Roast WC Need to do Something About Their Recruiting.

[lewigie]

I do rate Acres, and I think Cripps is pretty overrated (it's just because he's a shining light in a terrible Victorian side) but Acres really hasn't shown that much recently. He's not showing much for St Kilda and isn't consistently in the side and they're pretty shit

 

[lewigie]

Not sure if anyone else has Tapatalk, but what the hell is the preview image for this thread?? Some kind of pitchfork disaster?

 

[Mickey Rae]

Bennell, Dick, JON, Bedford, etc.

I dunno, sometimes recycled players work but most of the guys we have done it with have been either ruined by injury or proven spuds that we somehow think we can transform.

The list was just to show that in any given week, the players contributing to their team's success are not just those who were lucky enough to be taken with super early picks.

JON is playing as well now as he ever has in his career.

 

[eagles rule]

No doubt.

Cripps has had on-going stress fractures for years, that and he's one dimensional, a very good one dimensional player that is but give it time, you'll see Acres reveal himself as having the highest ceiling.

Are you related to Acres in any way ?

 

[RookiePick]

Are you related to Acres in any way ?

Nah it must be young Griff showing his true allegiance

 

[mattyc75]

JON is playing as well now as he ever has in his career.

Still not that great tho is it? Solid wafl player only

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Just a thought;does anybody think the drug era has affected our recruiting? We used to pick talent,talent talent.Now the emphasis seems to be on good corporate citizens who happen to be reasonable footballers.The "super talented" often come with question marks over behaviour,attitude etc but looking at our recents they all seem "NICE" boys.

 

[BOND 007]

I personally think it is more of a development problem than a recruiting one, but it always irks me when people gloss-over things when making arguments like this.

Firstly, Neale hasn't just been "consistently good" - he was one of the best midfielders in the competition last year and unlucky not to be All Australian after being selected in the squad.

Furthermore, all four players taken after Newman played for their AFL clubs on the weekend, as did an additional 10 of the players taken after McInness. This is a hell of a lot better than one guy delisted and another floundering in the WAFL, even if not all of them are household names. So watering it down by saying "only Neale has been consistently good" doesn't really tell the full picture.


Just looking at the picks in between Karps and Barrass: Hewett, again not a household name, but since the start of 2016 he has played all but one game for Sydney, including kicking a goal in the GF. Cutler and Robertson both played AFL footy on the weekend, Nankervis is a lead ruckman and Kolodashnij is in Geelong's best 22 but has glandular. Pearce as you say is injured.

Again, it's easy to gloss over because none of them are superstars yet, but they're still contributing to their teams more than our guy is.

I also don't know if it's valid to say that the players who have played lots of games are in shit sides, because it's impossible to prove that they wouldn't have been getting games in good sides.

I'm not glossing over things - I was simply pointing out that I didn't believe the recruiting side is the issue.

Neale is a standout of that group but as you pointed out there are a number who are playing whereas WC drew blanks on that year. That happens - nothing can be done about it now we all move on. However I'm not sure Robertson nor Cutler would be lacing up in the 1sts for a top 6 team, Nankervis is having a breakout time but wasn't getting a game previously and I'm not sure Kolo is top 22 at Geelong however lets not argue semantics.

So this than creates an interesting proposition as to whether WC are developing the boys correctly or not to enable the natural progress to selection

If the answer is no - and there is some basis to back that up - then why not.
If the answer is yes - then questions need to be asked of the MC as to why they are not being selected.

To be fair WC have been in premiership mode the last 3 seasons and MC's normally head towards seasoned players in those years. One can argue Sydney haven't but really they have had some absolute star kids and others who have perhaps been given opportunities through injury.

 

[Moose1414]

Moose1414 would.

I sincerely hope with wasn't a knock on Sinclairs marking prowess?
Personally I think ruckman are overrated, most clubs get by fine without a half decent one and we're a shining example of the risk you expose yourself to if you build a midfield around ruck dominance, one injury away from a ruined season.

 

[The Dodger]

I believe drafting is a crap shoot. But although you are not guaranteed a star you are guaranteed a young footballer that you have a had a chance to interview and find out about him and his personality who is dedicated and has potential.

