What happens to the State Leagues with the return of the Reserves?

[greatwhiteshark]

The AFL reserves will be a better standard as any potential mature age draftee will be far better off being a top up player in the reserves comp. The bulldogs vfl team as won two of the last four vfl premierships, the top up players have either been experienced players or promising potential draftees of which three have ended up on AFL lists in the past two years.


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95% of players 23 and above have missed their boat. Playing as a top up for an AFL reserves side would have very little appeal to them. I am happy to back Subiaco to beat any genuine AFL reserves side. That means no first 22 players. Peel have won the last two WAFL premierships because they played 6-8 of their best 22 players.
Most AFL reserves sides will be a colts team, no chance against seasoned men’s footballers.

 

[Walshawk]

The VFA will reform..

I'd like to see a 2 division league..

I imagine clubs like Balwyn, Noble Park, Deer Park etc will be invited into a reformed top suburban league.

I can't see them getting any VAFA clubs, but there would be some decent teams like Frankston YCW (To form a local derby with the dolphins), Aberfeldie, Vermont, Bundoora etc that may even form a second division of the VFA.

As you said, Box Hill, Preston and Springvale to all reincarnate.

None of the top suburban clubs want to play in the VFL. It is local rivalries that sustain suburban footy. The VFL would be a death sentence. There is no Box Hill or Springvale. Those clubs would fold immediately. You would get a six team VFL that’s would fold after the first season.

 

[fumbler]

So far if the Reserves comes back you would have.
NEAFL - dies
AFLC - Canberra (Eastlake). 1 from former NEAFL plus, Ainslie, Belconnen, Gungahlin, Queanbeyan, Tuggeranong. 5 = 6
AFLN - Sydney Uni. 1 former NEAFL plus Camden, EC Eagles, Manly, North Shore, Pennant Hills, St George, UNSW, UTS, Wests. 9 = 10
AFLQ - Aspley, Redland, Southport. 3 from former NEAFL plus Broadbeach, Labrador, Morningside, Mt Gravatt, PB Currumbin, Sandgate, Surfers Paradise, Wests, Wilston Grange. 9 = 12
SANFL - Centrals, Glenelg, North Ade, Norwood, South Ade, Sturt, West Ade, Woodville-West Torrens. 8 plus if Port want an SANFL presence 1, plus add NT Thunder from the former NEAFL 1 = possibly 10
VFL -

Frankston, Coburg, Port Melbourne, Werribee, Williamstown. 5 plus Box Hill, Casey, Sandringham. 3 = 8​

WAFL - Claremont, East Freo, Perth, South Freo, Subiaco, Swans, West Perth. 7 plus if Peel and East Perth can survive 2 = 9

While i'm at it fix the Tasmania League and do a total revamp.
0 points - players from the clubs juniors.
1 point - players from lower leagues or associations outside of 50 kilometres, or AFL listed player who was in the clubs juniors.
2 points- players from leagues out of state.
3 points - players signed from other state leagues.
4 points - On an AFL list 4 seasons or more, except if they were on the clubs junior list previously.
5 points - players who come from within 50 kilometres.
6 points - players signed from other clubs in the same league.
7 points - players signed who have been on an AFL list within 3 seasons, except if they were on the clubs junior list previously.

8 points - for players under 30 and played at more than 4 or more previous clubs.
9 points - for players on loan or are only flying in for a a maximum of 6 games.
10 points - for players under 25 who have played at 4 or more previous clubs​

One team clubs can only have 45 points or less.
Two team clubs can have 100 points or less.​

 

[damochandler]

So far if the Reserves comes back you would have.
NEAFL - dies
AFLC - Canberra (Eastlake). 1 from former NEAFL plus, Ainslie, Belconnen, Gungahlin, Queanbeyan, Tuggeranong. 5 = 6
AFLN - Sydney Uni. 1 former NEAFL plus Camden, EC Eagles, Manly, North Shore, Pennant Hills, St George, UNSW, UTS, Wests. 9 = 10
AFLQ - Aspley, Redland, Southport. 3 from former NEAFL plus Broadbeach, Labrador, Morningside, Mt Gravatt, PB Currumbin, Sandgate, Surfers Paradise, Wests, Wilston Grange. 9 = 12
SANFL - Centrals, Glenelg, North Ade, Norwood, South Ade, Sturt, West Ade, Woodville-West Torrens. 8 plus if Port want an SANFL presence 1, plus add NT Thunder from the former NEAFL 1 = possibly 10
VFL -

Frankston, Coburg, Werribee, Williamstown. 4 plus Box Hill, Casey, Preston, Sandringham. 4 = 8​

WAFL - Claremont, East Freo, Perth, South Freo, Subiaco, Swans, West Perth. 7 plus if Peel and East Perth can survive 2 = 9

While i'm at it fix the Tasmania League and do a total revamp.
0 points - players from the clubs juniors.
1 point - players from lower leagues or associations outside of 50 kilometres, or AFL listed player who was in the clubs juniors.
2 points- players from leagues out of state.
3 points - players signed from other state leagues.
4 points - On an AFL list 4 seasons or more, except if they were on the clubs junior list previously.
5 points - players who come from within 50 kilometres.
6 points - players signed from other clubs in the same league.
7 points - players signed who have been on an AFL list within 3 seasons, except if they were on the clubs junior list previously.

