When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[PP34]

I didn't say you guys thought you were flying after that. Pretty sure by that point you all knew it wasn't all rosy at Carlton.

But Carlton fans have been telling us all off season how good they are and how bad we are. Funny seeing us above you on the ladder after 9 rounds.
Still haven't proven themselves as top 8 contenders.

It’s round 8. One team has played four of the top five teams. One hasn’t.

Considering a number of different factors I’m not one bit surprised about where Carlton is at the moment. Every club obviously views things at the start of the season in a fairly positive light.

Was it really deluded for Carlton fans to think that Cripps would play more like his 2019 self? Were we expected to go weeks with McKay as the only reliable forward option for example?

Carlton fans do love throwing up the injuries a bit too much at time but I’d argue right now if we had Cripps at his best and a reliable target next to McKay instead of a 50% Casboult we’d be in better shape.

Unfortunately this club right now doesn’t have the stucture or depth to deal with any form issues, injuries etc and this is why they are where they are right now.

I don’t know what to think of Carlton and their quest to get up the ladder long term. But I would like to just see the team run out there with Curnow, Fisher, McGovern etc instead of some of the plodders who keep getting games.

 

[Yoda_]

Who’s getting ahead of themselves? We smacked you in 2nd gear with 8 out, which means stuff all in the grand scheme as you are pox. Nothing to write home about, but beating the bombers is always a great day nonetheless. Lol *

“Yay, we beat a team some tipped to be bottom 2”

Newsflash, the ladder says you guys are struggling and we are still above you on the ladder right now.

If you rejoice one match a year than I genuinely feel sorry for you.


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[Yoda_]

View attachment 1129540

Have a lot of winnable games in back half of the season, but it’s too late...

Will end up winning 9-10 games which is simply not good enough.

Another disappointing season for the Blues.

Could genuinely finish bottom 4. If McKay is out for a sustained period of time, they’re stuffed


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[PP34]

“Yay, we beat a team some tipped to be bottom 2”

Newsflash, the ladder says you guys are struggling and we are still above you on the ladder right now.

If you rejoice one match a year than I genuinely feel sorry for you.


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We won. You lost. It’s pretty simple champ. Nothing more or less than that.

A concept you clearly can’t get.

Go back to crying about how poor Essendon get picked on and how Joe Daniher is the GOAT.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

“Yay, we beat a team some tipped to be bottom 2”

Newsflash, the ladder says you guys are struggling and we are still above you on the ladder right now.

If you rejoice one match a year than I genuinely feel sorry for you.


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I’ll rejoice alright. Always good smacking Essendon. Even better doing it with 8 out.

 

[citizen-erased]

Game is won and lost with midfields. Carlton do not have one.
Solid backline.
McKay is a gun.
Walsh and a hampered cripps is not enough.
Credit to the endeavour they've shown against some decent sides.

 

[JayJ20]

It’s round 8. One team has played four of the top five teams. One hasn’t.

Considering a number of different factors I’m not one bit surprised about where Carlton is at the moment. Every club obviously views things at the start of the season in a fairly positive light.

Was it really deluded for Carlton fans to think that Cripps would play more like his 2019 self? Were we expected to go weeks with McKay as the only reliable forward option for example?

Carlton fans do love throwing up the injuries a bit too much at time but I’d argue right now if we had Cripps at his best and a reliable target next to McKay instead of a 50% Casboult we’d be in better shape.

Unfortunately this club right now doesn’t have the stucture or depth to deal with any form issues, injuries etc and this is why they are where they are right now.

I don’t know what to think of Carlton and their quest to get up the ladder long term. But I would like to just see the team run out there with Curnow, Fisher, McGovern etc instead of some of the plodders who keep getting games.

It's round 9. The counter to that though is that Carlton have only travelled once this year. Essendon have already travelled 4 times. Also played Brisbane, Port, GWS and Sydney away. All difficult games.

FWIW, I think Carlton have the talent to at least contend for a spot in the 8, but I don't think they have the mental resilience to make it.
Sides that want to make finals have to win some games against the top 5-6. Carlton don't look anywhere near it.

There's no reason for Sydney to be better than Carlton based on last year. Yet they've already beaten Richmond away, Brisbane away and Geelong. Carlton only have wins against a depleted Fremantle, a depleted Essendon and Gold Coast to show for it. Nothing inspiring. That's the difference between a finals side and a bottom 8 side.

The loss to Bulldogs was particularly bad because it highlighted everything that's wrong with Carlton.

 

[Ambrosia]

I really think the Williams signing is copping way too much criticism. There’s always a premium on free agents, they reportedly still have plenty of cap space and if not Williams then how else should they have spent that money?

