We Lack Mongrel

[The Dawes]

Reading PieLebo's thread on the 1990 team and it's 2009 counterpart has got me thinking.

If you look through the names of that 90 side, you see plenty of players with that intangible mongrel quality. By mongrel I don't just mean dirty pricks who run around whacking blokes, but players who have the ability to intimidate the opposition and make their teammates walk a bit taller.

Millane, Kelly, Monkhurst, and even Shaw and Kerrison all had this quality, although these last two were more the annoying, antagonistic types than physically intimdating.

All had the ability to intimidate the opposition and when you examine almost every premiership winning side you invariably find players of their ilk. Hawks of last year had Campbell Brown and Hodge, the Swans had Hall, Port; Josh Carr and Hardwick, Brisbane had the Scott brothers....

Question is, who do we have in 2009 who possesses these qualities?

Going through the list maybe Trav Cloke - when he tackles players and slams them into the turf it has some sort if intimidatory factor to it, but isn't really on a par with the likes of Millane and co.

Maxwell tries, but he is a pale imitation of these blokes too. Chris Bryan isn't good enough to hold down a regular spot in the 22.

I have read that the rookie-listed Tristan Francis is a tough nut, so there might be some hope there - otherwise I can't find anyone, therefore should this become a recruiting priority?

 

[DWil6]

Dennis Banks had mongrel, Doug Barwick was a unit...
Our 'twin towers' up forward in Barry Hall and Jono Brown add a degree of intimidation... oh wait...

 

[The Dawes]

Dennis Banks had mongrel, Doug Barwick was a unit...
Our 'twin towers' up forward in Barry Hall and Jono Brown add a degree of intimidation... oh wait...

Good point - forgot about Banksy.

 

[donnie5]

We sure do. We dont have any players who are imtimidating, not just physically but quality wise. We dont have the star power plus we cant physically imtimidate the opposition. This is why we need a few of our younger players to stand up in the next couple of years otherwise we are not going to win a premiership for good knows how long.

 

[Snag Breac]

You raise an interesting point, The Dawes. We need to enhance our warrior spirit without gratuitous thuggery. I think we have promise of future mongrel in Anthony, Shaw and Beams at least. I also think Medhurst has a touch of the canine about him.

 

[JOELY]

McCarthy is definitely a hard nut, but his size and overall playing style doesn't lend itself to dominating a match physically so much, but when he gets back to fitness, he'll help for sure. You're right on Francis, he's a good hard prospect, but a long way from afl. I think compared with 1990 there aren't as many footballers out there who are genuine mongrels, who also have the athleticism and running capacity to play at the highest level. Stanley is another one who can play a tough style, but again, isn't quite penciled in as an afl player just yet. Guys like Beams and Sidebottom coming through seem pretty willing but yeah, would love us to pick up a real bull at a gate type in the next draft

 

[shawthing09]

"Mongrel" is going out of the game in general. Now it is more a matter of players who will go for the ball kamikaze style and those who won't. We certainly need a few more of the wills.

 

[The Dawes]

"Mongrel" is going out of the game in general. Now it is more a matter of players who will go for the ball kamikaze style and those who won't. We certainly need a few more of the wills.

You're right of course - players with mongrel are fewer and further between, but as I said, virtually every premiership side has at least one player who fits the mould.

 

[Dogs_Playing_Poker]

Players I think will become those mongrel kind of players we are speaking of. Barham, Mcarthey, Anthony, Nat Brown, Beams, Danny Stanley.... Come to think of it most of our mongrel players are in the reserves... A team full of scotty Burns would be ideal!!!

 

[shawthing09]

You're right of course - players with mongrel are fewer and further between, but as I said, virtually every premiership side has at least one player who fits the mould.

When Maxwell is playing his game and not trying to be the mongrel player he is very good. His attack on the ball when he is just going the ball is as good as anyone's. Unfortunately at times he gets carried away with his wanna be tough guy act.

 

[jimmy35]

I think that's why we are persevering with Toovey .

 

[DWil6]

Beams is a bit 'kamikaze'. Just watch him dive at the ball head first in the other thread. Very impressive attack on the ball.

 

[Snag Breac]

McCarthy is definitely a hard nut, but his size and overall playing style doesn't lend itself to dominating a match physically so much, but when he gets back to fitness, he'll help for sure. You're right on Francis, he's a good hard prospect, but a long way from afl. I think compared with 1990 there aren't as many footballers out there who are genuine mongrels, who also have the athleticism and running capacity to play at the highest level. Stanley is another one who can play a tough style, but again, isn't quite penciled in as an afl player just yet. Guys like Beams and Sidebottom coming through seem pretty willing but yeah, would love us to pick up a real bull at a gate type in the next draft

Agree about Mc Carthy. But the last time I saw him, during that practice game against Scotch, he was wandering back to the Lexus Centre with a big hunk of ice on his shoulder.

