What was Adelaide's Best Draft?

[Vader]

Just before the draft Katrina Gill wrote a series of articles on Adelaide's drafting over the years. I thought it would be a good idea to have a look at our drafting to see which was Adelaide's best draft - and our best year of drafting.

Note: this doesn't include players on our inaugural list or players received as a result of trades, hence the absence of Roo, Hart & Macca.

PSD = Pre-Season Draft
MSD = Mid-Season Draft (now defunct)
ND = National Draft
RD = Rookie Draft

Games played are listed in brackets. Where players also played for other clubs (or were drafted multiple times by the AFC), career totals are listed after a slash. An asterisk (*) indicates a current player.

1992
MSD: Jim West (0), Andrew Geddes (0) & Alan Schwartz (0).
ND: Marty McKinnon (21/86), Brooke Fogden (0), Matthew Powell (16), Sam Smart (0), Michael Godden (0).
Indicative of our woeful early drafting, McKinnon was the only player to make a meaningful contribution - and most of his best work was done for Geelong.

1993
PSD: Darryl Wakelin (0/261), Josh Mail (4), Nick Pesch (31), Simon Pedler (0).
MSD: Tim Perkins (0)
ND: Eugene Warrior (0)
Wakelin had a pretty good career, just not with us. The 93 ND was our shortest ever, with just one selection.

1994
PSD: Shane Tongerie (4), Matthew Kluzek (24)
ND: Toby Kennett (0), Allen Nash (0), Matthew Collins (14), Brett Higgins (0)
Marginally more productive than 1992, but still one of our worst ever draft years.

1995
PSD: Peter Vardy (96/137), Tyson Edwards (289*)
ND: Brent Williams (7), Kane Johnson (104/220*), Scott Hodges (2/38), Adam Ugrinic (0), Ashley Fernee (2)

The 95 PSD is an early favourite for best draft, with both players having 100+ game careers and participating in our flag winning sides.

The ND wasn't so great, with Johnson's 104 games the best (plus another 116 for Richmond). Spotty Dodges played just 2 games from this drafting, having previously been on our inaugural list. Williams is best remembered for being part of the Bassett trade.

1996
PSD: Shane Ellen (54/65), Simon Goodwin (238*), Brendon Logan (0)
ND: Tom Gilligan (3), Andrew Eccles (41/54), Chad Rintoul (23/76), Greg Dempsey (0), Ben Parker (0)

Another good PSD, with Ellen & Goodwin both good value. Ellen playing 54 starred in the '97 GF. Goodwin's legend continues to grow, with 238 games and counting.

Eccles was eventually traded to Carlton (for Massie), while Rintoul went on to play for West Coast and Collingwood. Overall though, the ND was disappointing.

1997
ND: Lance Picioane (4/77), James Theissen (44), Ian Perrie (116), Linden Stevens (2)
RD: Ben Marsh (48/55), Steven Coghill (0)

The Sarge is easily the pick of this lot, having soldiered on until 2007 for a total of 116 games. Picioane had a decent career, albeit mostly with Hawthorn. Stevens managed just 2 games, but it was enough to ensure that this ND was our first in which all players made their debut.

Marsh wasn't entirely awful for a rookie draftee - and hey, Richmond were stupid enough to pick him up once we'd realised how bad he was.

1998
ND: Brett Burton (164*), Tyson Stenglein (106/197*), David Gallagher (26/33), Bryan Beinke (38), Lucas Herbert ()14, Clint Kirey (0), Ken McGregor (152), Brodie Atkinson (5/7)
RD: Stuart Bown (4), Dean Howard (0), Matthew Golding (7), Jarrod Twit (0), Linden Stevens (0/2), Scott Mathews (0)

With 8 draftees, the 1998 ND was our biggest ever draft haul. Three standouts on that list - The Birdman (164 games and counting), McGregor (152 games) and Stenglein (106 for AFC, 91* for West Coast). With three centurions it has to be a strong contender for best draft. Of the rest, only Kirey failed to score.

