Racing Where does Winx now sit in Hall of fame

[iluvparis]

Have to ask the question how far in front of Might & Power, Saintly etc are the likes of Phar Lap, Carbine, Ajax, Kingston Town?

Timeform in pounds - generally assume 1.5-2 pounds per length - too recent for Carbine/Ajax

Order Horse TFE
1 Phar Lap 141
2 Bernborough 138
2 Tulloch 138
4 Peter Pan 137
4 Kingston Town 137
6 Todman 136
6 Vain 136
6 Manikato 136
6 Black Caviar 136
10 Chatham 135
10 Tobin Bronze 135
10 Better Loosen Up 135
13 Galilee 134
14 Might and Power 133
14 So You Think 133
14 Gunsynd 133
17 Lankan Rupee 132
17 Hay List 132
19 Strawberry Road 130
19 Weekend Hussler 130
19 Dunaden 130
22 Dundeel 129
22 All Too Hard 129
22 Americain 129
22 Dulcify 129
22 Placid Ark 129
22 Northerly 129
22 Sunline 129
22 Sepoy 129
22 Makybe Diva 129
22 Divide And Rule 129
22 Century 129
33 Grand Armee 128
33 Atlantic Jewel 128
33 Taj Rossi 128
33 Beau Zam 128
33 Bonecrusher 128
33 Saintly 128

 

[AvantGardener]

Timeform in pounds - generally assume 1.5-2 pounds per length - too recent for Carbine/Ajax

Order Horse TFE
1 Phar Lap 141
2 Bernborough 138
2 Tulloch 138
4 Peter Pan 137
4 Kingston Town 137
6 Todman 136
6 Vain 136
6 Manikato 136
6 Black Caviar 136
10 Chatham 135
10 Tobin Bronze 135
10 Better Loosen Up 135
13 Galilee 134
14 Might and Power 133
14 So You Think 133
14 Gunsynd 133
17 Lankan Rupee 132
17 Hay List 132
19 Strawberry Road 130
19 Weekend Hussler 130
19 Dunaden 130
22 Dundeel 129
22 All Too Hard 129
22 Americain 129
22 Dulcify 129
22 Placid Ark 129
22 Northerly 129
22 Sunline 129
22 Sepoy 129
22 Makybe Diva 129
22 Divide And Rule 129
22 Century 129
33 Grand Armee 128
33 Atlantic Jewel 128
33 Taj Rossi 128
33 Beau Zam 128
33 Bonecrusher 128
33 Saintly 128

Are you suggesting Timeform ratings have some basis? Seems peculiar given your shunning of All Too Hard and Dundeel as better opposition than Winx is currently facing yet there they are with Sunline, Northerly and Makybe Diva.
So Winx gets 142 rating or higher does she? She's 6 rating points higher than Black Caviar? Oh dear.

 

[iluvparis]

Are you suggesting Timeform ratings have some basis? Seems peculiar given your shunning of All Too Hard and Dundeel as better opposition than Winx is currently facing yet there they are with Sunline, Northerly and Makybe Diva.
So Winx gets 142 rating or higher does she? She's 6 rating points higher than Black Caviar? Oh dear.

They always overrate 3yos (see latest crop) and are based on peak performances rather than consistency. I'm just providing a neutral benchmark.

They currently have Winx 134 for what its worth

 

[AvantGardener]

They always overrate 3yos (see latest crop) and are based on peak performances rather than consistency. I'm just providing a neutral benchmark.

They currently have Winx 134 for what its worth

ATH and Dundeel peak rating wouldn't have been as 3yos.
So Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town and others are rated above her?

 

[iluvparis]

How I'd rate those above I've seen


Black Caviar 136
Winx 135
So You Think 134
Might and Power 132
Saintly 132
Northerly 132
Sunline 131
Makye Diva 130
Hay List 130
Dundeel 128
Atlantic Jewell 128
Americain 127
Dunaden 127
Grand Armee 127
Lankan Rupee 127
All Too Hard 126
Weekend Hussler 125
Sepoy 125

 

[AvantGardener]

How I'd rate those above I've seen


Black Caviar 136
Winx 135
So You Think 134
Might and Power 132
Saintly 132
Northerly 132
Sunline 131
Makye Diva 130
Hay List 130
Dundeel 128
Atlantic Jewell 128
Americain 127
Dunaden 127
Grand Armee 127
Lankan Rupee 127
All Too Hard 126
Weekend Hussler 125
Sepoy 125

So you have Black Caviar ahead of Winx? And by leaving out the older brigade I take it you accept you are unable to properly judge Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town???

 

[iluvparis]

ATH and Dundeel peak rating wouldn't have been as 3yos.
So Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town and others are rated above her?

Lel

Retired at 3 - please try harder

Yes - those horses are rated above her.

 

[iluvparis]

So you have Black Caviar ahead of Winx? And by leaving out the older brigade I take it you accept you are unable to properly judge Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town???

Yes and yes

 

[AvantGardener]

Lel

Retired at 3 - please try harder

Yes - those horses are rated above her.