Giving up a top 10 pick for a 26 year old Saad was the iffy decision. Should probably wait until you’ve played finals before you trade out of the pointy end of the draft.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Did you actually watch the game or just jump on to troll? Saad and Williams were both ok. Betts and Murphy were meh.

If you go on rankings points, Saad and Williams were 7th and 10th best for Carlton. Murphy was 9th and Betts 14th.

That's very generous on the latter two; Murphy kicked a late goal in junk time which gives an obvious boost, Betts got a bit of the ball early but was unsighted after half time and finished with 36% disposal efficiency. The AFL website listed both Saad and Williams in Carlton's best (along with Cripps, Docherty, and Walsh).

It's obviously hard given that Carlton have been bad for a long time, but today against an undefeated Melbourne team, we:
- dominated the clearances
- led inside 50s
- held them to less than 100 points

We played with injuries to arguably 9 players who would have played in our forward line if fit - we simply didn't have the firepower to kick a winning score against arguably the best team in the comp. You can criticise a lot of things about CArlton but at least pay some respect to what actually took place.

If anyone actaully expected Carlton to arrive today, with that team on the park, against Melbourne? Probably not. Lets face it - it isn't happening this year. There's a transition in place within the team as the last of the old guard step out, and others step in around them. If we get some playesr back on the park late this year then maybe we'll see some of what it'll look like, but until we can get something on the park that at least looks like it is meant to, its hard to make any real judgment (and yes, every team has injuries... but ours are horribly weighted to the foward line, which is a recipe for a lot of frustration all round).

The injuries don’t really matter and neither does the fact they’re forwards.

Individuals have never meant less at AFL level. You need a team defence, 18 committed players on the park implementing it at any one time.

Carlton could bring in Carey, Plugger and Lethal in the forward line next week. It wouldn’t make much difference. They’re bottom 4 for points conceded this season and until that changes, they won’t improve.

And I’d be staggered if that happens under Teague.

 

[Soapy V]

As I heard Jimmy Bartel today crucified our structures, decision making and ball use all game. He’s exactly right.

Week in week out it’s the same thing. For the first time in decades I question our coaching and game style. It is just amateur and makes no sense at all. We bomb away blindly and don’t defend.

Until this is fixed it’s hard to judge our players. What I do believe is that any list with a core of Cripps Walsh McKay Weitering Jones Saad Williams should be better than it’s currently producing

 

[citizen-erased]

I really think the Williams signing is copping way too much criticism. There’s always a premium on free agents, they reportedly still have plenty of cap space and if not Williams then how else should they have spent that money?

Giving up a top 10 pick for a 26 year old Saad was the iffy decision. Should probably wait until you’ve played finals before you trade out of the pointy end of the draft.

Powell would be a good addition to the middle.
I do wonder if they thought they'd end up having to part with a top 10 pick for an out of contract non-AA HBF.
As good as Saad is, I would have kept the pick

 

[Pistol Night]

The injuries don’t really matter and neither does the fact they’re forwards.

Individuals have never meant less at AFL level. You need a team defence, 18 committed players on the park implementing it at any one time.

Carlton could bring in Carey, Plugger and Lethal in the forward line next week. It wouldn’t make much difference. They’re bottom 4 for points conceded this season and until that changes, they won’t improve.

And I’d be staggered if that happens under Teague.

Of course, all those campaigners are retired and old

 

[DapperDon]

Carlton fans gloating about beating Essendon is like gloating you banged an escort.

 

[Gavin Excell]

As I heard Jimmy Bartel today crucified our structures, decision making and ball use all game. He’s exactly right.

Week in week out it’s the same thing. For the first time in decades I question our coaching and game style. It is just amateur and makes no sense at all. We bomb away blindly and don’t defend.

Until this is fixed it’s hard to judge our players. What I do believe is that any list with a core of Cripps Walsh McKay Weitering Jones Saad Williams should be better than it’s currently producing

Guess that's the question
Does Carlton have a list that is top 8 material.
I'd suggest they do

 

[btdg]

The injuries don’t really matter and neither does the fact they’re forwards.

Individuals have never meant less at AFL level. You need a team defence, 18 committed players on the park implementing it at any one time.

Carlton could bring in Carey, Plugger and Lethal in the forward line next week. It wouldn’t make much difference. They’re bottom 4 for points conceded this season and until that changes, they won’t improve.

And I’d be staggered if that happens under Teague.

Everyone gets injuries, but they do impact when they stack across one line of the field. You just end up playing guys who can't cover the team defence that is so important, either because they are out of position (and don't know where to go) or because they aren't up to it - too young, too old, whatever.

