What's going on with Carlton's list

[jonoman89]

This makes no sense.

Seriously some of the excuses coming out of Carlton are just absurd

It's pretty simple. All gun players were first of an unknown quality, then had a break out year to become the players they are now.

We have about 5 KP forwards capable of having a break out year this year. I'm confident one will be able to kick 30 goals next year provided they are uninjured.

I can't think of one Carlton player over 190cm who played more than 10 fully fit games last year.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

No, still doesn't make sense. Carlton's depth was tested in 2012 and they failed to make the eight. Coll and WC also had their depth tested and finished fourth and fifth respectively. Your side remains the same as there have been no trades during the off season. Hence, your depth remains the same.

 

[forwardflanker]

It's pretty simple. All gun players were first of an unknown quality, then had a break out year to become the players they are now.

We have about 5 KP forwards capable of having a break out year this year. I'm confident one will be able to kick 30 goals next year provided they are uninjured.

I can't think of one Carlton player over 190cm who played more than 10 fully fit games last year.

lol ok, so using your logic, all clubs with a full list to choose from have great depth . 10k posts and you don't understand what depth is

 

[laminex]

Take off the navy blue glasses mate. We had an massive list of injuries you flog.

Yeah sure you did, right up there with the teams that had stuff all.

Flog lol nice one kid.

 

[laminex]

This makes no sense.

Seriously some of the excuses coming out of Carlton are just absurd

you do know that supporters talking on big footy are not things coming out of Carlton right??

or are you so stupid you think thats sticks and it was a press release??

Dead set really have some face and learn to troll.

 

[biggiemediums]

Yeah sure you did, right up there with the teams that had stuff all.

Flog lol nice one kid.

Yeah 28 years old, must be kid. Mate funny how everyone but Carlton supporters acknowledge that the pies had a pretty bad injury run the first 15 rounds. Funny that.

 

[slashin_velvet]

cbf reading thread. Age of list isnt a massive concern. Ill leave this here:

 

[laminex]

Yeah 28 years old, must be kid. Mate funny how everyone but Carlton supporters acknowledge that the pies had a pretty bad injury run the first 15 rounds. Funny that.

Sorry you just act like a kid, so anyway kiddo i'm not saying you had a great run with injury's i'm saying if you compare it to the amount we had you had **** all.

 

[biggiemediums]

Sorry you just act like a kid, so anyway kiddo i'm not saying you had a great run with injury's i'm saying if you compare it to the amount we had you had **** all.

Look granted you had a worse run. Forget Collingwood then. West Coast had a fairly close injury run to you guys and still did well. All I'm saying is Carlton's problem is depth, not best 22 list.

 

[Sector 7G]

They haven't proven themselves against Top 4 sides even with a full list. Also, performances against Port Adelaide and StKilda when they still had a good side just showed up their inconsistency. This is why they never won 5 in a row under Ratten.

That must have been a big relief to you when the Swans who were unproven against top 4 sides last year, cleaned Hawthorn up in the last Saturday in September this year. Teams can improve. Also Carlton beat Collingwood a top 4 side twice during the year.

 

[Monkey King]

They haven't proven themselves against Top 4 sides even with a full list. Also, performances against Port Adelaide and StKilda when they still had a good side just showed up their inconsistency. This is why they never won 5 in a row under Ratten.

Podge, you're as boring as ever. Whooped Collingwood twice this year. And the season before last had wins against top 4 sides. You're just pumping out tired trolls from last year, but even then, we'd run Geelong to the wire and lose only with a missed shot on goal from a concussed Warnock from 7m out. Took WCE to 3pts at Subi in a real finals pressure game without Gibbs who'd been on fire in the 7 games previous. It really is a tired line with little insight.

One thing you're right with though is the consistency under Ratten and winning a block of games would be a real goal for this team under Malthouse. The great thing is, no one would have picked Sydney to win this year, or the Crows to basically beat the Hawks in the PF only to be punched down by crappy umpiring. This just shows what can happen in footy when things start to go right for a team. The list itself at the Blues shows this kind of promise. The issue is only whether they can deliver on it.