But he may have played in the VFL since then; and if he did, was he hurt again? I seem to remember some such report.

 

[The Dawes]

I think that's why we are persevering with Toovey .

To paraphrase the quote from Harvey Keitel's character in Pulp Fiction:

"Just because you kick mongrels, doesn't mean you have mongrel."

 

[pendles]

For a long while we've really lacked what I like to call the grunt/(unt factor. Can't win a flag without it.

It'll come with time PROVIDED you have the skill to back it up and the disposition for a fight. Some of our guys have those qualities but nowhere near enough.

 

[FuManchu]

Scott Burns had plenty of it, but I wish he was 6 inches taller, it would have counted a lot more then.

before that Craig Kelly had mega amounts of it.

But we really do lack any and I dont know if its a deliberate ploy from MM to play sanitised football, or just a fact that the kids coming thru are playing football in a very public arena from an early age so know not to play dirty. But dirty football is a requirement for finals success ultimately

 

[Snag Breac]

But dirty football is a requirement for finals success ultimately

I know the Hawks are hard and dirty, but can you give me an example from the 2007 GF? Just interested.

 

[FuManchu]

I know the Hawks are hard and dirty, but can you give me an example from the 2007 GF? Just interested.

A pack of princesses could have turned up that day and won that game. That was not an example of finals football.

But you could say we were all dirty Port played that day, does that count?

 

[well left]

I know the Hawks are hard and dirty, but can you give me an example from the 2007 GF? Just interested.

Do you mean hard players from Geelong's premiership team or an example of it from the 2007 GF Snag?

Max Rooke is definitely a tough nut and Cam Mooney doesn't go too bad either. Chapman is hard at it.

If you are looking for examples from the GF specifically I can not assist. I struggle to remember things on GF Day for some reason.....

 

[Snag Breac]

A pack of princesses could have turned up that day and won that game. That was not an example of finals football.

But you could say we were all dirty Port played that day, does that count?

I think you're just too lazy to write one of your legendary 600-word articles today, Fu. But I bet you'd do it for The Phantom.

But assuming that Geelong didn't have to stretch themselves on that occasion, the question remains, do they have mongrel, and if so, wherein does it reside? Or, if they haven't, can they win another GF without it?

Can class - mongrel still = a premiership?

 

[FuManchu]

I think you're just too lazy to write one of your legendary 600-word articles today, Fu. But I bet you'd do it for The Phantom.

But assuming that Geelong didn't have to stretch themselves on that occasion, the question remains, do they have mongrel, and if so, wherein does it reside? Or, if they haven't, can they win another GF without it?

Can class - mongrel still = a premiership?

Geelong have it, last years GF, they just allowed hawthorn to push them out of the corridor. They still had 67 entries into their forward line, but not thru the corridor and therefore not as deep into their forward area.

It was a great gameplan by Hawthorn. But The Hawks do have it as well.

But if you doubt Geelong's mongrel, look at their attack on the contested ball. Big bodies not necessarily going the man, but solely concentrating on the ball. Its called controlled aggression and they have the size and the ability to carry it off.

 

[Snag Breac]

Do you mean hard players from Geelong's premiership team or an example of it from the 2007 GF Snag?

Max Rooke is definitely a tough nut and Cam Mooney doesn't go too bad either. Chapman is hard at it.

If you are looking for examples from the GF specifically I can not assist. I struggle to remember things on GF Day for some reason.....

Either Well Left. I can never remember what happens during a game.
Yes, I think Chapman looked tough and very resilient, and Rooke was annoying too. I was too taken with Mooney's hairband and his missed shots to notice him otherwise.

Is Ling a mongrel, or (God forgive me - he's some mother's son) just very ugly?

 

[Snag Breac]

But if you doubt Geelong's mongrel, look at their attack on the contested ball. Big bodies not necessarily going the man, but solely concentrating on the ball. Its called controlled aggression and they have the size and the ability to carry it off.

Do you believe this controlled aggression resides in the team, or on individuals? Because if it's a team thing, do we then have a chance of creating it ourselves?

 

[Chase the Ace]

A big mongrel gets me going

 

[DWil6]

Either Well Left. I can never remember what happens during a game.

Hasn't that hip flask rusted yet, Snag?