1999
PSD: Darryl Wintle (3)
ND: Rhett Biglands (134), Ricky O'Loughlin (9), Justin Cicolella (5), Robert Shirley (23/140*), Balraj Singh (0), Matthew Shir (11)
RD: Michael Doughty (142*), Josh Coulter (0), Chris Robertson (0), Jon Yerbury (0)

With two centurions (Biglands & Shirley) it wasn't all bad. We got the untalented O'Loughlin brother into the bargain. The Young One was a pretty handy pick-up in the rookie draft as well.

2000
PSD: James Byrne (24), Andrew Crowell (44)
ND: Laurence Angwin (0), Michael Handby (0), Matthew Smith (0), Hayden Skipworth (5/44(*?)), Graham Johncock (147*)
RD: Kane McLean (0), Justin Cicolella (0/5), Matthew Golding (7), James Gallagher (38)

Angwin was our highest ever draft pick and a total headcase, thank-you Adolf Ayres. The draft would have been a complete disaster were it not for Johncock, taken with our last selection.

2001
PSD: Chris Ladhams (54), Adam Richardson (2)
ND: Brent Reilly (93*), Ben Finnin (0), Jacob Schuback (7)
RD: Paul Thomas (0/8), Nathan Bock (86*), Ben Rutten (102*), Martin Mattner (98/122*)

The first of the renowned "superdrafts" was almost a complete washout. Reilly has been good, but not as great as many players drafted after him. The others were eminently forgettable.

Thank God for the rookie draft. Bock, Rutten & Mattner have all had excellent careers with the first two winning AA honours. Mattner's career continues at Sydney where we all wish him well. Along with the 1998 ND and 1995 PSD this is one of only three obvious candidates for best draft by the club.

2002
PSD: Trent Hentschel (61*)
ND: Luke Jericho (33), Robert Shirley (96/119), James Begley (25/61)
RD: Hayden Skipworth (44/44(?*)), Jason Porplyzia (0/44*), Aidan Parker (0), Michael Bratton (0)

Jericho might have been useless, but he did play 33 games. Shirley finally got his list position stabilised and has become a consistent member of the team. Begley had a reasonable career, mostly with St Kilda. Hentschel would be up around the 100 game mark by now, were it not for injury. Overall, this was one of our better years, with all 4 players drafted having moderately successful careers.

2003
ND: Fergus Watts (5/6), Joshua Krueger (0), Ben Hudson (55/78*)
RD: Tim Hazell (0), Rowan Andrews (0), Brad Dabrowski (0), Matthew Smith (0)

No doubt who the star of this draft was. However, with none of these players still on our list you'd have to describe it as a washout.

2004
ND: John Meesen (2/2*), Nathan van Berlo (76*), Chad Gibson (0), Ivan Maric (30*), Chris Knights (50*)
RD: Ryan Nye (0), Jonathon Griffin (28*), John Hinge (1)

Yet another first round failure, but with three regulars selected with our 2nd, 4th & 5th picks - including the club's next Captain - you'd have to say this one was a good result. One of our few decent drafts.

2005
ND: Richard Douglas (38*), Darren Pfeiffer (0/7(?*)), Bernie Vince (31*), Alan Obst (0/3)
RD: Brad Sugars (0), Tom Redden (0), Adrian Bonaddio (0), Sam Elliott (0)

The jury is still out on Douglas but Vince looks the goods. It was a notoriously poor draft, so I'm prepared to forgive the recruitment team for this one. To their credit, they didn't do too badly identifying the talent - all four players eventually made their debut, though 2 of them were with other clubs.

2006
PSD: Jason Porplyzia (44*)
ND: James Sellar (1*), Kurt Tippett (19*), David Mackay (19*), Nick Gill (16*), Bryce Campbell (8)
RD: Andrew McIntyre (0), James Turner (0), Rhys Archard (0), Greg Gallman (0*)

I'm not sure the Crows did the best they could out of the superdraft. Tippett & Mackay look very good, Gill is a temporary solution, Campbell is gone and Sellar's future does not look bright.