My problem for some time (back in the Swift / Stevens debate days) has been the development and retention of our players who have not come on. We misused the sub rule to only allow young players 1 quarter to get used to the tempo in a struggling side.
The only one who thrived was Gaff and that is probably because with the intensity of the first few quarters out of the way a guy that could run non stop and skirt the packs would be able to do something.

But more than that is the instruction to the players. Quite often when one of the more successful teams (Haw, Syd & Geel) of this era debut someone they look confident and seem to know where to run to get the footy and don't look like a deer in the headlights. Our guys...not so much. They look out of it and confused by the setup and where to go and funny enough that even when they do seem to show a little bit Karpany at the MCG last year they find themselves out of the team just as quickly as coming in. More evident is the fact that after that brief stint they don't seem to take confidence away from it and press on to gain further selection. They disappear into thin air never to be heard from again but retained on the list for another 3 years despite apparently not doing enough to be selected or given another try over that time.
I understand the "we are in premiership mode therefore play the oldest team possible" but thats a bit North Melbourne to me if it means close enough but not good enough. Like North Melbourne this group don't have it in them at the moment (Please be proved wrong please be proved wrong) and topping up with "big bodies" IMO is a sure fire way to still fall short of the mark and still mean you need a massive rebuild in future years due to the eggs in 1 basket mentality.

This leads to team selection which only enforces and further enhances the above issue. Mackenzie nor Redden should should have been in the team round 1 last year. I for one would love to see a web style defence again with Barrass and Gov down back. We have not given that a shot from what I can see and I think its sad we have just abandoned it after its success. In the above when young players get pushed to the side to allow an under performing senior "time to adjust" it must have an effect on them. You play favourites and then ones who aren't in don't like it and see the wall as too high to climb when senior guys can be spilling chest marks, missing easy targets being run around but still get a game over them.

Signs of mental weakness seem to go untreated. At the moment it is Duggan's shots for goal. He loses his shit runs in on bad angles gets too close to the mark while being a decent footballer that shouldn't be plagued by things like this after his 2nd or 3rd game. Cox waved his arms for frees, Mackenzie dropped his bundle with his kicking after costing us a game to Sydney in '09. Gaff has now spent the last 18 months trudging in the back ground asking for the ball on his right side despite not having a right side and asking for the ball in situations where he cant do anything with it (this was really evident again on Sat against Richmond).

Sorry for long post...TLDR Poor development and instruction of young players and team selection that enforces it is the issue I think that bothers us.

 

[Milenko]

I believe drafting is a crap shoot. But although you are not guaranteed a star you are guaranteed a young footballer that you have a had a chance to interview and find out about him and his personality who is dedicated and has potential.

My problem for some time (back in the Swift / Stevens debate days) has been the development and retention of our players who have not come on. We misused the sub rule to only allow young players 1 quarter to get used to the tempo in a struggling side.
The only one who thrived was Gaff and that is probably because with the intensity of the first few quarters out of the way a guy that could run non stop and skirt the packs would be able to do something.

But more than that is the instruction to the players. Quite often when one of the more successful teams (Haw, Syd & Geel) of this era debut someone they look confident and seem to know where to run to get the footy and don't look like a deer in the headlights. Our guys...not so much. They look out of it and confused by the setup and where to go and funny enough that even when they do seem to show a little bit Karpany at the MCG last year they find themselves out of the team just as quickly as coming in. More evident is the fact that after that brief stint they don't seem to take confidence away from it and press on to gain further selection. They disappear into thin air never to be heard from again but retained on the list for another 3 years despite apparently not doing enough to be selected or given another try over that time.
I understand the "we are in premiership mode therefore play the oldest team possible" but thats a bit North Melbourne to me if it means close enough but not good enough. Like North Melbourne this group don't have it in them at the moment (Please be proved wrong please be proved wrong) and topping up with "big bodies" IMO is a sure fire way to still fall short of the mark and still mean you need a massive rebuild in future years due to the eggs in 1 basket mentality.

This leads to team selection which only enforces and further enhances the above issue. Mackenzie nor Redden should should have been in the team round 1 last year. I for one would love to see a web style defence again with Barrass and Gov down back. We have not given that a shot from what I can see and I think its sad we have just abandoned it after its success. In the above when young players get pushed to the side to allow an under performing senior "time to adjust" it must have an effect on them. You play favourites and then ones who aren't in don't like it and see the wall as too high to climb when senior guys can be spilling chest marks, missing easy targets being run around but still get a game over them.