8 points - for players under 30 and played at more than 4 or more previous clubs.
9 points - for players on loan or are only flying in for a a maximum of 6 games.
10 points - for players under 25 who have played at 4 or more previous clubs​

One team clubs can only have 45 points or less.
Two team clubs can have 100 points or less.​

Neafl should’ve died in 2013. Qafl will be a 10 team comp

 

[fumbler]

Neafl should’ve died in 2013. Qafl will be a 10 team comp

10?
What are you doing with the three sides dropping back to the QAFL?

The NEAFL was buggered before it started, allow a NT side in but no Cairns side???

 

[damochandler]

10?
What are you doing with the three sides dropping back to the QAFL?

The NEAFL was buggered before it started, allow a NT side in but no Cairns side???

2 will drop out. Probably surfers and Sandgate. Thunder were already apart of the qafl. They wanted a North Queensland team ahead of a cairns team. Thunder will most likely go to sanfl

 

[The_Wookie]

2 will drop out. Probably surfers and Sandgate. Thunder were already apart of the qafl. They wanted a North Queensland team ahead of a cairns team. Thunder will most likely go to sanfl

disagree, I think thunder will go to the VFL...their womens team will be playing in the VFLW this year

 

[damochandler]

disagree, I think thunder will go to the VFL...their womens team will be playing in the VFLW this year

Thunder were originally going to go to the sanfl. That’s why I think that’s where first port of call will be

 

[Bunk Moreland]

None of the top suburban clubs want to play in the VFL. It is local rivalries that sustain suburban footy. The VFL would be a death sentence. There is no Box Hill or Springvale. Those clubs would fold immediately. You would get a six team VFL that’s would fold after the first season.

It can work fine as long as (a) it’s Melbourne based and doesn’t have regional clubs (b) it’s genuine top level local footy that the ex VFL clubs are happy to embrace - including promotion and relegation.

It works very well in the VAFA, it’s just a semi-pro version of that.

 

[coniglio_number1]

State leagues will survive I’m sure. WAFL and SANFL will run as they have for decades.

In terms of list size the reserves can be filled by academy players such as next gen/indigenous and international scholarship players. Not to mention coaches eg sam Reid played for us whilst he was a developmental coach

 

[footyfan1978]

In terms of list size the reserves can be filled by academy players such as next gen/indigenous and international scholarship players. Not to mention coaches eg sam Reid played for us whilst he was a developmental coach

List sizes right now are not big enough to have a functioning reserves comp.
We've seen this year the rookie list rules been relaxed that category A rookie list players are all able to play seniors with no restriction. So in essence the AFL have moved the main list to a size of 44. A club has 10 players unavailable one week due to injuries and suspension and they down to 34 players to field two teams. That means they need 10 top up players. At present there is no way the average club is close to 10 players each to play at drop of a hat in reserves grade that maybe over other side of country from their international scholarship type players that category B rookie list players. Most clubs maybe have one or two of them at most. That still leaves a good 8 needed from next generation academies. I think right now clubs would be lucky to have more than 2 ready to be playing reserves across the nation from week to week.

So it is clear if this is on the agenda then the working parties on bringing back reserves are communicating with list management working parties to find a way to deal with this. Given they are in process of removing rookie list as it has been for recent decades they must be replacing it with some other form of list that is both for top up players for reserves and academy style kids that can be brought in to experience 3 or 4 games in season at reserve grade level. I think that means all 18 clubs are going to need to have access to around 54 players each to get the job close to done.

So whatever list it is called these players will be seen as top up players or the old supplementary list that still existed in 1990's when a young guy like Stephen Milne was a supplementary list player for Essendon so he played for Essendon reserves but was not part of Essendon's AFL list. The rookie list players were locked to that club for other clubs not able to draft but supplementary list players, were, in essence just top up players for your reserve side and any club could draft them. You had no rights to them. Hence we see Stephen Milne drafted by St.Kilda back then.