2007
ND: Patrick Dangerfield (2*), Andy Otten (2*), Jarrhan Jacky (3*), Myke Cook (0*), Tony Armstrong (0*), Aaron Kite (0*), Taylor Walker (0*)
RD: James Moss (0*), Jared Petrenko (0*), Edward Curnow (0), Brodie Martin (0*)

Far too early to tell, but the early signs look good with 6 out of 7 players having shown something at SANFL level and 3 having made their debut.

2008
ND: Phil Davis (0*), Shaun McKernan (0*), Rory Sloane (0*), Tom Lee (0*), Will Young (0*)

Far too early to tell.

Looking at that list, there are only three real candidates for the title of "Adelaide's Best Ever Draft" - the 1995 PSD, the 1998 ND and the 2001 RD. In future years we may well look back on 2007 & 2008 with wonder, but for now the jury hasn't even left the courtroom far less settled on a verdict.

Put bluntly, our drafting has been woeful for years. Looking at the lists above I can't believe that James Fantasia held onto his job for as long as he did. Part of Fantasia's problems were obviously Ayres related, as his drafting improved significantly once Craig took over. Even so, he still has some serious explaining to do.

It's only early, but the signs look good that Rendell is literally a 300% improvement on Fantasia. Here's hoping he can build our next premiership side.

 

[KUNG FU]

Nice work Vader. You always do the hard yards and its appreciated.

2004 by a country mile, I think obviously. Rendell, fool or genius? Too early to tell, but I like his style. I am excited about last year's pool. On the law of averages, surely we'll get what we've missed for a long time, a key forward, and that alone makes it a success. I'll promise not to get too excited though, because I remember thinking Marsh could revolutionise the game pinch hitting in the forward lines in one of his early games - gimme a break I would have been like 13.

 

[WALL-e]

2004

We swung and missed with our first with Meesen and missed as well with Gibson but more than made up for it with Future Capitano VB, ball magnet Knighta and our 2 first choice rucks, Ivan the impailor and Griff the stick Ivan uses to impail people with.

Still a while for that draft to reach fruition but it's coming along nicely

On a speculitive note i'll say 2007 will be our best to date with 08 and 04 close behind.

 

[Vader]

Interesting that you've both chosen the 2004 ND, which I didn't even have in my top 3 - though in retrospect maybe I should have.

I'm interested to know why you chose it over the 2001 RD, which gave us Mattner, Rutten and Bock? That draft gave us 2 centurions (albeit with Mattner completing his century at Sydney). Bock appears almost certain to make it 3 centurions. To top it off, both Bock & Rutten have won All Australian honours.

Maric, Knights and VB are all very good players and will (hopefully) be with us for the next decade, but none of them have looked like winning AA honours or ever look like winning them in the future.

 

[WALL-e]

Interesting that you've both chosen the 2004 ND, which I didn't even have in my top 3 - though in retrospect maybe I should have.

I'm interested to know why you chose it over the 2001 RD, which gave us Mattner, Rutten and Bock? That draft gave us 2 centurions (albeit with Mattner completing his century at Sydney). Bock appears almost certain to make it 3 centurions. To top it off, both Bock & Rutten have won All Australian honours.

Maric, Knights and VB are all very good players and will (hopefully) be with us for the next decade, but none of them have looked like winning AA honours or ever look like winning them in the future.

I guess it was the non-event of our National Draft that threw me off that one.

We've always nabbed rookies, so it took away the surprise of that, though it shouldn't dimminish the picks from that year.

 

[Vader]

I guess it was the non-event of our National Draft that threw me off that one.

We've always nabbed rookies, so it took away the surprise of that, though it shouldn't dimminish the picks from that year.

We haven't always done well with our rookies either, if you look at the stats. 2001 was an amazing outcome. Other than that, we've only had a handful of success stories - Marsh, Doughty, Porplyzia, Griffin and arguably Skipworth. That's not a lot of return for 10 rookie drafts (excluding 2001).

 

[James23]

Bock, Rutten, Reilly, Mattner vs van Berlo, Maric, Knights, Griffin

It's tough but i'll go with the 2001 draft - make-up of our defensive spine for the next decade. Bock and Rutten probably would have been delisted if Ayres had gotten a contract extension!