Signs of mental weakness seem to go untreated. At the moment it is Duggan's shots for goal. He loses his shit runs in on bad angles gets too close to the mark while being a decent footballer that shouldn't be plagued by things like this after his 2nd or 3rd game. Cox waved his arms for frees, Mackenzie dropped his bundle with his kicking after costing us a game to Sydney in '09. Gaff has now spent the last 18 months trudging in the back ground asking for the ball on his right side despite not having a right side and asking for the ball in situations where he cant do anything with it (this was really evident again on Sat against Richmond).

Sorry for long post...TLDR Poor development and instruction of young players and team selection that enforces it is the issue I think that bothers us.

This is an amazingly awesome post. KUDOS TO YOU SIR!

 

[Mickey Rae]

Still not that great tho is it? Solid wafl player only

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

No...... he's f****** terrible!!

 

[Agent93]

They look out of it and confused by the setup and where to go and funny enough that even when they do seem to show a little bit Karpany at the MCG last year they find themselves out of the team just as quickly as coming in.

I think this is the club's worst habit. Team selections seem to

a) reward lower performing players with repeated selection as opposed to giving young players a shot
b) not reward young players who play a decent game by allowing a second or third in succession (unless there is a long term injury they are 'filling in' for)
c) repeatedly cycle through the same fringe veterans

I was mystified last season when Karpany was dropped in favour of retaining Tunbridge.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

I believe drafting is a crap shoot. But although you are not guaranteed a star you are guaranteed a young footballer that you have a had a chance to interview and find out about him and his personality who is dedicated and has potential.

My problem for some time (back in the Swift / Stevens debate days) has been the development and retention of our players who have not come on. We misused the sub rule to only allow young players 1 quarter to get used to the tempo in a struggling side.
The only one who thrived was Gaff and that is probably because with the intensity of the first few quarters out of the way a guy that could run non stop and skirt the packs would be able to do something.

But more than that is the instruction to the players. Quite often when one of the more successful teams (Haw, Syd & Geel) of this era debut someone they look confident and seem to know where to run to get the footy and don't look like a deer in the headlights. Our guys...not so much. They look out of it and confused by the setup and where to go and funny enough that even when they do seem to show a little bit Karpany at the MCG last year they find themselves out of the team just as quickly as coming in. More evident is the fact that after that brief stint they don't seem to take confidence away from it and press on to gain further selection. They disappear into thin air never to be heard from again but retained on the list for another 3 years despite apparently not doing enough to be selected or given another try over that time.
I understand the "we are in premiership mode therefore play the oldest team possible" but thats a bit North Melbourne to me if it means close enough but not good enough. Like North Melbourne this group don't have it in them at the moment (Please be proved wrong please be proved wrong) and topping up with "big bodies" IMO is a sure fire way to still fall short of the mark and still mean you need a massive rebuild in future years due to the eggs in 1 basket mentality.

This leads to team selection which only enforces and further enhances the above issue. Mackenzie nor Redden should should have been in the team round 1 last year. I for one would love to see a web style defence again with Barrass and Gov down back. We have not given that a shot from what I can see and I think its sad we have just abandoned it after its success. In the above when young players get pushed to the side to allow an under performing senior "time to adjust" it must have an effect on them. You play favourites and then ones who aren't in don't like it and see the wall as too high to climb when senior guys can be spilling chest marks, missing easy targets being run around but still get a game over them.

Signs of mental weakness seem to go untreated. At the moment it is Duggan's shots for goal. He loses his shit runs in on bad angles gets too close to the mark while being a decent footballer that shouldn't be plagued by things like this after his 2nd or 3rd game. Cox waved his arms for frees, Mackenzie dropped his bundle with his kicking after costing us a game to Sydney in '09. Gaff has now spent the last 18 months trudging in the back ground asking for the ball on his right side despite not having a right side and asking for the ball in situations where he cant do anything with it (this was really evident again on Sat against Richmond).

Sorry for long post...TLDR Poor development and instruction of young players and team selection that enforces it is the issue I think that bothers us.

I just nod my head and say "yep "

 

[Logue]

Are you related to Acres in any way ?

