Expansion Where do GC and GWS stand when compared to other expansion teams?

[Matchu]

First finals appearance
West Coast - 2 years (1988)
Adelaide - 3 years (1993)
Port Adelaide - 3 years (1999)
GWS - 5 years (2016)
Brisbane Bears - 9 years (1995)
Fremantle - 9 years (2003)

First top 4 finish
West Coast - 2 years (1988)
GWS - 5 years (2016)
Port Adelaide - 5 years (2001)
Adelaide - 7 years (1997)
Brisbane Bears - 10 years (1996)
Fremantle - 12 years (2006)

First preliminary final
Adelaide - 3 years (1993)
West Coast - 4 years (1990)
GWS - 5 years (2016)
Port Adelaide - 6 years (2002)
Brisbane Bears - 10 years (1996)
Fremantle - 12 years (2006)

First grand final
West Coast - 5 years (1991)
Adelaide - 7 years (1997)
Port Adelaide - 8 years (2004)
Fremantle - 19 years (2013)

First Premiership
West Coast - 6 years (1992)
Adelaide - 7 years (1997)
Port Adelaide - 8 years (2004)

West Coast are the benchmark in most regards but GWS actually match up quite well when you compare them to every other expansion team, particularly if they win tomorrow. The Giants have the opportunity this year to tie West Coast for the quickest premiership won by an expansion side. As for the Suns, they have only have a couple more years before they start falling into Freo/Bears territory so they'll want to make the finals soon.

It's also worth noting that the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions are exceptions when it comes to expansion teams because they were extensions of existing teams. This is how they stack up:

Sydney Swans
First finals appearance - 5 years (1986)
First top 4 appearance - 5 years (1986)
First preliminary final - 15 years (1996)
First grand final - 15 years (1996)
First premiership - 24 years (2005)

Brisbane Lions
First finals appearance - 1 year (1997)
First top 4 appearance - 3 years (1999)
First preliminary final - 3 years (1999)
First grand final - 5 years (2001)
First premiership - 5 years (2001)

 

[freo_leo29]

I love that you gave us a premiership but you may want to check the records

 

[Damon_3388]

Aside from GC, I feel the outcomes are pretty reflective of the talent on each club's inaugural lists.

 

[Matchu]

I love that you gave us a premiership but you may want to check the records

My mistake. OP fixed now.

 

[Matchu]

Aside from GC, I feel the outcomes are pretty reflective of the talent on each club's inaugural lists.

That's probably fair. I think in the near future people will likely say West Coast and GWS were blessed with the strongest lists when compared to other start up expansion sides.

 

[maskmcgee]

West Coast and Adelaide both got 100% of players in those states for 2 years, making them unbeatable.

 

[Roylion]

It's also worth noting that the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions are exceptions when it comes to expansion teams because they were extensions of existing teams.

The Brisbane Lions' first finals appearance was in 1995. 1997 was their third finals appearance.

 

[happy_knackers]

Crows first prelim in 93

 

[Garry Barry]

They are all so different startup models.

WC and Adelaide were basically state teams.
Port and freo were built from WAFL/SANFL base.
Sydney and lions were relocated Melbourne teams.
Bears were made up of club rejects.
GC and GWS are built by draft picks.

Impossible to compare.

 

[sobrave]

A good try but all your stats are completely wrong.

 

[kickazz]

Hawthorn took 36 years to get their first flag.
North took 50 years.
Bulldogs took 29 years to get one, then another 62 years for a second.


I know we are less patient these days with expansion clubs, but some perspective......

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

The Brisbane Lions' first finals appearance was in 1995. 1997 was their third finals appearance.

I was at the game at the Gabba when you qualified for your first finals appearance. Roger Merrett and co. Place was going off. Was stoked for them, even as a neutral.

That was before the arrogance set in a few years later...

 

[Roylion]

Sydney and lions were relocated Melbourne teams.
Bears were made up of club rejects.
.

Only Sydney was a relocated Melbourne team. Brisbane Bears/Lions began in 1987 with a combination of rejects from other clubs sprinkled with a number of purchased stars such as Geoff Raines ($80,000), Mark Williams ($110,000), Roger Merrett ($60,000), Warwick Capper ($420,000) and Brad Hardie ($270,000).

 

[Kwality]

Only the Brisbane Bears could be compared with the Suns & the Giants.

 

[Kwality]

They are all so different startup models.

WC and Adelaide were basically state teams.
Port and freo were built from WAFL/SANFL base.
Sydney and lions were relocated Melbourne teams.
Bears were made up of club rejects.
GC and GWS are built by draft picks.

Impossible to compare.