Damn Fantasia stinks. Totally uninspiring selections, if it wasnt for our inaugral list and trades we'd have a history to rival Fremantles.

 

[vlbl]

Great thread Vader.

It's too hard to split 2001 and 2004 drafts, but without them we would be in a bigger mess then Freo and Melbourne. To get 2 AA from the rookie draft of the same year is quite unbelievable and with the 2004 draf ti won't be surprised if we end up getting the same number of AA's out of that as well in VB and Knights.

What those drafts show is that we have been good at finding the diamonds out of the rough and have mostly found the rough out of the diamonds (if that makes any sense). I know it's early but with Rendell i think we may have just learned to master the draft, the first round selections he has got with Danger and Davis although it is too early to call, look very promising. And as good as the 2007 draft looks i'm going to say that the 2008 will be the most defining draft of this club's history to date, because we might have just found black gold after years of digging, in Davis and Mckernan and that doesn't even take into account the other 3 who look pretty good on their own accord.

 

[Vader]

Bock, Rutten, Reilly, Mattner vs van Berlo, Maric, Knights, Griffin

It's tough but i'll go with the 2001 draft - make-up of our defensive spine for the next decade. Bock and Rutten probably would have been delisted if Ayres had gotten a contract extension!

Damn Fantasia stinks. Totally uninspiring selections, if it wasnt for our inaugral list and trades we'd have a history to rival Fremantles.

Funny you should bag Fantasia in that post - you do realise that he was still in charge for both the 2001 & 2004 drafts?

Not disagreeing with you, but it is somewhat ironic.

Looking back at our drafting in the 90s, our teams were heavily stacked with players received as a result of trades. Under Neil Craig the reverse is rapidly becoming true.

 

[James23]

Funny you should bag Fantasia in that post - you do realise that he was still in charge for both the 2001 & 2004 drafts?

Not disagreeing with you, but it is somewhat ironic.

Looking back at our drafting in the 90s, our teams were heavily stacked with players received as a result of trades. Under Neil Craig the reverse is rapidly becoming true.

Yeh i do realise he was in charge, and he has alot more often than not messed up our early draft picks - maybe Ayres is to blame for that as well. Was Fantasia in charge of our drafting from day 1?

I feel that Rendells 2007/2008 drafts will rival any of Fantasia's drafts, but at the moment it would be silly to say Dangerfield, Petrenko, Otten, Walker, etc will be better than Bock, Rutten, Reilly, Mattner as it is far far too early. But we can thank Fantasia for Walker, although i believe we can thank Walker for choosing Adelaide, as there were several teams keen if i remember correctly.

 

[WALL-e]

But we can thank Fantasia for Walker, although i believe we can thank Walker for choosing Adelaide, as there were several teams keen if i remember correctly.

Lets thank Jesus, Alah AND Buddah for that (should cover all bases as he deserves multi-praise)

 

[Vader]

For the record, here is our trading record (incoming players only):

1992: Matthew Robran (130/137), Stuart Wigney (10/72)
1993: Brett Chalmers (50/75), Tony Hall (17/114)
1994: Andrew McLeod (304*), Jason McCartney (37/182), Matthew Connell (96/99)
1995: Darren Jarman (121/230), Kym Koster (95/133), Troy Bond (58/94), Peter Caven (82/139)
1996: Brett James (76/118), Trent Ormond-Allen (42/50), Clay Sampson (24/64), Tim Cook (8/8), Aaron Keating (6/6), Nick Laidlaw (0), Barry Standfield (13/111)
1997: Nathan Bassett (210), Mark Stevens (101/122), Ian Downsborough (12/39)
1998: Nil
1999: Matthew Clarke (118/256), Scott Welsh (129/189*)
2000: Matthew Bode (79/108), Evan Hewitt (15/48)
2001: Ryan Fitzgerald (8/18), Kris Massie (88/131), Ben Nelson (12/52), Daniel Schell (11/27)
2002: Ronnie Burns (20/154), Wayne Carey (28/272), Jason Torney (77/195)
2003: Scott Stevens (77*/102)
2004: Scott Thompson (93*/132)
2005: Nil
2006: Nil
2007: Brad Moran (7*/10), Brad Symes (16*/36)
2008: Nil

Two things to note:
Our trading has suffered a dramatic downturn since 2002.
Our trading has been infinitely more successful than our drafting, in terms of games played per player taken.