Not from a bar of soap, a few years back I got a little coin to make calls on these kids. Acres, for mine, was the standout of the crop.

 

[eagles rule]

Not from a bar of soap, a few years back I got a little coin to make calls on these kids. Acres, for mine, was the standout of the crop.

Ok I get that you rate Acres but the rise of Cripps has been phenomenal at AFL level ,now I don't know if you know this but Cripps won Carltons 2015 B/F medal was the No1 clearance mid in the whole AFL competition in 2016 and also polled 18 Brownlow medal votes playing in one of the most highly competitive mid positions ..

I wouldn't know what Acres has been doing playing on a wing but still getting rated as the best is a big call by you..

 

[Logue]

Ok I get that you rate Acres but the rise of Cripps has been phenomenal at AFL level ,now I don't know if you know this but Cripps won Carltons 2015 B/F medal was the No1 clearance mid in the whole AFL competition in 2016 and also polled 18 Brownlow medal votes playing in one of the most highly competitive mid positions ..

I wouldn't know what Acres has been doing playing on a wing but still getting rated as the best is a big call by you..

And I'll stand by it, let's see where they are after 100 games each.

 

[porttoport]

Why didnt the recruiters draft Liam Ryan? Thats what i want to know.

Extremely low fitness which also goes to attitude hunger


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[dajesmac]

Logue is Pav.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

There are 4 parts to play in this space and we have not yet got our ducks in a line
List Manager - making sure we move on obvious non AFL standard players before they become list cloggers (Smith, McInnes, McGinnity, Karpany are examples that come to mind).
Recruiters - making sure we get the right talent through. Decisions can be impacted by go home (Wingard), U18 injury (Lever and Joel Selwood), good judgement and luck and working out what we trade for and what we give up. Looking back, both the Wellers and Redden deals feel like overs - they were not really 1st rounders.
Development Coaches - EP looks like a joke and we have gone backwards big time since the alignment
Match Committee - needing to take risks in selection and get a look see at senior level. The Best 22 is not the right answer every week. Are we going to play best 22 against Freo in 2 weeks? What about v Carlton? Not saying we stack it with kids but no kids also is crazy. I will watch with interest when Willie is available.

So while I think our recruiters have missed some tricks, I see more problems/poorer decisions in the other areas

I actual thought the MC had turned a corner when in 2015 they gave Nelson and then Duggan sustained runs at senior level. However in 2016, they reverted to the bad old days and I commented at the time that Nelson must feel like a spinster's vibrator - constantly in and out causing frustration and playing out of position. The MC failed to address inconsistency at the selection table with our older players. I believe there were high expectations with both Jetta and Redden and their lack of production caused blurred vision across an under-performing 2016 team. How long did it take eMac to be dropped and try Barrass? Why was Le Cras not give a stint at EP to deliver the goods each week yet we backed him in until the end of season? Masten had his issues as did a number of others. I did like Cole getting a run and thought he showed enough for optimism. Parto not worthy of a go against a piss poor st Kilda at Domain?

Sydney have played both Mills and Heany in more defined roles until they are ready to play midfield. Like many mentioned, we have drafted players who are have midfield capability but would benefit best by a simpler role. In 2016, the criticism on Nelson was him being up to midfield. Glad to see we have reverted him back to HBF. Likewise with Duggan, I believe he would be suited better for HFF or HBF role,

I actually liked what we did in the trade and draft time with the exception of Gorter. Not a need and not a talent. I would also have wanted to be stronger with Mackenzie and have got pick 21 or whatever it was. Likewise I would of looked to do a deal to give away our 2017 1st rounder for our 2016 (other clubs do it but we have been seemingly quiet). We had Darcy Cameron down to trial with us at the end of 2015 and could of rookied him in 2015 but chose to keep Colledge on the list! Just pay him out and say thanks, have a nice life. We could of done with Darcy on our list and the astute Sydney team cut our lunch.

So I would like to see Watson given really clear targets and then trial him before the end of June. Give at least 1 or Mortimer or Partington a game Freo. Find a reason to trial Venables before year end.

In reality, most of this sits under the control/influence of Vozzo! Is he the right man for the job? What can we expect from a GM of Football, ie what is his job? It may be that we are not exposed to his brilliance but there are issues that may need more than a lawyer can deliver to be the best club in the land. It wasn't as if he was such a great list manager that you would say "Keep at all costs".

