score 180 odd at better than a run a ball. You guys have got tough standards.

 

[The Passenger]

I've been busy mate. Where's Ian been? Perhaps his last red card was permanent.

??

My point from the beginning was simply the way he was ear marked before he even made his first class debut and the reasons he was picked included marketability.

maybe. though the new south wales first class selectors seemed to be missing something.

"that" match against south africa was in january of 2009. in 2008/09 grade cricket he scored 550 runs in 9 matches, at 78 including 4 tons. he finally got one (!!) shield game at the end of 08/09 and a few sporadic games through 09/10 some more at the end of 10/11 ....

in 07/08 he scored 760 runs at 54 including 2 tons... 06/07 700 runs at 40. HS; 95*...

he basically had to do a trent copeland to get into the state team... the only difference was dave is 100000 x more talented than trent. (albeit in different fields.) incidentally i don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, making guys really earn their selection from the grade below. but in the context of the way some guys have been pushed through, warner's continual ommisions from the state teams were very hard to explain. in my ideal world no one, aside from prodigious talents (cummins like) would play test cricket before 22/23 (that theory is for another thread)... so maybe warner's path to the big time has been a good thing.

even before his performance against south africa there were many people who couldn't understand why he hadn't been given a shot at shield cricket.

maybe the australian selectors were just making up for lost ground....??

 

[estibador]

Wow, I've been away for the weekend, didn't hear or see any play today. Checked the scorecard and assumed this thread would be full of praise for Warner. I hadn't realised it's bad to score 180 odd at better than a run a ball. You guys have got tough standards.

He's a polarising figure is Warner. Must admit I scoffed when I heard he'd been named for his test debut but he's won me over now.

When I'm watching him I tend to praise him as much for the balls he leaves as those he smacks for boundaries. I think he has better temperament than people give him credit for sometimes (me included).

You'd think he swung wildly at every ball the way some people talk, but his shot selection was actually quite good - its just that when he goes he goes very hard. That straight drive he hit for six was barely more than a defensive jab - that's more than a slogger at work, that's some beautiful technique and timing.

His defensive technique is more solid than I initially gave him credit for too - far more solid than Hughes for example.

He'll always be hit and miss I feel, much like Sehwag, but as long as someone like Cowan is down the other end to balance it out it's a risk worth having, because like Sehwag he can also win you a test match in one session.

 

[krisholio14]

Most of you guys should be thankful you won't be posting here in 10 years, because this bloke is going to have you eating crow.

 

[BuntonRules]

Gotta agree with the last 2 posts - this bloke is an enormous talent, Just such a gifted sportsman.

Bet U a carton he retires 1 of the greats. And Australian Captain.

What a gift to the game, poster boy 4 the future. Who can sell test cricket 2 the next generation better than Davey Warner?

 

[krisholio14]

Gotta agree with the last 2 posts - this bloke is an enormous talent, Just such a gifted sportsman.

Bet U a carton he retires 1 of the greats. And Australian Captain.

What a gift to the game, poster boy 4 the future. Who can sell test cricket 2 the next generation better than Davey Warner?

Thanks for agreeing with me

The one thing i'll say right now is I don't agree with the comparisons to Sehwag.

Sehwag has a great eye and is a powerful hitter, but he has a poor technique and temperament. There is no way he would ever have scored a ton on the same pitch under the same circumstances as Davey's in Hobart the other week.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Warner is the best thing to happen to Australian cricket since Warne

 

[aussie1st]

Hope Warner went back to the dressing room and kicked himself for that dismissal.

He had the field spread, a double century for the taking, and India absolutely at a loss as to where to bowl to him.

His dismissal precipitated a batting collapse and if India weren't so disinterested it might have hurt Australia.

When you're in you need to feast.

It was annoying listening to the Ch 9 commentators wank on about how revolutionary Warner is, rather than one of them mention he threw away a double century, especially as it came in the shadows of Clarke's 329*.

I'm pretty sure the multiple blows he copped in that innings caught up to him. The way he played after lunch was noticeably different to the way he played the last 2 sessions.

 

[Portmanteau]

This guy is an absolute beast. Gives us the destructive power we've lacked since Gilchrist and is an outstanding fielder.

I think people aren't giving him enough credit in suggesting he won't be able to adapt to English or South African conditions - he has proven over his summer that he is not a one-dimensional player. In fact, his ability to refine his game from T20 specialist to budding test star earns him the utmost of respect in my view.

Doesn't bowl a bad leggie either!

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Wow, I've been away for the weekend, didn't hear or see any play today. Checked the scorecard and assumed this thread would be full of praise for Warner. I hadn't realised it's bad to score 180 odd at better than a run a ball. You guys have got tough standards.