Ah yes true, Dundeel raced on though.

Yes and yes

Then why are so disapproving and arguing with people saying she is one of many champions rather than the GOAT?

 

[iluvparis]

Ah yes true, Dundeel raced on though.


Then why are so disapproving and arguing with people saying she is one of many champions rather than the GOAT?

Because you didn't put up those horses - you put up horses from the 90s/00s that I think are clearly inferior to her.

 

[Lebbo73]

How I'd rate those above I've seen


Black Caviar 136
Winx 135
So You Think 134
Might and Power 132
Saintly 132
Northerly 132
Sunline 131
Makye Diva 130
Hay List 130
Dundeel 128
Atlantic Jewell 128
Americain 127
Dunaden 127
Grand Armee 127
Lankan Rupee 127
All Too Hard 126
Weekend Hussler 125
Sepoy 125

Winx is better than Black Caviar. This is coming from someone that would have boofed BC if the opportunity arose. BC was the greatest sprinter I have ever seen. Winx is a better all round horse.

 

[iluvparis]

Winx is better than Black Caviar. This is coming from someone that would have boofed BC if the opportunity arose. BC was the greatest sprinter I have ever seen. Winx is a better all round horse.

Hard to find fault in a horse that never lost

 

[RobbyRoy]

Winx vs Might and Power "on his day" would've been awesome. But I suspect he mightve just set it up for her to storm over the top and look amazing.

 

[Lebbo73]

Hard to find fault in a horse that never lost

I am not trying to find faults in BC. I love the thing and still believe to this day that she beats Frankel up to 1500m. However, the fact is that Winx has the runs on the board from 1400m to 2000m.

 

[HeathySure]

Did Alcopop win at Royal Ascot?

whats your obsession with Ascot? no one except hte poms gives a rats arse. If the pommy horses were fair dinkum they would travel to Japan for the prize money but you know what would happen? half of them would break down cos the tracks were too hard and most of the other half would finish tailed off because the pace would be frenetic.
English racing is rubbish, the prize money is s**t, the fields are small in the supposed good staying races and your precious pacemakers just mean the races are rigged

 

[HeathySure]

y

Utter dogshit from you as always - plenty of them tried and failed, others had every opportunity to race there in their 3yo autumns at a minimum but were too soft and stuck to their squib 12-1600m races

And a faster pace would just have Winx winning her races by further - unless you missed last years Cox Plate where the French horse went mad in front and Winx still took off 600 out and slaughtered them. She won the previous Cox Plate by 5 and you say it was down to bias.

Please stop and move on to a forum where you actually have a clue.

you really dont read what i say do you.
come to me when you make a profit on the punt

 

[HeathySure]

300 years of thoroughbred history says no

right. so you are quoting history now. after saying historically horses are s**t
ok

 

[HeathySure]

To be fair I do tend to think Might & Power is a tad overrated

right.
when Winx leads all the way in a Melbourne Cup then come to me

 

[Jugada]

 

[HeathySure]

Winx vs Might and Power "on his day" would've been awesome. But I suspect he mightve just set it up for her to storm over the top and look amazing.

big difference for horses finishing off, on a relentless pace rather than a sit and sprint, For what its worth i think Winx might beat him marginally but she will find it much much tougher getting past him than the walkers she is meeting now, same if she met Northerly at his best

 

[HeathySure]

How I'd rate those above I've seen


Black Caviar 136
Winx 135
So You Think 134
Might and Power 132
Saintly 132
Northerly 132
Sunline 131
Makye Diva 130
Hay List 130
Dundeel 128
Atlantic Jewell 128
Americain 127
Dunaden 127
Grand Armee 127
Lankan Rupee 127
All Too Hard 126
Weekend Hussler 125
Sepoy 125

you have just rated the overated horse might and power 4th on the list that you have seen.... like to see something underrated...

 

[iluvparis]

I am not trying to find faults in BC. I love the thing and still believe to this day that she beats Frankel up to 1500m. However, the fact is that Winx has the runs on the board from 1400m to 2000m.

On that basis you are saying Winx beats Frankel at 1600 which is frankly insane - that's why I think BC > Winx (just)

 

[iluvparis]

whats your obsession with Ascot? no one except hte poms gives a rats arse. If the pommy horses were fair dinkum they would travel to Japan for the prize money but you know what would happen? half of them would break down cos the tracks were too hard and most of the other half would finish tailed off because the pace would be frenetic.
English racing is rubbish, the prize money is s**t, the fields are small in the supposed good staying races and your precious pacemakers just mean the races are rigged

So rubbish the Japanese get belted there every time they turn up.

 

[iluvparis]

right.
when Winx leads all the way in a Melbourne Cup then come to me

When Might & Power wins a Warwick Stakes come to me

 

[iluvparis]

you have just rated the overated horse might and power 4th on the list that you have seen.... like to see something underrated...

As you repeatedly fail to comprehend - these are peak ratings - and I've already said M&P's peaks were up there with the best of them. He just wasn't that consistent.

Underrated would be Saintly who I boosted 4 pounds on his timeform rating.