 

[avishka5]

There are 4 parts to play in this space and we have not yet got our ducks in a line
List Manager - making sure we move on obvious non AFL standard players before they become list cloggers (Smith, McInnes, McGinnity, Karpany are examples that come to mind).
Recruiters - making sure we get the right talent through. Decisions can be impacted by go home (Wingard), U18 injury (Lever and Joel Selwood), good judgement and luck and working out what we trade for and what we give up. Looking back, both the Wellers and Redden deals feel like overs - they were not really 1st rounders.
Development Coaches - EP looks like a joke and we have gone backwards big time since the alignment
Match Committee - needing to take risks in selection and get a look see at senior level. The Best 22 is not the right answer every week. Are we going to play best 22 against Freo in 2 weeks? What about v Carlton? Not saying we stack it with kids but no kids also is crazy. I will watch with interest when Willie is available.

So while I think our recruiters have missed some tricks, I see more problems/poorer decisions in the other areas

I actual thought the MC had turned a corner when in 2015 they gave Nelson and then Duggan sustained runs at senior level. However in 2016, they reverted to the bad old days and I commented at the time that Nelson must feel like a spinster's vibrator - constantly in and out causing frustration and playing out of position. The MC failed to address inconsistency at the selection table with our older players. I believe there were high expectations with both Jetta and Redden and their lack of production caused blurred vision across an under-performing 2016 team. How long did it take eMac to be dropped and try Barrass? Why was Le Cras not give a stint at EP to deliver the goods each week yet we backed him in until the end of season? Masten had his issues as did a number of others. I did like Cole getting a run and thought he showed enough for optimism. Parto not worthy of a go against a piss poor st Kilda at Domain?

Sydney have played both Mills and Heany in more defined roles until they are ready to play midfield. Like many mentioned, we have drafted players who are have midfield capability but would benefit best by a simpler role. In 2016, the criticism on Nelson was him being up to midfield. Glad to see we have reverted him back to HBF. Likewise with Duggan, I believe he would be suited better for HFF or HBF role,

I actually liked what we did in the trade and draft time with the exception of Gorter. Not a need and not a talent. I would also have wanted to be stronger with Mackenzie and have got pick 21 or whatever it was. Likewise I would of looked to do a deal to give away our 2017 1st rounder for our 2016 (other clubs do it but we have been seemingly quiet). We had Darcy Cameron down to trial with us at the end of 2015 and could of rookied him in 2015 but chose to keep Colledge on the list! Just pay him out and say thanks, have a nice life. We could of done with Darcy on our list and the astute Sydney team cut our lunch.

So I would like to see Watson given really clear targets and then trial him before the end of June. Give at least 1 or Mortimer or Partington a game Freo. Find a reason to trial Venables before year end.

In reality, most of this sits under the control/influence of Vozzo! Is he the right man for the job? What can we expect from a GM of Football, ie what is his job? It may be that we are not exposed to his brilliance but there are issues that may need more than a lawyer can deliver to be the best club in the land. It wasn't as if he was such a great list manager that you would say "Keep at all costs".

I don't watch too much ep game (just the 2 on tv so far) but i feel that certain players are happy to get around 20 posessions but lack impact. The current game style they play mean that these kids get a lot of cheap possessions and its one reason why i guess ep are getting smashed. I would like to see some of these kids like Mutimer and Partington given the challenge to really impact the game by kicking goals and and applying ton of defensive pressure.

 

[mehow2g]

At times I feel like there is a snake in the recruiting team especially the last 10 years.

 

[frenchconnection]

A

There are 4 parts to play in this space and we have not yet got our ducks in a line
List Manager - making sure we move on obvious non AFL standard players before they become list cloggers (Smith, McInnes, McGinnity, Karpany are examples that come to mind).
Recruiters - making sure we get the right talent through. Decisions can be impacted by go home (Wingard), U18 injury (Lever and Joel Selwood), good judgement and luck and working out what we trade for and what we give up. Looking back, both the Wellers and Redden deals feel like overs - they were not really 1st rounders.
Development Coaches - EP looks like a joke and we have gone backwards big time since the alignment
Match Committee - needing to take risks in selection and get a look see at senior level. The Best 22 is not the right answer every week. Are we going to play best 22 against Freo in 2 weeks? What about v Carlton? Not saying we stack it with kids but no kids also is crazy. I will watch with interest when Willie is available.