Motherhood statements reflecting a really shallow knowledge.
For example, whats a basically state team - Subi were the last full strength WAFL premier & 7 went to the Eagles squad for 1987 - 7 was the max from any club, another was signed by Melbourne. Other players like Darren Bewick had already been picked up by VFL clubs.

 

[Matchu]

They are all so different startup models.

WC and Adelaide were basically state teams.
Port and freo were built from WAFL/SANFL base.
Sydney and lions were relocated Melbourne teams.
Bears were made up of club rejects.
GC and GWS are built by draft picks.

Impossible to compare.

With the exception of the Swans, all expansion clubs that have gone on to reach success at the highest level seem to have been guided there by local talent that were often developed by the club into superstars. Think about it:

West Coast - Worsfold, Mainwaring, Jakovich, Sumich etc.
Adelaide - D.Jarman, Ricciuto, Modra etc.
Brisbane - Voss, Akermanis, Michael etc.
Port Adelaide - Wanganeen, Tredrea, Cornes etc.

Will this be the case at GWS with their first premiership? Probably not given the amount of high draft picks they have on their list and how few NSW players are drafted in the first round each year. But what should be pointed out is that 30% of the current GWS list hails from NSW and although most of them are pretty young and still playing in the reserves, they will eventually push the older players out of the team and GWS will look more like a team made up of locals going forward. Gold Coast are starting to draft and develop locals into AFL standard players as well so I expect them to follow a similar path in the future.

The Brisbane Lions' first finals appearance was in 1995. 1997 was their third finals appearance.

I see the Brisbane Bears and the Brisbane Lions as two separate clubs. However, the inaugural Brisbane Lions' list was very much made up of mostly Bears. That's why I put them in the exception category because they didn't begin in a similar fashion to other expansion clubs. BBFFC was established in 1996.

 

[Roylion]

I see the Brisbane Bears and the Brisbane Lions as two separate clubs. However, the inaugural Brisbane Lions' list was very much made up of mostly Bears.

That's because they are the same club. Only Fitzroy players gained through AFL concessions had to sign new contracts to join the Brisbane Bears / Lions. Brisbane Bears players didn't because they were already contracted to the same club. All the Bears did was rebrand their club.

BBFFC was established in 1996.

BBFFC was established in 1987 as the BBFC. Only Brisbane Bears members voted to change the name of their existing club to BBFFC which continued on in the same competition with the very same licence.

 

[TommyD13]

I honestly think GWS and Gold Coast should have been given the following:
-a senior list of 40 players, 4 rookies and up to three category b rookies, and also the same salary cap as every other club
- the senior list can be filled by the following, as many current AFL players as they please, access to NEAFL players unaligned to AFL clubs the top pick in each round of the draft the year before they enter to fill as many spots as need be.
- rookie list filled in the rookie draft with the top pick in the first four rounds.
- can sign cat b rookies like everyone else

 

[Matchu]

That's because they are the same club. Only Fitzroy players gained through AFL concessions had to sign new contracts to join the Brisbane Bears / Lions. Brisbane Bears players didn't because they were already contracted to the same club. All the Bears did was rebrand their club.

BBFFC was established in 1987 as the BBFC. Only Brisbane Bears members voted to change the name of their existing club to BBFFC which continued on in the same competition with the very same licence.

I don't agree. I see them as three separate clubs - FFC (est. 1883), BBFC (est. 1986) and BBFFC (est. 1996). It was a merger of two existing clubs to create a new third club.

 

[Roylion]

I don't agree. I see them as three separate clubs - FFC (est. 1883), BBFC (est. 1986) and BBFFC (est. 1996). It was a merger of two existing clubs to create a new third club.

That's incorrect. It's certainly not the legal situation. As was confirmed in 2010 in the Supreme Court of Victoria.

When was the Port Adelaide Football Club formed? 1870 or 1997?

 

[Matchu]

That's incorrect. It's certainly not the legal situation. As was confirmed in 2010 in the Supreme Court of Victoria.

When was the Port Adelaide Football Club formed? 1870 or 1997?

PAFC (1870-present) never changed its trading name. However, PAMFC was established in 1997 and existed as a separate entity until the merger in 2010.

How did the Supreme Court of Victoria view Brisbane's situation in 2010?

 

[Donakebab]

It's almost as if you didn't fact check anything before posting.

 

[Matchu]

It's almost as if you didn't fact check anything before posting.

What did I miss?

 

[Rotayjay]

Creating new teams to up the value of the TV rights and wondering what concessions you should give them to strike a balance between instant success and Bears/Freo territory

 

[Colonial]

Creating new teams to up the value of the TV rights and wondering what concessions you should give them to strike a balance between instant success and Bears/Freo territory

We blush

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