 

[WALL-e]

For the record, here is our trading record (incoming players only):

1992: Matthew Robran (130/137), Stuart Wigney (10/72)
1993: Brett Chalmers (50/75), Tony Hall (17/114)
1994: Andrew McLeod (304*), Jason McCartney (37/182), Matthew Connell (96/99)
1995: Darren Jarman (121/230), Kym Koster (95/133), Troy Bond (58/94), Peter Caven (82/139)
1996: Brett James (76/118), Trent Ormond-Allen (42/50), Clay Sampson (24/64), Tim Cook (8/8), Aaron Keating (6/6), Nick Laidlaw (0), Barry Standfield (13/111)
1997: Nathan Bassett (210), Mark Stevens (101/122), Ian Downsborough (12/39)
1998: Nil
1999: Matthew Clarke (118/256), Scott Welsh (129/189*)
2000: Matthew Bode (79/108), Evan Hewitt (15/48)
2001: Ryan Fitzgerald (8/18), Kris Massie (88/131), Ben Nelson (12/52), Daniel Schell (11/27)
2002: Ronnie Burns (20/154), Wayne Carey (28/272), Jason Torney (77/195)
2003: Scott Stevens (77*/102)
2004: Scott Thompson (93*/132)
2005: Nil
2006: Nil
2007: Brad Moran (7*/10), Brad Symes (16*/36)
2008: Nil

Two things to note:
Our trading has suffered a dramatic downturn since 2002.
Our trading has been infinitely more successful than our drafting, in terms of games played per player taken.

Thank god for that trade period

 

[Southerntakeover]

Maric, Knights and VB are all very good players and will (hopefully) be with us for the next decade, but none of them have looked like winning AA honours or ever look like winning them in the future.

I disagree with that statement completely.

 

[Vader]

I disagree with that statement completely.

Fair enough. I consider them to be very good midfielders, but I don't consider them to be elite. That's my opinion. Only time will tell. Maric may make it to elite status, but I certainly can't see VB or Knights getting there.

 

[KUNG FU]

Two things to note:
Our trading has suffered a dramatic downturn since 2002.
Our trading has been infinitely more successful than our drafting, in terms of games played per player taken.

Downturn: One reason, starts with "C" ends with "arey". First name rhymes with "Wayne"

Trading is always more successful, because its less speculative. Its also a reason why all AFL clubs have been trading less, because AFL fans perhaps more than anyone else in the world can't deal with former players being successful elsewhere - AFC fans especially when they talk about Kane Johnson or Steinglein.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Interesting thread Vader. No matter how some of the blind optimists on this board try and spill it, our use of draft picks, especially 1st rounders, has been very ordinary. Most other aspects of the AFC are better than average - player development, culture etc. However it has been our below average use of 1st round draft picks that has prevented us from winning that elusive 3rd premiership. You can't blow 8 1st round draft picks since 2000 and not expect it to have a negative impact.

Our best draft since 2000 would have to be the 2001 draft where we stole 2 AA in Bock and Rutten with rookie picks. Our second best would be 2004 when we drafted Knights/Griff/VB and Maric. I think in time that will be our best draft but at this stage only VB can say he has the runs on at the board, while the 3 look like being very good players.

Our worst draft since 2000 would have to be the 2000 draft. Angwin at pick 7 and trading pick 12 for Matt Bode, the worst trade in our history. Bizarre trade in fact.

 

[Hondo]

I think the drop off in the trading would match the overall trend across all clubs.

If you slot the everything into a bucket called "recruiting" it's hard to go past that 1995-1996 period when key players in our premiership sides arrived.

It's a very interesting study Vader. We seem to be picking out either the RD or the ND in given years as no year seems a real stand out to me in totality. I do like the look of the 2007 draft but it's too early to tell.