In Carlton's case, there's a clear game-plan in place to move the ball quickly, using our half-backs pushing forward, to marking targets, then lock the ball in with forward pressure. We play defensive wingers (Cottrell, Newnes, Docherty today) who prevent the ball coming out easily, etc.

But if the forwards can't compete... or the ground pressure isn't there... we are really vulnerable on the counterattack. IF the half-backs have pushed up, we're slow at the back. This is compounded by Jones' appalling tendency to run past the ball - if someone gets in behind, they tend to kick easy goals (see: two of Tom McDonald's goal and Pickett's goal in the last quarter, all of which fit this bill - lack of tall contest, HB pushed forward, Jones ran under ball, very easy goal at the back). So a lot depends on getting a good contest up the ground...

Today our bigs were Casboult (carrying an injury) and McKay (carrying an injury). The other options are Curnow (injured), De Koning (injured), McDonald (injured). Our mobile marking targets who take pressure off by leading are Martin (injured), Silvagni (injured), McGovern (injured).

As I said, we matched Melbourne in most stats and beat them at clearances and for inside 50s. And never even looked like winning.

I disagree on Carey, Plugger and Lethal. Put Carey out there and suddenly Lever is chasing him and he's providing a strong target up the ground, and McKay is one-out deep with May. Maybe the long bomb forward 50s still happen, but a healthy McKay gets to the contest, which brings the smaller guys into it, etc.

that said, you might be right about Teague and that gameplan. It runs counter to what has been successful for 3 years (forward pressure generating turnovers), and I think it is aiming to take advantage of the AFL clearly indicating they want more of that style - rule changes came in this year for that reason, and I don't think they'll be reversed. The point is we can't really tell right now - it's a gameplan based on the premise that there will be SOMEONE to kick the ball to. Having 8 guys who fit that bill and ALL of them injured at once is unusual.

There's heaps more of course. We've certainly had more success in 'team defence' with guys like Cottrell, Owies, even Newnes, than we have with top 10 draft picks in the midfield. That's a definitely question worth asking

 

[Ambrosia]

As I heard Jimmy Bartel today crucified our structures, decision making and ball use all game. He’s exactly right.

It’s hard as a supporter because from the outside it’s impossible to tell if the problem is the game plan or the players ability to implement the game plan and like all tough questions it’s probably a little of column a and little of column b.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Wasnt today

I don’t know they arrived for a few minutes in the first quarter

 

[Ambrosia]

Guess that's the question
Does Carlton have a list that is top 8 material.
I'd suggest they do

Being capable of making the 8 in an 18 team comp isn’t particularly difficult though. Heck Essendon, who aren’t any good, could easily have 6 wins.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It’s hard as a supporter because from the outside it’s impossible to tell if the problem is the game plan or the players ability to implement the game plan and like all tough questions it’s probably a little of column a and little of column b.

Bartel though didnt hold back.
Fair criticism?

 

[Ambrosia]

Bartel though didnt hold back.
Fair criticism?

Yeah I’m saying I agree with Bartel but my point is were his observations true because Teague’s game plan is bad or because he can’t get the players to implement his desired game plan?

 

[WWSD]

Clarko measuring up the office now surely???

Why would he go to Carlton? Fremantle are closer to a Premiership.

 

[Soapy V]

Yeah I’m saying I agree with Bartel but my point is were his observations true because Teague’s game plan is bad or because he can’t get the players to implement his desired game plan?

Until we sort out our game plan we can’t tell on the players. I do believe we should be much better than we are showing

Melbourne were damn impressive today and toyed with us.

 

[banzai]

I think it will click for Carlton eventually but it will happen over an off season. Richmond were average and turned it around from round 1 2017. Likewise Melbourne from round 1 this season, Brisbane round 1 2019, Collingwood and West Coast 2018. I don't think much can change during the course of a season. They will beat quite a few teams when their draw gets easier, but obviously this season is done.

 

[Yoda_]

We won. You lost. It’s pretty simple champ. Nothing more or less than that.

A concept you clearly can’t get.

Go back to crying about how poor Essendon get picked on and how Joe Daniher is the GOAT.

Lel, whatever makes you sleep at night. Many of your cohorts seemed to think greatness was destined for this group of Blues but it’s nothing more than another false dawn.

Happy enough with how our team is travelling this year. As a Blues fan, you must be thrilled with the season thus far? I mean another commendable loss is ok, right?


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[Soapy V]

When we sacked Bolton we kept the same assistants which we still have.

Why and Who’s our tactical guru?