So while I think our recruiters have missed some tricks, I see more problems/poorer decisions in the other areas

I actual thought the MC had turned a corner when in 2015 they gave Nelson and then Duggan sustained runs at senior level. However in 2016, they reverted to the bad old days and I commented at the time that Nelson must feel like a spinster's vibrator - constantly in and out causing frustration and playing out of position. The MC failed to address inconsistency at the selection table with our older players. I believe there were high expectations with both Jetta and Redden and their lack of production caused blurred vision across an under-performing 2016 team. How long did it take eMac to be dropped and try Barrass? Why was Le Cras not give a stint at EP to deliver the goods each week yet we backed him in until the end of season? Masten had his issues as did a number of others. I did like Cole getting a run and thought he showed enough for optimism. Parto not worthy of a go against a piss poor st Kilda at Domain?

Sydney have played both Mills and Heany in more defined roles until they are ready to play midfield. Like many mentioned, we have drafted players who are have midfield capability but would benefit best by a simpler role. In 2016, the criticism on Nelson was him being up to midfield. Glad to see we have reverted him back to HBF. Likewise with Duggan, I believe he would be suited better for HFF or HBF role,

I actually liked what we did in the trade and draft time with the exception of Gorter. Not a need and not a talent. I would also have wanted to be stronger with Mackenzie and have got pick 21 or whatever it was. Likewise I would of looked to do a deal to give away our 2017 1st rounder for our 2016 (other clubs do it but we have been seemingly quiet). We had Darcy Cameron down to trial with us at the end of 2015 and could of rookied him in 2015 but chose to keep Colledge on the list! Just pay him out and say thanks, have a nice life. We could of done with Darcy on our list and the astute Sydney team cut our lunch.

So I would like to see Watson given really clear targets and then trial him before the end of June. Give at least 1 or Mortimer or Partington a game Freo. Find a reason to trial Venables before year end.

In reality, most of this sits under the control/influence of Vozzo! Is he the right man for the job? What can we expect from a GM of Football, ie what is his job? It may be that we are not exposed to his brilliance but there are issues that may need more than a lawyer can deliver to be the best club in the land. It wasn't as if he was such a great list manager that you would say "Keep at all costs".

A lot of your comments are food for thought, however possibly not too many players at EP are in such good form that they are knocking down the door asking to be picked. You don't just play them at AFL for fun - they have to deserve their spot. Also it's all about winning matches - can't see the point in upgrading players if it means weakening the side. Sometimes it becomes a necessity due to injury, but generally speaking players have to earn their spot. That was also the problem last year. The players and the coaching staff at EP just need to lift, then possibly we may see some changes, but until that happens can't see too much happening!

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

A

A lot of your comments are food for thought, however possibly not too many players at EP are in such good form that they are knocking down the door asking to be picked. You don't just play them at AFL for fun - they have to deserve their spot. Also it's all about winning matches - can't see the point in upgrading players if it means weakening the side. Sometimes it becomes a necessity due to injury, but generally speaking players have to earn their spot. That was also the problem last year. The players and the coaching staff at EP just need to lift, then possibly we may see some changes, but until that happens can't see too much happening!

Are you related to Ross Lyon by chance?

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

If we wait until East Perth are winning before we say players have deserved it, we are going to be bitterly disappointed in 2017. Likewise if we wait until the team can play the structures properly, then we will also be disappointed.

Please do not think I am about just picking the kids. What I would like to see is a small risk taken with one player at a time. We are already taking risks whenever we pick Jetta as we are never sure what effort we get from him. Let's also look at horses for courses.

I compared Lachie Weller to Luke Partington - 1 year apart as their draft years are 1 year apart. Conveniently, up until today they had both played 20 WAFL matches and I admit up front that Freo were desperate but at round 3 it was pressure on not the basket case that 2016 ended up for them. Stats wise, Parto is ahead of Weller on a total of 20 WAFL games, his most recent 10 WAFL games and his most recent 5 WAFL games. He is a player that I would like to see at the next level. Note to self (Simmo) - roll the dice at the derby in 2 weeks and get a view of Parto and is he part of our future.