I think that is where we are heading. AFL clubs will get a top up list of around another 8 players that not part of your AFL fabric but are week to week able to play with your reserves side and when you got no injuries some of them have a suburban club they can play for on a loan type situation.
So you will have your primary list of probably 44 players next year. Then your international rookie/academy list of about 4 players each and then another 8 for supplementary list to play as top ups in reserves which would bring the grand total to 56 players minimum each to field 2 teams each week. When you got a healthy AFL list with few injuries and reserves filled out with mostly primary list and international rookies players most of your supplementary list players will head back and play with a suburban club that weekend. But their main priority for the year is to have themselves ready to be playing in the AFL reserves and hoping to put themselves in a position to be drafted at the end of the season or even mid-season draft.
Just like a Stephen Milne did.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

They may let them draw on TAC players. But your right it going to be a slippery slope trying to make two teams out of 44 players each week.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

It’s no different to now. Most of the Melbourne clubs have their own reserves and they just have a “VFL squad”. It’d be the same setup, no matter what it’s called.

 

[chazwazza]

It’s always funny to hear Port supporters hating on the SANFL, blaming them for everything despite them being bailed out to the tune of $15m.
The SANFL passed their One Club proposal in 2010 to bring The Magpies Back into the fold only for the PAF. to go back on their promise to the members that they wouldn’t become an AFL Reserves team......4 years later guess what happened.
Then when they do they bitch and moan about losing their zones and junior teams even though it’s an AFL directive. But hey SANFL Wah Wah Wah.
They complain and cry SANFL conspiracy when they lose last years GF by 1 point to Sturt.

I felt sorry for the traditional Port Magpie supporters who didn’t jump onto the Power bandwagon when their team was turned into a Reserves side, I’d feel sorry for them if they have no stand alone SANFL team again but the truth is that it creates more trouble for the SANFL and the PAFC, so it’s better that they leave it altogether. I’ll enjoy not having to hear their paranoid conspiracies and bleating.

Hopefully the State Leagues can find their place in the Australian Football market and hopefully the AFL respects that place and supports it.
I’d like there to be a bit more interaction between State Leagues and possibly some clubs to create stronger ties with sister clubs in other comps. If all State Leagues can consolidate and work towards a united goal and hopefully a Champions of Australia tournament between all Grand Finalists.

There’s a place for suburban football of a high standard, not everyone wants to be bombarded by fireworks, incessant booming advertising over the PA selling McDonalds or fried chicken or some other bull$hit at AFL games.
Sometimes people just want to stand around, watch a game of footy, talk to their mates and have a few beers and have a bit of room for their kids to enjoy themselves also.

 

[SCRAY72]

Hopefully a state league consisting of
Port
Williamstown
Coburg
Sandringham
Frankston
Werribee
Box Hill
Fitzroy

 

[Rickee]

With the rumoured return of the AFL Reserves I think it's a great idea and never fully understood why it was halted in the first place.
The unevenness of the current setup for the AFL non Victorian sides was huge and was unfair for them to be playing in State competitions with sides that were in place only to help themselves and not their AFL counterparts.
I also on the other hand feel for clubs that may fall by the wayside without the backing of their AFL suitors and we could see some of the State Leagues collapse if the AFL and their clubs pull out of the State Leagues altogether.
My main concerns are WAFL and Peel, NEAFL losing four sides from eleven and the VFL. How can the VFA (VFL) survive if the only clubs left are Williamstown, Werribee, Coburg, Frankston, Zebras and maybe the Mustangs, Bullants and Scorpians return to their true selves.
Do they start with an eight team comp or do the AFL Victoria look at promoting some of the suburban clubs to a newly formed VFL?


Please do not call the AFL Reserves, AFL Development League.

You forgot a very important VFL team, there. Only the reigning premiers.

 

[footyfan1978]

It’s no different to now. Most of the Melbourne clubs have their own reserves and they just have a “VFL squad”. It’d be the same setup, no matter what it’s called.

Completely wrong. Currently an AFL club does not have their players not in senior side all playing in a reserve side on same day as seniors. Sometimes there are byes for those players, sometimes they play on a different day and the 6 day break causes massive problems if their seniors are playing the next Friday and their other players in reserves that on fringes of playing seniors have a VFL game listed for the Sunday prior to Friday.
You clearly not put much thought into this to have a throw away line "it would be same setup"

Furthermore if your playing interstate and reserves interstate that is very different to now.
However they get top up players, those top up players have to avail themselves of travelling interstate to play for a reserves side. That is another very different factor to present setups.

Present setups are a dogs breakfast and this will make things so much cleaner to have all players for an AFL club playing on same day of week whether in seniors or reserves.

 

[fumbler]

Hopefully a state league consisting of
Port
Williamstown
Coburg
Sandringham
Frankston
Werribee
Box Hill
Fitzroy

Would love to have Fitzroy in the VFL, would add that old flavour and a city side would be good.