My final comment would be that our recruting stats can look bad taking our club in isolation without any benchmarking against other clubs. Having said that I am sure that we would come up worse than Port Adelaide in the period 1999-2002ish. They really stole a march on us. But I suspect most clubs would have a similar record in the RD, for example.

 

[Vader]

Trading is always more successful, because its less speculative. Its also a reason why all AFL clubs have been trading less, because AFL fans perhaps more than anyone else in the world can't deal with former players being successful elsewhere - AFC fans especially when they talk about Kane Johnson or Steinglein.

Fair enough, but the discrepancy between our drafting and our trading in the 1990s was ridiculous. It goes well beyond anything which could be adequately covered by "less speculative".

Drafting
We drafted a total of 77 players from 1992-2000 (inclusive). Of these, just 13 (17%) played 100 games in their entire career. In addition to the 13, another 6 (8%) had 50 game careers. That's 20 players in total, or 26% who played a minimum of 50 games after being drafted by the Crows. 30 (39%) failed to play a single game in their entire career.

Trading
During the same period we received 25 players as a result of trading. Of these, 7 (28%) played 100 games for the Crows and another 7 (28%) played at least 50. Only 1 (4%) failed to play a game for the AFC.

Note that I've tried to bias the figures as far as possible in favour of drafting. In order to have succeeded as a draftee, a player's entire career was considered. I've even counted players like Wakelin who didn't play a single game for the Crows, yet had a 261 game AFL career. In order to have succeeded as a tradee, only games for the AFC were considered.

There's no two ways about it. Our drafting during the 1990s was diabolical. It was only our canny trading ability which prevented us from winning 5 or 6 wooden spoons. Whoever was in charge of our talent identification back then should have been hung, shot and bodily dismembered.

 

[hendo8888]

2001 for mine
Reilly is a very good player
Finnin got us Ronnie Burns
Hentschel in the PSD
Bock, Mattner, Rutten in the Rookie Draft

 

[Crow-mo]

and you want to know why I think we should trade more of our picks.

ps. the 1st true acclaimed superdrafts were 1994 & 1997, not 2001

 

[Macca19]

From an outsiders view, id say theres no real obvious standout, but 98 and 04 look the best of the lot.

 

[Hondo]

and you want to know why I think we should trade more of our picks.

Ah this old debate again!

It was a different era back then Crow-mo. If you look at the players we got it was mostly "come home" cases. And we arguably gave up a fair bit for them because getting them was a focus (eg, D Jarman cost us Wellman, and more).

In that period 94-97 when we got so many players in; we also moved players like Bone, Wellman, Groom, Turner, Sanderson, Rouvray, McKinnon, Ingerson, J Ross, Hodges, Brown, Pesch, Chalmers, Collins, Williams, McCartney to other clubs. Some of those players, in hindsight, you simply wouldn't be able to off-load today. Others went on to become very valuable players that would have been just as valuable for us.

So we'll never know what young talent we may have got into the club if we'd focussed more on the draft, or what we would have done if we'd kept the above group of players.

But the bottom line is that trading players was given more priority by all clubs back then, and the come home factor was more important for our ex-patriates.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

and you want to know why I think we should trade more of our picks.

ps. the 1st true acclaimed superdrafts were 1994 & 1997, not 2001

Its a good point. Even for the clubs that don't blow their 1st rounders the success rate is something like 40-50% at best. Makes trading your 1st rounder for an estabilished star ( ie Didak ) even more attractive - provided the player in question is younger than 24/25 and not 32.

 

[twentydollarnote]

yeah but clubs dont give up established stars for just a first round pick springy, best you can hope for is a thompson style pickup where we got him just before he really peaked. Didak would cost a fortune to get here.

If you look at the drafts sure Jimmy blew the first rounders but often we had such low picks it didnt really matter, for instance in 04 we got meesen but theres hardly another decent player in the first round. Where we failed and have always failed was trading. If you look at the actually picks we had we couldnt do a lot better. The overall strategy of the club was what we needed to improve.