 

[Monkey King]

Collingwood 2012. Crapload of injuries. Show some heart, finish top 4, decent finals campaign.

WCE 2012. Crapload of injuries. Show some heart, finish 5th, decent finals campaign.

Carlton 2012. Crapload of injuries. Show no heart, finish out of top 8, no finals.

That's the difference. Carlton supporters arguing this point are showing their ignorance.

I'm not saying the list is bad. It's not. It's the heart of the depth that's poor.

If you lost Cloke, Dawes, Reid, Brown and pretty much every back-up KPP on your list to the point you upgrade a rookie two games back from a knee injury you might have a point. But you didn't and you don't. Funny thing is, that when the Pies were most hit by injury they looked very average, but as the injury list improved, you moved up the ladder. Carlton went the other way, up the ladder at the start of the season, and then slid as they went further down the road than any other club injury wise, ending up with something like 41 players used by years end.

 

[Monkey King]

That must have been a big relief to you when the Swans who were unproven against top 4 sides last year, cleaned Hawthorn up in the last Saturday in September this year. Teams can improve. Also Carlton beat Collingwood a top 4 side twice during the year.

One thing of note here is that the Swans had the best run of injuries of any team, with something like 18 players playing all but 3 games together. Continuity of this level shouldn't be underrated. It's not just this player or that player being injured, but a bulk of the team having continuous play together throughout a season, or even in just a significant cluster of games. It's a massive plus for premiership contention.

 

[forwardflanker]

One thing of note here is that the Swans had the best run of injuries of any team, with something like 18 players playing all but 3 games together. Continuity of this level shouldn't be underrated. It's not just this player or that player being injured, but a bulk of the team having continuous play together throughout a season, or even in just a significant cluster of games. It's a massive plus for premiership contention.

So we've gone from Carlton supporters blaming injuries on their loss to the GC and Port. To Carlton supporters blaming injuries for not making the 8. Now we have Carlton supporter blaming injuries for not winning the 2012 premiership . When will the excuses stop

 

[Monkey King]

So we've gone from Carlton supporters blaming injuries on their loss to the GC and Port. To Carlton supporters blaming injuries for not making the 8. Now we have Carlton supporter blaming injuries for not winning the 2012 premiership . When will the excuses stop

Blah blah blah. We're here looking for solutions buddy; if you don't like it, go back to your own board

 

[sherb]

So we've gone from Carlton supporters blaming injuries on their loss to the GC and Port. To Carlton supporters blaming injuries for not making the 8. Now we have Carlton supporter blaming injuries for not winning the 2012 premiership . When will the excuses stop

We've still got some Collingwood supporters blaming a Grand Final loss over 30 years ago on "the ball being out". Now that's serious and quality longevity in the excuses stakes.

 

[brett15]

I don't think the list is as bad as the OP makes out.

The two most important players in that top 7 IMO are Murphy and Carazzo, and as long as they stay on long enough for Gibbs, Robinson, Yarran, Kreuzer, Lucas and Watson to come on, they will have replacements for Scotland, Judd, Simpson, Waite and have enough time to draft and recruit needs based players. Betts, Garlett and McLean should still be regulars by this stage also.

 

[TheBeardGuru]

Results from Carlton's b&f:

1. Heath Scotland - 32
2. Eddie Betts - 25
3. Chris Judd -29
4. Brock Maclean - 26
5. Marc Murphy 25
6. Andrew Carazzo - 28
7. Kade Simpson - 28

The fact that there is not one player under the age of 25 in the top 7 of their b&f count has to be a huge concern. This is a club who in recent years has spent more time on the bottom of the ladder and had greater access to high draft picks than any other. Where are they? Why haven't any of them developed into the players that many thought they would come. Whose fault is it? The recruiters? The development staff? We should be seeing a side ready to peak and have a genuine tilt at the flag, yet instead all that exists is a veteran list on the cusp of collapse. Is this failure to develop youth now a crisis, and if so, how can Carlton go about changing what seems to be an entrenched culture of mediocrity?