You forgot a very important VFL team, there. Only the reigning premiers.

Yeah I did.
I thought I put them in but it was Preston.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Completely wrong. Currently an AFL club does not have their players not in senior side all playing in a reserve side on same day as seniors. Sometimes there are byes for those players, sometimes they play on a different day and the 6 day break causes massive problems if their seniors are playing the next Friday and their other players in reserves that on fringes of playing seniors have a VFL game listed for the Sunday prior to Friday.
You clearly not put much thought into this to have a throw away line "it would be same setup"

Furthermore if your playing interstate and reserves interstate that is very different to now.
However they get top up players, those top up players have to avail themselves of travelling interstate to play for a reserves side. That is another very different factor to present setups.

Present setups are a dogs breakfast and this will make things so much cleaner to have all players for an AFL club playing on same day of week whether in seniors or reserves.

I was referring to the posts above mine about squad sizes, which players they’ll draw on etc, will they need extra players...

That will be the same as now - the clubs with reserves have a VFL squad. Whether that’s called a “supplementary list” or whatever, it’ll be the same as now.

 

[master bate]

Completely wrong. Currently an AFL club does not have their players not in senior side all playing in a reserve side on same day as seniors. Sometimes there are byes for those players, sometimes they play on a different day and the 6 day break causes massive problems if their seniors are playing the next Friday and their other players in reserves that on fringes of playing seniors have a VFL game listed for the Sunday prior to Friday.
You clearly not put much thought into this to have a throw away line "it would be same setup"

Furthermore if your playing interstate and reserves interstate that is very different to now.
However they get top up players, those top up players have to avail themselves of travelling interstate to play for a reserves side. That is another very different factor to present setups.

Present setups are a dogs breakfast and this will make things so much cleaner to have all players for an AFL club playing on same day of week whether in seniors or reserves.

Explain how it's going to be different for the majority of the teams particularly for the standalone clubs that have the majority of their VFL squad as young developing players with the occasional former AFL player for a bit of leadership.

I'm thinking Richmond, the Bulldogs, Collingwood, Geel, Essendon etc. Now without the Development league other teams who formerly had reserves will structure their VFL squads in similar ways.

There's not massive problems caused by Friday/Sunday games for the AFL players. They sit a few out or reduce the minutes for others, it's hardly a huge drama.

The interstate travel will dissuade a few but I look at some of the best VFL sides lately like the Dogs 2015/2016 and the Tigers 2018 and they have a couple of former AFL guys who often have the captaincy or work as development coaches or some such link and then have a lot of young guys who are uni students or starting out trades and can most likely work around some travel.

 

[footyfan1978]

I was referring to the posts above mine about squad sizes, which players they’ll draw on etc, will they need extra players...

That will be the same as now - the clubs with reserves have a VFL squad. Whether that’s called a “supplementary list” or whatever, it’ll be the same as now.

ok, fair enough you clarifying the context.
Still a supplementary list player required to be available to play a reserves game in Perth for Carlton is very different to a VFL squad guy knowing he is basically playing locally each weekend rather than travelling interstate 4 to 6 times a year. Not all present VFL squad type players would be able to do that.

 

[footyfan1978]

There's not massive problems caused by Friday/Sunday games for the AFL players. They sit a few out or reduce the minutes for others, it's hardly a huge drama.

Sitting out is a massive issue if your VFL team had a bye the week before. If you are an AFL player wanting to get back in senior team and your VFL team is due to play Sunday and AFL team plays Friday night, there is the AFL ruling of certain breaks between games means if you play VFL on Sunday you cannot play in the AFL team the following Friday night. So if the AFL club know they want to consider that player for following Friday night they are forced to keep that player out of VFL game on the Sunday.
It is a dogs breakfast. Hence having proper reserves grade AFL with exactly same fixture as seniors removes the problem straight away. You know it makes sense.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

ok, fair enough you clarifying the context.
Still a supplementary list player required to be available to play a reserves game in Perth for Carlton is very different to a VFL squad guy knowing he is basically playing locally each weekend rather than travelling interstate 4 to 6 times a year. Not all present VFL squad type players would be able to do that.

As I’ve already said in his thread, I can’t see any of the Vic clubs wanting a national reserves comp. A 10 club Vic comp is a superior setup for them.

 

[footyfan1978]

As I’ve already said in his thread, I can’t see any of the Vic clubs wanting a national reserves comp. A 10 club Vic comp is a superior setup for them.

We are on different wavelengths then. All good.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

We are on different wavelengths then. All good.

If the only issue you can identify is a few problems with five day breaks, then I think the huge expense of setting up a national reserves comp is cracking the nut with a sledgehammer.