Well said. I didn't realise we weren't allowed to give praise to a guy who just made 180 in a Test match. Let's face it, the game's changing and as supporters we have to change with it. I don't necessarily like it, but that's the way of the world.

You know, back in the mid-late 1920s, a player came along who was totally unorthodox according to standards of the time. He changed the way the game was played. His name was Bradman. People were critical of his crude batting in the beginning but changed their minds about him as time progressed.

And before idiots start carrying on, I'm not making comparisons between Bradman and Warner, I'm just making a point that the game is continually changing and evolving. Just because Warner may not meet our ideal of the perfect Test opener, doesn't mean he won't be successful.

 

[Father Jack]

It's like arguing about religion, people will have their pet theories regardless of what happens in the real world.

I reckon it's very petty not to give the guy his due after two tons in four tests, especially when just about every other batsman in both games struggled.

 

[Mcveigh]

He should be picked for his fielding alone! I reckon he would save 20 runs per test match atleast, plus he also influences wickets taken because he doesn't let the batsmen rotate strike as easily as they would like...

 

[Mcveigh]

Oh... And he could catch a bullet.

 

[Blue and Gold Blood]

This board is so boring and conservative sometimes. We have to squash anyone with some flair who is different, same reason so many posters here were scared about us taking 4 pacemen to the WACA.

God no, don't try that it's not normal! Please..

What the hell, i agree with a Sydney Swans fan wholeheartedly. Bring on the Footy season dammit

Warner has won me over. Obviously has great skill and he absolutely blunts the new ball. He put Australia in a position to win this test on Day 2. How is that a bad thing?

 

[Outshined]

Warner could score a double hundred on a greentop against England and still draw criticism. As others have said, it comes with being such a polarising figure given his unconventional approach to test cricket. I expect there will be far more revelling in his failures than those appreciating his good innings.

In saying that, calling him a flat track bully is laughable when he's just scored 180 on a pitch that is anything but flat. Equally laughable is the suggestion that he's bound to fail in England. Thank you for that one Nostradamus.

 

[Bomber Bears]

The thing which pisses me off about the whole Warner commentary is how they say only a year ago he was a short form player only, it's amazing how quickly he's become a test player. Give Warner a disservice, because if anything the 'short form' stereotype has held him back in the longer form. He had to absolutely bash the door down with grade form, 7 years of grade cricket averaging 50, before he got a decent crack at the Shield side last season. He's had to work a shitload harder than some other players around shield cricket (Starc, M Marsh for example) to get a shot.

can't disagree with much of that at all to be honest.

interestingly north sydney have struggled in recent times in grade cricket so they are probaly suffering from a lack of talent in the immediate area as well...

re; indigenous kids, it's interesting, but also sad that a lot of the eastern subrubs schools "communities" have expressed "concerns" about the influx of indigineous and islander boys into the private school systems who have been recruited to come play rugby union...

Yeah but the Eastern Suburbs communities are full of as many scumbags as any other, they just have alot more money and influence with their form of scumbaggery.

Norths have done alright the last couple of years in grade, better performances.

 

[Bombertastic]

??



maybe. though the new south wales first class selectors seemed to be missing something.

"that" match against south africa was in january of 2009. in 2008/09 grade cricket he scored 550 runs in 9 matches, at 78 including 4 tons. he finally got one (!!) shield game at the end of 08/09 and a few sporadic games through 09/10 some more at the end of 10/11 ....

in 07/08 he scored 760 runs at 54 including 2 tons... 06/07 700 runs at 40. HS; 95*...

he basically had to do a trent copeland to get into the state team... the only difference was dave is 100000 x more talented than trent. (albeit in different fields.) incidentally i don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, making guys really earn their selection from the grade below. but in the context of the way some guys have been pushed through, warner's continual ommisions from the state teams were very hard to explain. in my ideal world no one, aside from prodigious talents (cummins like) would play test cricket before 22/23 (that theory is for another thread)... so maybe warner's path to the big time has been a good thing.

even before his performance against south africa there were many people who couldn't understand why he hadn't been given a shot at shield cricket.

maybe the australian selectors were just making up for lost ground....??

I'll agree with all that. I remember at the time there were a lot of players vying for a spot in the NSW side. If he played for another state he would probably have gotten a go at first class a lot quicker although it might have hurt his baggy green ambitions (not being from NSW).

 

[Borisdog]

Early days for Warner obviously.

The thing that really impresses me with him is he clearly has a strong desire to succeed and be the best he can. Everything he does is completely whole-hearted. He has tried, successfully, to get the selectors to see him as something other than just a 20/20 player for instance.

Add that attitude to a bit of talent and a bloke can go a long way.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Why is his ODI record so average? Not saying it matters in the slightest, just curious as I'd expect him to average around 30 at least.