Discuss.

The Simple answer is injuries to those players and the previous people in charge didn't play the young Kids. This will all change now as you will see the Likes of Watson, Lucas and others get a full season no more drafting just to draft someone who isn't a star just to play 7-10 games. Those games will go to developing the kids recruited. The new Carlton will play like a well drilled machine at war defending it parameter. I believe most will hold up, the weak will be found out very quickly in the next few months.

 

[drummoyne]

Keefe is so hard at it he can't play in the ruck despite being taller than about 90% of all ruckman in the league. What a warrior. Can't compete with anyone his own size. Will be exposed for lack of agility playing as a key defender on smaller opponents especially with dodgy knees.

You have no idea.

 

[dickballsack]

i'm new to this thread so apologies if its been said but carltons problem isnt the talent of the list (i know people will say they need a couple of KPF/B but all teams have deficiencies - swans had plenty this year). the problem is the character of some of the players. malthouse will fix that. (maybe not next year but certainly the year after)

 

[TheBeardGuru]

i'm new to this thread so apologies if its been said but carltons problem isnt the talent of the list (i know people will say they need a couple of KPF/B but all teams have deficiencies - swans had plenty this year). the problem is the character of some of the players. malthouse will fix that. (maybe not next year but certainly the year after)

Mick will surely do that.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

i'm new to this thread so apologies if its been said but carltons problem isnt the talent of the list (i know people will say they need a couple of KPF/B but all teams have deficiencies - swans had plenty this year). the problem is the character of some of the players. malthouse will fix that. (maybe not next year but certainly the year after)

Not so much character in terms of being of poor character, but in terms of attitude and work ethic.

 

[dickballsack]

Not so much character in terms of being of poor character, but in terms of attitude and work ethic.

yep, character was probably the wrong word. but i mean't they need guys that want it and will sacrifice for it. i ended it by saying it might not be this year as being a pies supporter i know some will take the challenge and others will not buy into it. they won't be there the year after, so realistically (could) take 2 years. (i dont know the players so they all could buy in).

 

[laminex]

Look granted you had a worse run. Forget Collingwood then. West Coast had a fairly close injury run to you guys and still did well. All I'm saying is Carlton's problem is depth, not best 22 list.

What made it really bad for us was that we lost every single tall player on out list, even the rookie listed players went down and all long term. Our back up backups got injured, one even got cancer. I'm not saying we played with heart or what ever but Rats really got ****ed over this year.

 

[jonoman89]

No, still doesn't make sense. Carlton's depth was tested in 2012 and they failed to make the eight. Coll and WC also had their depth tested and finished fourth and fifth respectively. Your side remains the same as there have been no trades during the off season. Hence, your depth remains the same.

That ascribes to the theory that only new players can make our list better and bat deeper. Which simply isn't true, for any list.

The depth on show this year was average because the majority of them were playing their first few couple of games. Bell, Casboult, Mitchell, McCarthy, Bootsma, McInnes and Dale all played their first games this season.

How many debutants did Collingwood and WCE have?

Not to mention we have a pretty handy coach on board who knows a thing or two. But don't worry, Carlton is obviously incapable of improving because we didn't trade for the sake of it...

lol ok, so using your logic, all clubs with a full list to choose from have great depth . 10k posts and you don't understand what depth is

Fail to see where I suggested any such thing, but If you want to roll with it be my guest.
I was merely suggesting our number one weakness, KP forward depth, is looking OK at the moment due to having about 5-6 options capable of contributing at senior level. Waite, Casboult, Mitchell, Rowe, Hampson and even Henderson are all or have already been at development stages where they are capable of delivering on potential.
That can obviously change if injury hits, something which seems near inevitable considering the pervasiveness of the Carlton flu (AKA anyone over 190cm being ****ed for half a season or more).